Trident 101 vs. Shields 101

[Maine Sail]

Peggy,

What is the measurable difference between the Trident 101 and the Shields 101? One of my distributors has the Shields 101 but not the Trident 101. I have stuck with Trident 101 but am now wondering if they are basically the same thing? This distributor has a better price on it than I can buy Trident 101 for.. I need quite a bit for a job I am doing and figured I'd run it buy you first.

I should mention that the stuff that was in there, Shields 148, black wire reinforced rubber, is very badly odor permeated.

P.S. When are the hose makers going to make a full compliment of the 101 series such as 3/4" hose for vents and head intake hoses???? I would like to have a vent hose that lasts as long as the rest of the system.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

If you check the product lines for all hose and pipe mfrs, you'll see that the same types of hose have the same numbers...and those numbers mean something. 101, 110, 140, 148 are all rated for sanitation and below waterline installations, but not for potable water or some chemicals. Clear plastic hoses are all in the 160sl..not rated for below waterline use.

Like any other product, the quality of the same "schedule" hose or plastic pipe can vary from mfr to mfr...wall thicknes, molecular structure, etc. There's a quite a bit of junk but Trident and Shields hoses are both good quality and mostly pretty comparable, allthough Trident 101 is the hose with the track record for being on the market for nearly 20 years without a single reported odor permeation failure. Shields has tried to compete with a hose that has a lifetime warranty against odor permeation--and costs twice as much--but 10 years is about the useful lifespan of any hose...they become hard and brittle and prone to cracking when they get old, and Trident 101 has proven conclusively that it can last at least that long, so there's really no reason to pay $15/ft for a "lifetime" warranty against odor.

 

[Maine Sail]

If you check the product lines for all hose and pipe mfrs, you'll see that the same types of hose have the same numbers...and those numbers mean something. 101, 110, 140, 148 are all rated for sanitation and below waterline installations, but not for potable water or some chemicals. Clear plastic hoses are all in the 160sl..not rated for below waterline use.

Like any other product, the quality of the same "schedule" hose or plastic pipe can vary from mfr to mfr...wall thicknes, molecular structure, etc. There's a quite a bit of junk but Trident and Shields hoses are both good quality and mostly pretty comparable, allthough Trident 101 is the hose with the track record for being on the market for nearly 20 years without a single reported odor permeation failure. Shields has tried to compete with a hose that has a lifetime warranty against odor permeation--and costs twice as much--but 10 years is about the useful lifespan of any hose...they become hard and brittle and prone to cracking when they get old, and Trident 101 has proven conclusively that it can last at least that long, so there's really no reason to pay $15/ft for a "lifetime" warranty against odor.

Thanks Peggy! I think I'll just stick with the Trident 101, I know it works. I did compare it side by side last night and the Trident is thicker and appears to have an extra layer..? Will try and snap a pic when I think of it...

P.S. I have never believed that holding tanks, Ronco specifically, can odor permeate but I've got one in my barn with teflon tape sealed PVC plugs in it, it's been cleaned, the exterior washed multiple times and then sprayed with Pure Ayre. It still smells!!! What are your thoughts....???? This is an older 1987ish black Ronco... Should I be washing the exterior with something special. I have tried all my "go to" cleaners (Real-Tuff, 3M Sharp Shooter, Spray Nine etc. etc.) and even washed it twice with a 50/50 bleach & water mix..

I suspect it is just stench stuck to the exterior but how does one get that stench out? Even Pure Ayre has failed me....

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

There are several possibilities:

1. There's a hairline crack in a weld or fitting or even in a tank wall that's allowing odor from inside the tank to escape. Only way to test for that would be to fill the tank with water to which you've added red (or whatever color will show up against black) food coloring...pressurize the tank and wait 24 hours.

2. It's an exceptionally thin (<.25") tank. Wall thickness also affects permeability...plus an exceptionally thin tank will flex, which can result in a crack. But you said it's a Ronco tank, which would make that highly unlikely.

3. The tank was ever been used, even briefly, to hold fuel or some type of chemical other than maybe a holding tank chemical product. Polyethylene water and waste tanks are made of linear low density PE...petroleum and some chemicals will permeate it, even "melt" it. Which is why fuel and chemical tanks must be made of high density cross linked PE, which has an entirely different molecular structure that fuel and chemicals won't permeate. So if that tank was ever used to hold anything but waste or water, its resistance to permeation could have been compromised.

4. Your sealed fittings/plugs aren't sealing. O-ring and/or gasket on inspection port or tank level sender may have failed. Or, you were so determined to make sure the plugs were threaded in tight that you OVER tightened 'em, 'causing the female collar to crack (see #1 above).

5. I'd have to smell it to know for certain just WHAT the odor is. You may have used so many cleaning chemicals that YOU'VE caused the tank to become permeated. (See #3 above)...However, my money is on odor from another source that's reattaching itself to the outside of the tank.

 

[Maine Sail]

There are several possibilities:

1. There's a hairline crack in a weld or fitting or even in a tank wall that's allowing odor from inside the tank to escape. Only way to test for that would be to fill the tank with water to which you've added red (or whatever color will show up against black) food coloring...pressurize the tank and wait 24 hours.

2. It's an exceptionally thin (<.25") tank. Wall thickness also affects permeability...plus an exceptionally thin tank will flex, which can result in a crack. But you said it's a Ronco tank, which would make that highly unlikely.

3. The tank was ever been used, even briefly, to hold fuel or some type of chemical other than maybe a holding tank chemical product. Polyethylene water and waste tanks are made of linear low density PE...petroleum and some chemicals will permeate it, even "melt" it. Which is why fuel and chemical tanks must be made of high density cross linked PE, which has an entirely different molecular structure that fuel and chemicals won't permeate. So if that tank was ever used to hold anything but waste or water, its resistance to permeation could have been compromised.

4. Your sealed fittings/plugs aren't sealing. O-ring and/or gasket on inspection port or tank level sender may have failed. Or, you were so determined to make sure the plugs were threaded in tight that you OVER tightened 'em, 'causing the female collar to crack (see #1 above).

5. I'd have to smell it to know for certain just WHAT the odor is. You may have used so many cleaning chemicals that YOU'VE caused the tank to become permeated. (See #3 above)...However, my money is on odor from another source that's reattaching itself to the outside of the tank.

Peggy,

This is not "my" tank it is a customers tank. I plan to pressure test it later today when I have the right adapter. I know it has never had fuel in it but the owner has used a formaldehyde based treatment in it.

I know Ronco can make a new tank but just found it odd that the exterior still stunk even after all that cleaning...

 

[Maine Sail]

Peggy,

Thought you might find this one interesting. This is a side-by-side of Shields 101 and Trident 101.... I know which one I'll be buying..

 

[thinwater]

In this post (http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2011/09/easy-button.html) I discuss a project where I used a number of hoses as a part of a study. There is a photo of the Y-valve showing Trident 102 on the right and Shields 105 (the $$$ stuff) going down. I didn't fool with Shields 101.

The difference between Shields 105 and Trident 101, other than the price? Perhaps time will tell, but they both seem very well made and I can't see either failing in a short time. I like the smooth cover on the Shields hose... but the $$$ might have stopped me if it wasn't donated for testing.

I would like to hear more about the Raritan Saniflex hose; it was a pleasure to work with--nearly twice as flexible--but was certainly less robust. But that isn't always the whole deal, not when chemistry is involved.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Mike, would you email that photo to me for my files?