I asked them (as a comparison to another 6V I'm considering) that their batteries are good for 600 or so cycles. Here's what got me: they said that, in the lab when they test for the number of cycles, they test for a 100% discharge and then charge them back. 100% discharge? Does this sound right to you? Also, I'd be interested in a quick survey. How many years have you gotten out of your wet-cell batteries? Thanks.
Trojan (golf cart batteries) told me this...
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Five Years
I have Golf Carts (Trojan T-125's). They are my second set of golf carts. The first (non-Trojan) lasted for three years. I equalize them several times a year and utilize a three stage charger and regulator. The Trojans seem OK and still have adequate capasity. My battery history is three-five years for wet-cells. These Trojans seem to be doing better. (BTW, the boat is in the water year round and I have a seven-amp average draw from the refrig and freezer compressors which run full time. This may be a big difference in longevity.) I think part of the issue is how much capasity reduction you are willing to live with before replacing them. If the battery just tanks, it's an easier decision. Rick D.
I have Golf Carts (Trojan T-125's). They are my second set of golf carts. The first (non-Trojan) lasted for three years. I equalize them several times a year and utilize a three stage charger and regulator. The Trojans seem OK and still have adequate capasity. My battery history is three-five years for wet-cells. These Trojans seem to be doing better. (BTW, the boat is in the water year round and I have a seven-amp average draw from the refrig and freezer compressors which run full time. This may be a big difference in longevity.) I think part of the issue is how much capasity reduction you are willing to live with before replacing them. If the battery just tanks, it's an easier decision. Rick D.
Trey,
I don't doubt that what they told you is true. After all, these batteries are for Golf Carts. How much juice could be left after 18 holes? And mine are just fine after 6 years. They are my third set and the first to be properly maintained. Don't ask. It wasn't my fault.
I don't doubt that what they told you is true. After all, these batteries are for Golf Carts. How much juice could be left after 18 holes? And mine are just fine after 6 years. They are my third set and the first to be properly maintained. Don't ask. It wasn't my fault.
I found out about these in the Bahamas
I found out about how great these Trojan 6volt golf cart batteries while in the Bahamas. When my two 8D batteries died in Green Turtle Cay I needed replacements. The local Golf course replaced their batteries in the carts every three years. I asked if I could get their old batteries which I saw sitting around. I was given 6 of these old batteries. They lasted 5 years so the total life was 8 years. I replaced them after the 5 years with brand new ones and 10 years later they where still doing the job. Best batteries I have ever owned period.
I found out about how great these Trojan 6volt golf cart batteries while in the Bahamas. When my two 8D batteries died in Green Turtle Cay I needed replacements. The local Golf course replaced their batteries in the carts every three years. I asked if I could get their old batteries which I saw sitting around. I was given 6 of these old batteries. They lasted 5 years so the total life was 8 years. I replaced them after the 5 years with brand new ones and 10 years later they where still doing the job. Best batteries I have ever owned period.
Buying by the pound
Mostly lead acid batteries are all of the same design, although some things like the additives that they put in their metal makes a difference in its life. If you get heavier batteries they have thicker plates which usually translates as longer service life. So buying by the pound isn't a really strange idea.
Many years ago I read a book about lead acid cell maintenance. It had a chart that related average outside temperature to specific gravity <the amount of acid>. At warmer temperatures you could get by with less acid, because the chemical action was more efficent and thereby extend the battery life. The very large lead acid batteries we have at the powerplant have a twenty year lifespan, but this is only based on a 100% discharge once a year during testing. I don't think I have ever read anywhere that any rechargeable battery is designed for 100% discharge as part of its normal cycle life. Mostly I have read that keeping 50% of the battery charge greatly extends battery life. YMMV
Mostly lead acid batteries are all of the same design, although some things like the additives that they put in their metal makes a difference in its life. If you get heavier batteries they have thicker plates which usually translates as longer service life. So buying by the pound isn't a really strange idea.
Many years ago I read a book about lead acid cell maintenance. It had a chart that related average outside temperature to specific gravity <the amount of acid>. At warmer temperatures you could get by with less acid, because the chemical action was more efficent and thereby extend the battery life. The very large lead acid batteries we have at the powerplant have a twenty year lifespan, but this is only based on a 100% discharge once a year during testing. I don't think I have ever read anywhere that any rechargeable battery is designed for 100% discharge as part of its normal cycle life. Mostly I have read that keeping 50% of the battery charge greatly extends battery life. YMMV
True Jim,
The life expectancy charts and pundits say that at a 50% discharge limit, the battery life quadruples (compared to 100%). And I'm sure that 600 cycle test parameter is under ideal conditions, not sitting in a boat or under a shed most of the time.
The life expectancy charts and pundits say that at a 50% discharge limit, the battery life quadruples (compared to 100%). And I'm sure that 600 cycle test parameter is under ideal conditions, not sitting in a boat or under a shed most of the time.
Could be, but
what they DIDN'T tell you is whether the batteries maintained their amp-hr rating throughout the course of those 600 cycles. I would doubt it. Also, it's my guess that their definition of full discharge is 1.75 volts per cell, or 10.5 volts for a 12 volt system. Note that by that definition and at those voltages many of your onboard systems would have long since shut-down. It's an impressive test that shows they build tough batteries but it's not particularly meanigful in terms of onboard usage. Fred's right, shoot for a 50% discharge or a voltage reading of no lower than 11.8-12.0 volts We're full time live-aboards and we're on our second set of batteries. The first set were Interstate blems (I'm cheap) that had to live with an ancient piece of crap Guest charger, no equalizations and a skipper (me) who learns by making every mistake in the book. Amazingly, they lasted 3 years. Our current set of Sam's Club Stowaways (I'm still cheap) live with a Xantrax Trucharge 40+, get equalized regularly and after nearly 2 years show better capacity and specific gravity readings than when they were new. Maintenance is everything.
what they DIDN'T tell you is whether the batteries maintained their amp-hr rating throughout the course of those 600 cycles. I would doubt it. Also, it's my guess that their definition of full discharge is 1.75 volts per cell, or 10.5 volts for a 12 volt system. Note that by that definition and at those voltages many of your onboard systems would have long since shut-down. It's an impressive test that shows they build tough batteries but it's not particularly meanigful in terms of onboard usage. Fred's right, shoot for a 50% discharge or a voltage reading of no lower than 11.8-12.0 volts We're full time live-aboards and we're on our second set of batteries. The first set were Interstate blems (I'm cheap) that had to live with an ancient piece of crap Guest charger, no equalizations and a skipper (me) who learns by making every mistake in the book. Amazingly, they lasted 3 years. Our current set of Sam's Club Stowaways (I'm still cheap) live with a Xantrax Trucharge 40+, get equalized regularly and after nearly 2 years show better capacity and specific gravity readings than when they were new. Maintenance is everything.
600 'full' cycles is pretty good....
but, as Rick and others pointed out, the parameters of the test aren't known. Charging rate can have a major effect on battery life: Most boat batteries get a real 'jolt' when the poorly regulated alternator shoves amps into them, so if the testing lab charges them slowly and gently, they'll last longer. Same thing for the discharge rate. Slow discharge not only gives more amp-hours, it causes less stress on the battery as well. So I don't doubt that a testing lab could set up a smooth cycle that would maximize battery life. Try doing that in real life on a boat! Jim, I hope nobody gets the idea that they should be adjusting the specific gravity of their batteries based on the ambient temperature *yks I know that wasn't what you meant Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8 proud owner of an 8 yr-old Interstate 8D
but, as Rick and others pointed out, the parameters of the test aren't known. Charging rate can have a major effect on battery life: Most boat batteries get a real 'jolt' when the poorly regulated alternator shoves amps into them, so if the testing lab charges them slowly and gently, they'll last longer. Same thing for the discharge rate. Slow discharge not only gives more amp-hours, it causes less stress on the battery as well. So I don't doubt that a testing lab could set up a smooth cycle that would maximize battery life. Try doing that in real life on a boat! Jim, I hope nobody gets the idea that they should be adjusting the specific gravity of their batteries based on the ambient temperature *yks I know that wasn't what you meant
Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8 proud owner of an 8 yr-old Interstate 8D
It's a cruel world for batteries.
But I recall those life charts showing that batteries actually have more capacity after a few cycles. Not sure how many though. Of course, that's with Ricks proper maintenance.
But I recall those life charts showing that batteries actually have more capacity after a few cycles. Not sure how many though. Of course, that's with Ricks proper maintenance.
volt, amp, watt!?
asl long as we're on the subject... I too recently replaced my 6 golf cart house bank. I keep 2 64 watt panels connected thru a sunsaver regulator that I'm a little suspicious of. What voltage should I be sitting at? I usually observe around 13v but I saw 14 the other day. What's a healthy voltage for the bank to sit at? Thanks!
asl long as we're on the subject... I too recently replaced my 6 golf cart house bank. I keep 2 64 watt panels connected thru a sunsaver regulator that I'm a little suspicious of. What voltage should I be sitting at? I usually observe around 13v but I saw 14 the other day. What's a healthy voltage for the bank to sit at? Thanks!
13 volts is a good float level
Fully-charged lead acid batteries will read 12.6 to 12.8 volts. It isn't good to go much over this for a float charge. What you might have been witnessing (if your regulator provides this feaure) was an automatic equalization or 'refresh' charge. Some battery chargers cycle through the 3 charging stages (bulk, absorbtion & float) on a regular basis. I googled the Sunsaver regulator (see link below) and didn't find what I was talking about. I did notice that the 'Constant voltage regulation' was listed at 14.4 volts. I don't know if that regulator is intended to supply that voltage directly to the batteries. At any rate, if the voltage is varying, it is something to look into. Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
Fully-charged lead acid batteries will read 12.6 to 12.8 volts. It isn't good to go much over this for a float charge. What you might have been witnessing (if your regulator provides this feaure) was an automatic equalization or 'refresh' charge. Some battery chargers cycle through the 3 charging stages (bulk, absorbtion & float) on a regular basis. I googled the Sunsaver regulator (see link below) and didn't find what I was talking about. I did notice that the 'Constant voltage regulation' was listed at 14.4 volts. I don't know if that regulator is intended to supply that voltage directly to the batteries. At any rate, if the voltage is varying, it is something to look into. Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
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