Trim Sequence For Jib & Main

[Clark]

Don,
You made a comment about the top batten of the main needing to be parallel to the boom. Do you mean the chord of the top batten or do you mean something like the rear third of the batten? If chord, then there would be no twist; if rear third then there would be some amount of twist. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[RichH]

Clark - Usually in good sail design (and for sail shaping adjustment when underway) you need the second-from-the-top (in a typical 4 batten set) to have its AFT or leech end parallel to the center line of the boat when beating or close hauled.
When at less than close hauled on down to a broad reach and to maintain 'normal' (designed-in) twist the top most (of 4) batten aft or leech portion will be approximately more or less somewhat parallel to the boom, but not always depending on the need to increase/decrease 'twist').
Sails built for heavy boats or boats with 'heavy weight' crews will have more 'shoulder' (roundness near the head/tops) and will usually have their top battens 'less twisted'.

 

[Joe]

Don,
You made a comment about the top batten of the main needing to be parallel to the boom. Do you mean the chord of the top batten or do you mean something like the rear third of the batten? If chord, then there would be no twist; if rear third then there would be some amount of twist. Thanks for clarifying.

Perhaps an easier way to visualize it is to see the rear, straighter part of the batten pointing in the same direction as the boom. They won't be in the same plane, but the flatter section of the batten and the boom will be parallel.

Rich's suggestion, to use the second batten, makes a lot of sense... it's much more adjustable than the first.

 

[Don Guillette]

Clark: "Parallel to the boom" is a general statement. It really can't happen but a mate has to do the best he can to get it as straight as possible. When you do that you've eliminated as much twist as possible and that is my objective, without really saying it to the beginner, because twist is a power robber. My boat had only 3 short battens so I used the top batten as my reference point since it fullfilled my objective. I also use the top telltale as my twist indicator. On the jib my reference telltale is the middle one.

Like everything in sail trim, a mate uses what works for him. Joe from San Diego and RichH make excellent points and collectively you, and others, reading this thread now have the full story and can pick out the parts that they are comfortable with. The most important thing for a sailor to remember is that he must have a reason for each adjustment he makes, even if it's the wrong reason, because otherwise he's just guessing. With guessing most times the adjustment tend to work against each other. It's like shifting a sports car into second, flooring the accelerator and then pulling up the emergancy brake.

 

[RichH]

With guessing most times the adjustment tend to work against each other. It's like shifting a sports car into second, flooring the accelerator and then pulling up the emergancy brake.

ROTFLMAO .... but a very PROFOUND statement

 

[Clark]

Excellent responses guys. I kinda thought it would be the rear portion of the batten but so many times one reads 'batten parallel to the boom' when many top battens are full and in the shape of an arc and no clarification is given.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Pegfrayne]

We always raise the mainsail first. We have a small (1983 Hunter 20) and must climb up to the mast to raise the sail. Then climb back into the cockpit to unfurl the jib. If the Jib were already out when I am standing at the mast, chances are i would end up in the water.

 

[Bill Roosa]

As with all sail trim, I find it important to understand what you are trying to accomplish. the unstated assumption is make the boat go (fast) in the desired direction or as close as possible to it. That pretty much sets the apparent wind direction.
Apparent wind sets the angle of attack for the sail
Apparent wind speed sets the need to (or not) to depower the sails by reducing the camber, installing twist, or reefing.
Course, all the above effect each other. ie when I reduce the camber I change the angle of attack and have to either point higher or move the boom outward. When I'm successful at getting the boat to go fast it increases the apparent wind speed (beating) and I have to install twist or reduce camber or both or reef..........which causes more stuff to be out of wack which requres another retrim.
If you understand angle of attack, camber, and twist you are well on your way to becoming a racer.

 

[jrowan]

I have been sailing & read many books on sailing for nearly 30 years, and never in my life have I heard of anyone claiming to be a pro sailor promoting the raising the jib first & then the mainsail. I & everyone else have been taught to raise the main first because you need to be pointed dead into the wind to avoid excessive wind resistance whilst raising the sail. Also many of us still use halyard winches mounted on the mast to raise our sails. It can be downright dangerous & ill advised to raise the main after the jib is raised & the sail boat is pointed off wind. The boat can heel over very quickly when filled & can pose a danger to the crew member raising the sail. Also as others mentioned it would promote flogging and excessive wear of the head sail to raise it first, then head into the wind to raise the main.
Don, your explanation provides bad advice, explains nothing, and only sounds like a sales pitch to buy your sail trim chart. Sorry but I would find it hard to trust the advice of someone who can't even get it straight as to which sail should be raised first & why.

 

[RichH]

I think the original question was which sail should be *trimmed* first not *raised* first .... and it really makes no difference for either of the possible 4 choices.

If the main-raised-first was valid, youd never be 'allowed' to put a deep reef in a main while simply sailing entirely on a jib/genoa. You certainly dont drop/furl a jib/genoa before you deep reef a main. <G> ;-)

 

[Don Guillette]

Jrowan: Read all the messages, especially the 6th one on page 1, where I corrected my statement.

 

[Stu Jackson]

It's really disappointing that folks flame someone before they read the whole topic.

Thanks for all your efforts, Don.

 

[Don Guillette]

Stu: When I started the topic I reread it once and didn't catch the mistake and then I checked mostly for spelling errors and then when Joe from San Diego caught the error I though "oh crap and how can I get the message back" but it was too late.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Stu: When I started the topic I reread it once and didn't catch the mistake and then I checked mostly for spelling errors and then when Joe from San Diego caught the error I though "oh crap and how can I get the message back" but it was too late.

It's never too late. Just go back to the original wrong post and insert {corrected down below or later} and you're done!

Heck, I do it all the time 'cuz I'm usually wrong to begin with!

 

[Joe]

Stu: When I started the topic I reread it once and didn't catch the mistake and then I checked mostly for spelling errors and then when Joe from San Diego caught the error I though "oh crap and how can I get the message back" but it was too late.

Don.... everyone except jrowan followed the entire thread so we know what happened and it's no big deal. Jrowan's problem is that he didn't, and therefore made an ASS of himself.

Jrowan........... it is beyond me to understand why anyone would condemn another member here before reading the entire thread. Shame on you, Sir!
It is certainly true that Don wants to sell his book here, we all know that, because that's his right as a guest consultant of this site's ownership... just like Peggy, Mainsail, et. al.

"You sir, belay! Bosun, take than man below and clap him in irons." -Jack Aubrey, HMS Surprise.

 

[cwkemp]

Easy, jrowan.
Don has been extremely liberal and accomodating with his knowledge and brand of instruction and has facilitated participation by brilliant and colorful experts beside himself in these hallowed pages. There is more detail and information on this forum than you could ever hope to pack in a small publication and it is FREE for the reading. I'm going right now to buy the Sail Trim Chart from this site knowing I've gotten my money's worth many times over just reading these discussions.
Nobody here is always right, and we all know that many aspects of sailing involve managed risks.
...RichH, good point about reefing the main.
Good day, and stay civil.
Clint

 

[Don Guillette]

Clint: Thank you. Your chart Sail Trim Chart is in the mail this morning. I included a QUICK REFERENCE. The reference indicates the sail trim controls for the main and jib that are used to adjust draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of attack. The reference also indicates which way to push or pull each sail trim control to get the adjustment you are desiring.