Trip Planning Software

[LeslieTroyer]

Currents are pretty predictable, wind and weather not so much. What's new, Doc?

I agree on a macro level but at a micro level you really need local knowledge (which I don't have yet) on where you need to be in a channel to maximize or minimize the currents effect.

There is a saying in the islands that if you don't like the weather -- wait 5 minutes.

Les

 

[jssailem]

Working a route through Deception Passage We would need to depart about the same time to make the Ebbing tide through the Passage. From there we could take one of 2 routes... Around the south/west side of San Juan Isl and through Mosquito Pass or up the East side of San Juan Isl. thru the Middle Channel at Cattle Pt, Around the North side through San Juan Channel and then down into Roche Harbor. This would likely be slower as we would be bucking currents the whole route around the East and North sides of San Juan Isl in the "San Juan Channel".
Not yet sure of the mileage as I did not have a route set from Deception Passage to Roche Harbor. I'll plot it tonight.

 

[LeoLambert310]

For me to be at the Catalina Rendezvous I'll have traveled 140 nm taking 4 days. Trip planning is done using Garmin software with Active captain then saved with route information for the plotter/autopilot to follow. I used OpenCPN and found that this program worked but had to hand transfer the information.

 

[salishmermaid]

Salish - Ray marine wants it's routes to be in fsh format - you can use GPSBabel to convert most programs export format into fsh (or other) for import into your Raymarine. Navionics connects directly and allows you to sync via wireless.

Thanks, I downloaded GPSBabel and created a Raymarine rwf format file, I will try it out this weekend.

 

[Terry Cox]

Working a route through Deception Passage We would need to depart about the same time to make the Ebbing tide through the Passage. From there we could take one of 2 routes... Around the south/west side of San Juan Isl and through Mosquito Pass or up the East side of San Juan Isl. thru the Middle Channel at Cattle Pt, Around the North side through San Juan Channel and then down into Roche Harbor.

Hi John, in my experience, if Roche Harbor is your destination and Deception Pass is part of your route, I would transit Deception on an ebb slack before the flood. That way, once through, you would have a flood current to carry you northerly whether on the west or east side of San Juan Island. I would probably go the west side of the island because you might have a speedy transit up San Juan Channel but a snail's pace bucking the current through Speiden Channel.

 

[Mark Maulden]

If memory serves me, if you go up San Juan Channel, be at the top at the last of flood and the current through Spieden Channel will flip and go west. This says you have to be at Cattle Pass on slack off the ebb. Treat Cattle Pass with respect. So, it looks like if you pop out of Deception, you wont make a good entry into San Juan Channel as you have to be at both passes at the same time. Ain't this fun? Whenever I came out of the sound, I hit Smith sometime before slack and rode the flood up the west side of San Juan Is or up Rosario Strait.

 

[jssailem]

Thanks Mark. That matches up with my read of the currents. Unfortunately the 4th of May has the cycle on the wrong side of our transits. Fair weather and we could make the run up Sound at any time, but I want to run the passages around San Juan Isl during daylight. I think Les and I need to have a beer and review the plan.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

the time is definitely against us - I was thinking if we leave at 4am we should be just past Townsend on the turn, and that is the weak flood - so if we have to buck it a bit ok - then I think we go against it again as we near San Juan Island - I agree with Mark that Cattle Point - and up San Juan Channel can be very nasty. Beer and cogitation for sure.

Decisions Decisions

 

[DayDreamer41]

Thanks for the great thread, I have never had to deal with tidal currents living in the Great Lakes area, river currents yes, but currents that change direction puts a real twist into trip planning, that is for sure.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

DayDreamer - not only do they normally change directions (ebb and flow) as the tide goes in and out - but like the continental divide changes directions rivers flow - crossing the Strait of Juan de Fuca means in Puget Sound they typically go North on the Ebb and South on the Flood, in the San Juans and Gulf Islands it is typically North on the Flood and South on the Ebb. Going further north they switch again.

With some passes flowing way in excess of boat speed (>12kts).

One trip last year - it was 6hrs up (timed it correctly) and 11hrs on the return. At one point I was making a whopping 1knt over the ground and 6.5 thru the water.

 

[DayDreamer41]

Leslie the extreme currents is what brought attention to me, I looked at a current predictor software, Deepzoom to get a better idea of what and where you were planning and noticed how important planning is when navigating those waters, man there are area's there I would not want to be in during the peak of ebb or flood, you could end up with over ground speeds in the negative numbers, kinda hard to navigate like that.

 

[Mark Maulden]

Thanks Mark. That matches up with my read of the currents. Unfortunately the 4th of May has the cycle on the wrong side of our transits. Fair weather and we could make the run up Sound at any time, but I want to run the passages around San Juan Isl during daylight. I think Les and I need to have a beer and review the plan.

At least the moon is at half moon on the 4th. Trip back could get more interesting..

 

[jssailem]

Trip back may need a brew pause....
Day Dreamer... Deep zoom is pretty cool. Real good use of graphics. Internet dependent so more effective for planning than in route. I used it with paper charts and a set of points to figure currents in - time and distance to passages, till I got a copy of CE which lets m see everything at once.

Then there are the days when we have tidal major and minor cycles which affect the lengths of slack and safe passage in some locations. It keeps you on your toes. Best to keep the libations at a minimum during planning.
Here is one passage that can change your day...
Okisollo tidal Rapid

 

[jssailem]

Mark
Just ran the return trip info on best time departure Sunday7th afternoon to Tuesday AM. Came back with 11.5 hours across the Strait and 13 hours via Deception Passage. Compares to 10 and 11.6 hours going. Basically swimming up stream for an extra hour and a half.
And all this is without the effect of weather. Well this, at the least, gives one a start with planning.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

I got a response back from Rose Point to my query
1) new update will probably cost $99 - last major update was 6 years ago
2) they can't send route and track directly to my Raymarine MFD - have to export, convert, write to sd - import sd on MFD. It might control autopilot directly - but don't think so. It also didnt seem like they were interested.
3) on current - that feature is in beta and they gave me instruction on how to do it. I thought I was loosing it, I couldn't figure it out. nothing they said jived with what I saw on the screen. Finally I tried the "new user interface" and new menu items appear and it all makes sense. The "BIG" problem is selecting a current reporting station that aproximates where you are!!

I added a few on the Pt Townsend route - and tweaked it a bit to stay out of the vessel traffic area as long as possible, It looks like if we leave @4:45 AM we will get there just before 5pm So while a long day - it looks like it might work.

 

[JohnShannon]

Sail Grib works on android phones. Has polars for a bunch of boats and will go get a grib then plan the best route also knows about currents. Don't know if it works in Canada re maps. I have been playing with the freeware version, pretty cool. Full price isn[t too mu h

 

[jssailem]

"BIG" problem is selecting a current reporting station that aproximates where you are!

Yes. I noted that issue. When you use the Raster charts they show arrows (like Deepzone) in the primary passages. The arrows change size and direction of the current.
The new beta feature shows the current for individual waypoints in the route details at the eta you might get there and indicates the speed of the current with you or against you by a knot value either + or -.
The export sd card convert process would be a lot of trouble and guessing not much fun. Especially if the results are not going to control your autopilot.

On a separate note, reading the install of my new still in the box autopilot I learned I need a Raymarine MFD to program the new software upgrades to the EVO system... You have any knowledge of this?

 

[LeslieTroyer]

Yes, that is required. You can bring it to my boat and plug it in to my network to update it. They are coming out with new cheaper line of mfd that should do it. Around 500 at the entry. The guy at WM said they would have them in store next week.

 

[jssailem]

Thanks Les. I'm trying to schedule a trip up there next week. Perhaps Wednesday to catch the skippers meet at Scuttlebutt. You still reporting to work daily?

 

[LeslieTroyer]

Yup still chained to a desk with just make work. I can be up there a little after 2 - It only takes 5 minutes to flash the firmware. (it will take longer to get the CPU connected up to power and network). you will need both the Course Computer and the CPU boxes - if you have a backbone and branch cable (blue & white) that would be good - not sure what I have on the boat.