Trouble sailing up wind in 20 knot wind.

[Reidsair]

I'm having trouble getting my Mac 26S to point to the wind if the wind builds. Tiller hard a lee and I'm just hove to, drifting to a lee shore. I've had to fire up the motor to rescue myself.

15 knots and less and the boat points quite well. Stronger wind and the the boat slows, I lose rudder authority and the bow blows off the wind. Then I can build speed and start heading back up.

I'm not sure the boat is balanced as it should be. It always wants to blow off the wind. I thought I would have to use light pressure on the tiller to keep it from heading into the wind and stopping in irons. This would be handy if I went overboard while single handing, but I think she would turn downwind and leave me in her wake.

What is the normal technique for keeping off a lee shore in stronger wind?

 

[kappykaplan]

Are you reefing the main in those conditions? Sounds like you're over-powered.

 

[Reidsair]

I only have one reef. I had it in. I tried taking the main down and sailing on jib alone; the trouble got worse. I bought a smaller head sail, a storm jib for some other model. It's about half of the original jib, and I rigged it a couple feet off the deck. I tried to sail last week with the storm jib alone in 30 knots. Thank God for the motor!

 

[Jackdaw]

15 knots and less and the boat points quite well. Stronger wind and the the boat slows,

This is the key. The boat should not slow. Tell us about the size, shape and condition of your sails, and anything you to do shape them in the bigger breeze.

 

[Chief RA]

Small rudder coupled with a small keel will limit what it can do upwind. Chief

 

[Reidsair]

Perhaps I've not flattened my sails as much as I should for the stronger winds. Lake sailing means constantly changing winds. It seems I spend most of my time trying to squeeze more out a light breeze. I do ease the sheets when I start blowing off the wind. It seems as if there is a lot of sideways force on the bow. all of my energy is being eaten up overcoming this side force

 

[Reidsair]

I does feel like a small rudder, but the rudder won't do much with more forward motion. It slows to 1 to 2 knots before it starts heading off, even with full rudder

 

[Reidsair]

Chief, when you say upwind is limited, is this in all wind conditions? It points really well in lighter winds

 

[Reidsair]

I does feel like a small rudder, but the rudder won't do much with more forward motion. It slows to 1 to 2 knots before it starts heading off, even with full rudder

it won't do much without more forward motion

 

[Kings Gambit]

I'm having trouble getting my Mac 26S to point to the wind if the wind builds. Tiller hard a lee and I'm just hove to, drifting to a lee shore. I've had to fire up the motor to rescue myself.

15 knots and less and the boat points quite well. Stronger wind and the the boat slows, I lose rudder authority and the bow blows off the wind. Then I can build speed and start heading back up.

I'm not sure the boat is balanced as it should be. It always wants to blow off the wind. I thought I would have to use light pressure on the tiller to keep it from heading into the wind and stopping in irons. This would be handy if I went overboard while single handing, but I think she would turn downwind and leave me in her wake.

What is the normal technique for keeping off a lee shore in stronger wind?

Sounds like a problem w/ lee helm. Evidently, this has been reported prior on Mac26S's. See link below for discussion elsewhere.

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=23015

 

[Reidsair]

Thanks Gambit, that was just the info I needed. I think Jackdaw found the key here. I don't believe that my main is in good enough shape to lay as flat as it needs to be in a breeze. So now my next question, and I believe it's related to the op. How do you know if your main is blown out? I bought the boat used and don't have new condition to compare. Would it be a telling symptom if the sail works great in lighter wind and creates lee helm in higher wind?

 

[Kings Gambit]

Thanks Gambit, that was just the info I needed. I think Jackdaw found the key here. I don't believe that my main is in good enough shape to lay as flat as it needs to be in a breeze. So now my next question, and I believe it's related to the op. How do you know if your main is blown out? I bought the boat used and don't have new condition to compare. Would it be a telling symptom if the sail works great in lighter wind and creates lee helm in higher wind?

To stop lee helm, the center of effort [pressure center of the sails) for the boat has to move aft of the center of lateral resistance. Normally, that imaginary "spot" would be in the mainsail more toward the luff. If the mainsail is blown out, its draft would "sag" aft, increasing weather helm, not lee helm. I don't know much about Macs; but if there is someway to rake the mast more aft that might be your first and easiest attempt. That should pull the CE more aft and neutralize the lee helm effect, IF that's your problem here. The other thing might be to go to a smaller jib. Also you might investigate to see that the rig has not been altered with a shorter boom.

 

[crpdm]

Is your center board in the full down and locked position? If its raised slightly, the center of effort will move aft and contribute to lee helm.

 

[Knuttle]

Assuming the wind is blowing on shore more or less perpendicular to the shore

To me it sounds like you are have the sails (Boom) pulled in to far. Unless you are in a channel and the wind is coming stairght down the channel you have some room to move to the right or left. Let the sails out until the boat starts to move, then as you develop a little speed slowly pull the sails keeping the speed and work until you clear the shore. If you have the space you may even go on to a broad reach until you have some momentum.

In the situation you describe the most important thing is get the boat out of danger, not if the sail is shaped perfectly, or is in the boom is in the position you normal sail under normal conditions. At some point as you let the sail out the boat will start moving

Don't panic and do what it takes to get the boat moving and get some steerage way.

Just remember that boats under sail traveled around the world and into all possible situations WITHOUT a motor. Learn to make the best use of the wind, and you to can get out of any situation with out the motor.

I have found that boat for boat, I could usually out sail any boat with a motor. With a motor they never really learned to control their boat under sail, hence I always had the advantage.

 

[willsnow]

I'm having trouble getting my Mac 26S to point to the wind if the wind builds. Tiller hard a lee and I'm just hove to, drifting to a lee shore. I've had to fire up the motor to rescue myself.

15 knots and less and the boat points quite well. Stronger wind and the the boat slows, I lose rudder authority and the bow blows off the wind. Then I can build speed and start heading back up.

I'm not sure the boat is balanced as it should be. It always wants to blow off the wind. I thought I would have to use light pressure on the tiller to keep it from heading into the wind and stopping in irons. This would be handy if I went overboard while single handing, but I think she would turn downwind and leave me in her wake.

What is the normal technique for keeping off a lee shore in stronger wind?

I think my main is pretty bagged out, its the original 26 year old sail, but I can still point fairly high... Though I bought my boat with the IdaSailor HDPE rudder and that may be the reason I can still point. Also, if you've got an adjustable backstay, tightening or loosening that will do a lot to balance your main vs head sail. And whenever I get crazy weather helm, it's because I didn't lock the rudder in the straight down position, maybe check that.

 

[Reidsair]

Well I was pretty comfortable thinking it was a blown out mainsail. . . and not my ineptitude, but now I'm starting to wonder. It points really well in lighter air, and makes good speed. I intentionally went out in strong winds because I want to be able to sail in whatever gets handed me. Lake sailing makes it convenient to be able to try to master 30 knot wind with only 1 foot waves. If I had more waves to deal with, I would have been taking them broadside; probably not a good thing. I wasn't really in danger because I could come off the wind and regain control reaching parallel to the lee shore. I spent more than an hour zigging and zagging, but not making headway off the shore. I won't have much confidence in my sailing ability until I can do better than this.
I believe the rudder was down and locked. I've had it raise slightly before and the force on the tiller is very noticeable. The tiller felt fine.
I had on a smaller headsail. It wasn't made for this boat, but felt like a pretty good fit for a craigslist find. It's about 50 percent of the standard jib and fairly heavy cloth. Perhaps I should have sheeted it through the forward fair leads, but the tack was up pretty high, so I ran it outside the lifelines. This kept me from being able to sheet in as close as I needed to. That would be at least part of the problem, no?
I have the mast raked back, but possibly not the right way. I lengthened the headstay and shortened the backstay without adjusting the sidestays. This gave me a pretty dramatic bend starting at the spreaders, but didn't move the lower half of the mast aft at all. Is this "mast raking"?
Lastly, I don't know where my keel is stopping. I release the rope from the cleat and the rope slips away into the sink base cabinet. I assume it's going all the way down. I have the boat in a slip and the water is still cold for a boy with no wet suit. Is there a way to hear or feel it hit full travel? It swallowed the rope to the stopper knot; is that a sign that it went all the way?
I do appreciate you guys helping me with this. I would like some day to trade my motor for a sculling oar, but not if I can't faithfully sail to weather.

 

[Tsatzsue]

The one thing about Old but still pretty V25 is the fact that I can adjust the keel angle with the winch while sailing. I have yet to lock it down. I am convinced that the ocean in New England is more shallow than not. I trim my keel to adjust for my pointing and sail trim and after several tries weather helm is virtually eliminated.

As far as locking it down the previous owner had done just that when he hit a rock and tore an arc in the trunk. The boat flooded to the floatation in 5 minutes. He had to be towed in for miles. If it wasn't for the floatation the boat would have been lost. I replaced my winch with the 1200# model and had a professional rigger (they specialize in big industrial crane rigging and hooked me up) make new cables. One for spare. All hardware checked each year. I have all the hardware to lock just never have. In fact I made a set up out of nylon threaded rod and nylon lock washers with gaskets and have never used them.

 

[Erik V]

30 knots = main and head sail shortened, out haul, main halyard and back stay tightened up. Trimming sails makes all the difference. Play with the keel position and keep her on her feet 15-20 deg of heel with rail meet all on the high side. You will be flying and having a great time. One more thing shorten sail before leaving home.

 

[Doc_holiday]

If you are using a smaller jib, you need to make sure your sheets are inside the shrouds or you can't get any traction (toward close). If it's a roller, you may have to figure out about how much reefing before you switch from outside to in.

Also, if you have lazy jacks, make sure they aren't deployed, preventing the main sail from shaping