Trouble with boom, Boomkicker compatibility

[centerline]

the lefiell mast and boom on my boat is equipped with a gooseneck that swivels, such as you would have on a boom roller reefing setup.... but it does NOT roller reef (it has slab reefing)

the Boom is an L-104 extrusion which is oblong shaped 3.5"x 6.25"...

the problem is the boom kicker, in an attempt to hold the boom up and balanced from below, will allow the boom to swivel and fall off the side of the boomkicker and lay sideways on the fouled boomkicker.
even when I hoist the boom with the topping lift, the kicker keeps the boom twisted as long as it has any load on it

the only way I can see to prevent this is to get a fixed gooseneck so the boom cant twist over, or weld this one in a fixed position.

im sure the swivel action was meant to supply a better foil when the sail fills and pulls, but with the boomkicker its a real pain in the butt and neither action is able to do its job properly.

this boat is my first experience with a boom kicker and so far it has left me with a sense that if this is the norm, then boom kickers are in no way as good or as versatile as a topping lift on a heavy boom. (to be honest, my sense tells me its a useless piece of equipment only invented to aggravate a situation that would be better left for another type of control device to handle)

im open to suggestions, as I could very well be missing a piece of the puzzle somewhere that would allow it all to work together like i think it should.... thanks

 

[Joe]

Re: trouble with boom, boomkicker

Should be something here. http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/SparParts/Gooseneck_toggles.html

 

[hewebb]

Re: trouble with boom, boomkicker

Without a photo of the gooseneck it is tough to suggest anything as I am not familiar with one that swivels. Joes suggestion is probably a good one if you can get one that will work.

Would it be possible to drill a hole and pin the swivel?

 

[agprice22]

I have boomkickers on two boats, C22 and C14.2. They both work wonderfully. Neither boat has a swivel gooseneck. I like it in comparison to the topping lift on my Oday 272, which requires setting after I raise the sail and before I lower the sail. I haven't found any advantage to the topping lift over the boomkicker. Well, it does keep the area between the base of the mast and the boom a little less cluttered. Could you give a picture of the current gooseneck? Could you also try mounting a small pin from the base of the boom, below the gooseneck, into the sail track on the mast? This would allow you to keep the gooseneck and still stop it from swivelling.
Thanks, Andrew

 

[Ted]

Trouble with Boomkicker

The Boomkicker is a great piece of hardware. I've been using them for over 15 years with no problems. As you are suggesting, it sounds like your specific gooseneck design may be causing the issues you are experiencing. Photos of your gooseneck and Boomkicker installation would be helpful. Don't blame the Boomkicker for your problems. Your application is not typical so you may have to make some modifications for it to work as intended. Prevent the boom from rotating and you'll be in good shape or go back to the topping lift.

 

[centerline]

Without a photo of the gooseneck it is tough to suggest anything as I am not familiar with one that swivels. Joes suggestion is probably a good one if you can get one that will work.

Would it be possible to drill a hole and pin the swivel?

I do have a couple of pictures of the gooseneck... the boom kicker is mounted in the usual way, just like on other boats...
im not sure what I will find if I pull the gooseneck apparatus out of the boom... it may have a hole there to pin it in a fixed position which would solve the immediate issue, if it doesnt create others.
I dont have enough experience with it all to even know what all the hooks, gadgets and 3 winches mounted on the mast are for (1 port, 2 starboard)....or even all the lines coming out of holes in the mast and boom... somethings may be a mystery for a long time yet but in an attempt to learn and remember what they are all for will probably keep me from getting bored with it.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Re: trouble with boom, boomkicker

It seems to me that a boomkicker wouldn't be intended for a swiveling boom. What is the purpose of a swiveling boom if you don't furl or reef the main on it? Does that cylinder-looking pin actually swivel inside the end of the boom?

I would imagine the 3 winches are for 3 halyards. Main on stb., headsail on port and spinnaker on stb. The hooks (rams horns) are for the reefing grommets. It looks like you have 4 lines exiting the mast end of the boom. I suppose 2 would be for reefing lines, and 1 would be an outhaul. Not sure what another line would be used for.

You can install blocks at the base of the mast and lead lines aft via deck organizers if you want to clean up some of the clutter at the mast. That could get expensive if you have to add winches at the coach roof and clutches.

 

[centerline]

It seems to me that a boomkicker wouldn't be intended for a swiveling boom. What is the purpose of a swiveling boom if you don't furl or reef the main on it? Does that cylinder-looking pin actually swivel inside the end of the boom?

I would imagine the 3 winches are for 3 halyards. Main on stb., headsail on port and spinnaker on stb. The hooks (rams horns) are for the reefing grommets. It looks like you have 4 lines exiting the mast end of the boom. I suppose 2 would be for reefing lines, and 1 would be an outhaul. Not sure what another line would be used for.

You can install blocks at the base of the mast and lead lines aft via deck organizers if you want to clean up some of the clutter at the mast. That could get expensive if you have to add winches at the coach roof and clutches.

Scott, the boom actually does swivel on the "pin" where it goes in to the boom. and like you, im not sure why it would need to swivel, ever.

the extra line exiting the fore end of the boom seems to be a downhaul for the leech of the sail.
there is an extra grommet 8" above the clew on the leech where the line hooks to it with a shackle... not sure why its there... the sails all have leech lines in them to trim the flutter away..
when I got the boat, it was rigged with the foot of the sail in the boom track, but the guy at the sail loft said I would get better performance running it loose footed. (not that I could ever tell with my limited trimming skills)
so when I put the sails back on, I rigged all the lines like they were, only without threading the sail in the boom track.

turning blocks at the mast may be in order eventually, but the cabintop already has two winches (an ST and a non-ST) on both sides, in addition to the gunwhale winches...

the cabintop clutches, 3 each side, are already full of lines, so more clutches would be needed in addition to the turning blocks.

but as long as I dont try to singlehand the boat, its no problem for me at all to have the crew raise the sails from the mast

 

[Terry in Naples]

After reading this it seems to me if you threaded the sail into the boom and forget about the loose footed system you would solve your rotating problem. The tension on the sail will hold the boom in a vertical position. I have a boom kicker and it runs from the base of the mast to,a slide (track) along the bottom of the boom. I do not see this in your pictures.

 

[centerline]

After reading this it seems to me if you threaded the sail into the boom and forget about the loose footed system you would solve your rotating problem. The tension on the sail will hold the boom in a vertical position. I have a boom kicker and it runs from the base of the mast to,a slide (track) along the bottom of the boom. I do not see this in your pictures.

without the boomkicker installed and when the sail is inserted in the boom track and it fills with wind, it pulls the boom sideways with the foot of the sail... that is my only reasoning for thinking that it may be designed to do that with the sail and become part of the foil, in the same way a rotating mast acts like part of the foil.....

the tack of my sail connects to the gooseneck and not the boom, so the halyard pulling on it does nothing for, or to, the boom.

and as I have said, the boom kicker is attached in the usual manner as it is on all other boats.... so i didnt feel there was a need to include a photo of it here. (actually, at the time these photos were taken, the boomkicker was removed from the application, which is the reason the boom is in its semi-normal, upright position.)

 

[agprice22]

Have you opened the end of the boom to see how that pin attaches inside? Your answer might be in there. Perhaps you will find a way to attach a plate inside that will lock the swivel in place.

Thanks.
Andrew

 

[Davidasailor26]

I agree with others that there's no reason for such a boom to rotate. I don't see any advantage in sail shape from such a motion. Pin it, weld it, replace the gooseneck or otherwise fix that. The boom kicker should really only be carrying the weight of the boom when the sail is down and possibly in very light wind. Otherwise, you want the boom held down by at least it's own weight, and depending on the conditions also held down by mainsheet and tension on the kicker. Holding the boom up with a topping lift or kicker when under sail will usually give you too much sail twist and a generally inefficient shape. The cringle you mentioned 8" up on the leech of the sail is likely for a reefing line, and there should be a cringle on the luff at about the same height which will go around one of the horns at the gooseneck to reef. With regard to the loose foot trimming of the main - is there a slug near the clew that stays in the sail track? Every loose footed sail I've seen has a slug there to keep the clew close to the boom, and trying to loose foot a sail without one would likely chafe the outhaul and be difficult to trim nicely.

 

[Joe]

Re: trouble with boom, boomkicker

There is no aerodynamic advantage to the boom rotating with the sail, especially since your are using a loose foot main. I would try to find a boom end fitting to fit your gooseneck that will stabilize the boom.

Here's another idea. Ask Hunter customer service for their thoughts. Their may be a retrofit or conversion available from them.

 

[Jackdaw]

A rolling boom was designed to allow roller furling of the main around the boom. No other reason. It was not a great idea, caused other problems (like the one you have) and stopped being offered about the time Carter was president.

Like any rigid vang, a boomkicker cannot be used with a rolling boom. It says so in the the manual.