Trim Sequence For Jib & Main

[Don Guillette]

Bob lang asked an interesting question. He wanted to know the order of adjusting and settings sails, which sail is set first and what is the normal procedure.

Sounds like a simple question to answer but it's NOT. When I was trying to figure out how to sail a silly sailboat, it's a question I asked of other sailors a million times and the answers I received confused the blazes out of me. I could write a book and make up a chart on the subject, which is exactly what I did!!

Let's assume you have a masthead rig - if you have a fractional rig you reverse some of this stuff. The first thing you do is raise the jib to full hoist and back off a tad. Then you set your fairleads and then you trim the jib sheet until the luffing just stops. Then check your telltales for proper flow.

Next you raise the main to full hoist and back off a tad.Trim your mainsheet so that the top batten is parallel to the boom. Next you set your outhaul and then you set your traveler to get the boat moving. Set the outhaul in the middle of it's range of movement and almost center the traveler.

Why do I back off a tad on both halyards? It's because I have a jib cunningham and mainsail cunningham and I use them for final adjustment instead of the halyard. Why do I adjust the jib first on a masthead rig? It's because the jib is the engine and you always adjust the engine first.

At this point in the adjustment process the boat is now moving forward and now it's time for you to fine tune for the conditions you're sailing in. There are 8 primary sail trim controls for the mainsail and 6 for the jib. Each of these 14 sail trim controls has a particular setting for each point of sail and wind condition. To obtain 100% efficiency all the sail trim controls have to be in sinq with each other or the will work against each other.

Space does not permit an outline of all the settings but I've made it easy for new sailors. Buy the SAIL TRIM CHART and your sail trim problems will be over. After you use it a few times you won't need it anymore because you'll know the correct settings to use. The CHART tells you WHAT settings to use. The BOOK tells you WHY you're making a particular sail trim adjustment. The WHY of sail trim is EVERYTHING. If you don't know WHY you're making a particular sail trim adjustment you're just guessing.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Maybe

Don, I think you may potentially confuse newbies. You seem to be mixing the order of TRIMMING sails with RAISING sails. I agree with the trimming part for masthead rigs, but raising the main after raising the jib is counter-intuitive to me.

 

[alexco38]

I raise Main first because it is heavy and need to be direct head into wind to raise it. At a slight angle it won't go up. The Jib can be roll out at any angle.

If I roll out the jib first and head direct into wind, the thing (150%) will try to flog itself to death on the mast.

Once I raised the Main, I just rough trim it and then roll out the jib. Fine tune the jib first before fiddle with the main.

 

[PSTEVEN]

I was always told to raise the main first so that the boat will stream bow into the wind. If you raise the jib first it is hard to raise the main with the jib trying to turn the boat downwind.

 

[cwkemp]

I also raise the main first (while head to wind) but I can see that it might be easier to set the jib leads while able to see the whole sail before the main was up. I might just try it as Don describes, though I always TRIM the jib first, then the main, then the jib again, etc.
Clint

 

[Joe]

I, too, raise the main first.... usually right at the dock since I'm already facing upwind. If I were sailing out to the ocean I would put the jib up.... but since I normally motor out... the vessel behaves much better under power with main only.

I don't start trimming till the motor is off and both sails are drawing.

 

[weinie]

Since I sail single handed, I too find it much easier to hoist the main first. I can point the boat into the wind, leave the helm to walk to the front of the cockpit, hoist the main, trim it quickly, and get back to the wheel. From there I can unfurl my jib while keeping my hand within reach of the wheel. I choose and set my course and trim and fine trim accordingly.

 

[Don Guillette]

Yup, it's raise the main and roll out the jib. Then adjust the jib first on a masthead rig and the main second. Sometimes I confuse myself. It seems to make sense when I type feveriously with my fingers ahead of my brain or vica versa but when I re-read it (after I'm corrected) I wonder where was I was coming from. In our adult community of Saddlebrooke, AZ we call these things "A Saddlebrooke Moment". That's the excuse we use.

Dropping sail is just the opposite. First sail up is the last sail down.

 

[JoeWhite]

And now - how about what is the best way to roll up the jib. I have been instructed to sail close haul and then roll up the jib so that it will roll up tight. But this causes the jib sheets to flog violently and could potentially break the clear plastic on the dodger. On my last sail a sailor that was on my boat put the boat on down wind and blocked the jib with the main. This removed all the wind from the jib . Then rolled up the jib. At this point of sail there is no flogging of the jib sheets. I wonder how others roll up their jib.

 

[Stu Jackson]

It all depends on the wind strength and the size of your jib.

Flogging sheets are something that can be controlled, but not always, so pick the right POS for the wind strength.

There's no ONE right answer.

 

[sinnettc]

I have a Capri 22 tall rig - it's 15/16 fractional rig.

I don't use my roller furler that much, but when I do I keep a bit of tension on the lee sheet so it doesn't flog. That's the same thing we used to do on the Capri 16.5 we had before we got Verboten.

Mostly I use the racing foil and the luff tape jibs; that means someone has to go up on the bow and physically pull the sail down. The easiest way I've found to do that is to cleat the jib sheet and head into the wind. I usually drop the jib, then the main, but if it's really windy or gusty, then I'll drop the main first.

 

[Warren Milberg]

I do what Stu describes: depends on wind strength whether I roll up the headsail going upwind or downwind. In winds less than 10kts, I usually head upwind and wind up the headsail. In winds above 10kts, I fall off to a very broad reach to somewhat blanket the headsail. My Furlex 200 furler more or less requires keeping a steady pressure on both the furling line and one of the sheets when furling or unfurling to minimize overwraps of the furling line in the drum. Sometimes this takes 3 hands to accomplish....

 

[oldiesrocker2001]

Like Sinnetic, I keep a slight tension on the jib sheets(both) when furling. Partially to keep them from flogging but also to make sure the jib furls tight with the sheets wrapped around a bit. this also insures as best as I can that the built-in sunbrella cover wont have any pockets to catch a heavy wind and force it loose as well as making the furling line roll in the drum as evenly as possible.
I also raise the main first since, even though I have a masthead rig, my jib is really too small and cannot point at all with only the jib up.

 

[Benny17441]

I remember one time I was approaching the narrow entry channel to a river and this smaller boat was racing behind me to pass. I figured he wanted to beat me for position in the channel so I gave way. To my surprise right after he passed he turned the boat around to drop his main sail. I think he was more surprised, by the look in his face, when he seen me take down my mainsail while maintaining course downwind. By the time I saw he had the sail down and was turning into the channel I was halfway through it. He was probably practicing what he had been taught and it had probably never ocurred to him that under certain conditions and circumstances there might be a better way of doing things.

 

[Happy Dolphin]

Simple process: Ready boat and sails prior to leaving the dock.
1. Proceed with Aux Power into wind - Auto Pilot On (or Mate on Helm)
2. Raise Main - return to cockpit if necessary.
3. Raise Jib (Un-furle if equipped) - Return to cockpit.
4. Determine best direction, Fill sails, Kill Aux. Power, Change directions as needed...
5. Obey and respect the wind!
When finished go to 1, then lower Jib, then lower Main, Secure and return to dock with many adventures to share..., Go below Take a Nap ;o)

Always: Life Jacket, Life Line (harness), and a 50' to 100' floatable line astern...

 

[Bill Roosa]

I generally do the main hoist first, don't care what POS I furl/unfurl the jib on, trim jib then main and repeat till happy or going faster than the other guys.
I'm wondering, given Happy Dolphin's use of the iron spinnaker to "get going" what the group does (do you even try this also) when sailing off an anchor/mooring?
I don't try to use the jib when sailing off an anchor. Hoist the main, pick the side you want to take the anchor on, push the boom over to that side to point the boat, once pointed, shift the boom and "catch the wind", moving now haul the anchor and monitor the filling of the main, as you pass the anchor cleat off and break free, finish the weigh, and take up a beat till weigh is finished, turn to the course to leave the anchorage and set sails as normal for that POS.
Thoughts

 

[RichH]

Advice for 'fanatics' ...

All this depends on WHERE in the combined sail plan 'center of effort' (CE) is located. On sloops (defined as having the mast location somewhere near 30% of 'overall boat length' back from the Stem, etc.) the CE will usually be at about ~10% of LOA 'behind' the mast. Since the CE is IN the mainsail the mainsail will 'almost' all by itself 'balance' and drive the boat without or with little adverse helm, etc. In contrast, other designs such as (true) cutters (mast @ near 50% of LOA) will have the CE IN the jib/staysail and in front of the mast, and can easily sail with just a jib/staysail. Ketches and Yawl-boats certainly cannot sail with solely their jibs nor mizzens flying; Schooners because of where the CE occurs in the combined sailplan 'can' sail with only the large 'staysail' (which can look like a 'mainsail' flying from the fore-mast) flying.

The aerodynamic 'interaction' of mainsail-jib/genoa is well known. One sail provides better aerodynamic conditions to/for the 'adjacent' sail ... and in return, the adjacent sail then provides better aerodynamic conditions the 'other' .. and it doesnt matter if the first sail is 'behind' the second or vice versa. The combo of both optimizes 'each other' with the result that that optimization/interaction provides a better result than the arithmetic sum of each when flown 'alone'. So, 1 + 1 = 3 in the case of aerodynamics when two sails are operating in 'close proximity'.

So what Im suggesting is if you are attempting trim/shape 'optimization', dont fall into the trap of assuming that trimming the mainsail first, then the genoa and then forgetting the main because you already 'trimmed the main already' is incorrect ..... as the trim of the main affects the trim of the jib/genoa which affects the trim of the main which again affects the trim of the jib, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

On the common 'sloop', including sloops that fly 'staysails', and where the 'combined' CE is aft of the mast .... Trim main, trim genoa, optimize tell tale flow on the MAIN, then Jib, then main again, then jib, etc. etc. ... and that will usually get your tell-tales flying to perfection sooner and with less 'confusion'.

Also remember or know, that if you want 'optimization' you can never ever make only ONE trim/shape adjustment with 'triangular sails' as whatever you do to cause a change in 'tension' to one 'edge' (luff or foot or leech) will cause a 'tension reaction' in the 'edge' that is the 'most perpendicularly 'across'' to the one that you first 'adjusted' on that single sail, .... and that change of shape, etc. will cause the 'adjacent' sail to need to be 'readjusted' by TWO corrections to 'edge' (foot/luff/leech) tension to reestablish and restore the optimization of the 'interaction' between the 2 sails.
To help clear up any confusion from the above what I mean is that if you add tension to a luff, you automaticaly 'de-tension' a leech and to get the leech restored back to correc ct tension you probably will need a (second 'adjustment'); add tension to leech and you 'slack' the luff and some loss of tension in the foot, etc. etc. etc. ... so if you are 'shaping' your sails to get the best telltale flow ... remember that any adjustment is usually followed by another adjustment ... 2!

This may sound overly complicated but in practice, when adjusting shape in one sail ALWAYS look for the second 'adjustment' perpendicular to the first 'adjustment .... and which cause the tell tales to again fly 'perfectly' ... then look for tell tale 'changes' that occur in the 'other' sail as a result of adjusting the 'first' sail. In ultimate simplicity ... simply make the tell tales 'fly perfectly' ... and know that sometimes you have to make adjustments to the 'other' sail to make the tell tales 'perfect' on the sail that first attracted your attention.

Very simple ... do ANYTHING you need to do to get ALL the tell tales flying 'perfect' as you carefully watch your SPEEDO. But consider that ONE adjustment will not do the complete job .... as it usually always takes at least *two* adjustments anytime you change 'anything', hardly ever only just ONE adjustment.

 

[tkaser3210]

I've always thought that there are 2 basic sloop sail plans, and the sail plan design determines which sail provides the primary "engine". Example; I have a Hunter H26 - I think it's 7/8 rig, and the main has a pretty full roach. I consider the jib (110 furling) to be the primary motive force in most conditions.

If the winds are less than 10 - 12 knots, I usually deploy the jib 1/2 to 3/4 first. I sheet it back loosely to the mast while I raise the main, and keep the main closely sheeted while I let the jib all the way out and sheet it until it stops luffing, then let the main out and begin balancing and trimming.

Does that sound correct?

 

[moehorenfeldt]

I also have a 150 Jib on my 1981 Hunter 33, and agree fullty with your actions. I use the tell-tales on my jib to guide the settings, and once it is "happy" I will adjust the main, and use the traveller to optiize. The whole proces takes but a minute, and I'm off.

 

[Don Guillette]

moehnorenfeldt/Tkaser3210: Over the years I've been sailing I've found that what works best is what works for the individual sailing PROVIDED the end result is 100% sail trim efficiency. In other words, it doesn't matter how you get there as long as you get there and have a reason for what and WHY you're doing something.

As usual, RichH has said it best, you have to use ALL the sail trim controls for the main and jib to obtain 100% efficiency.

At a recent sail trim seminar I conducted in Phoenix I told the audience that the main and jib should mirror each other after the FINAL adjustment. One person stated suppose the adjustment are off on both sails, what then? I really didn't know how to answer but I told him that if both the main and jib adjustments are crappy it's important that they at least look good!! Consistency is everything.