Tricolor vs Anchor Light Only

[Plumper II]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Rule 25[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](a) a sailing vessel underway shall exhibit:[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](i) sidelights;[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](ii) a sternlight.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20 meters in length the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule may be combined in one lantern carried at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](c) A sailing vessel underway may, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit at or near the top of the mast, where they can best be seen, two all-round lights in a vertical line, the upper being red and the lower Green, but these lights shall not be exhibited in conjunction with the combined lantern permitted by paragraph (b) of this Rule.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](d)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](i) A sailing vessel of less than 7 meters in length shall, if practicable, exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](ii) A vessel under oars may exhibit the lights prescribed in this rule for sailing vessels, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](e) A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards.[/FONT]
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[Plumper II]

A bit off topic but eusebius brought up an important point. Sure there are laws, but it's pretty important to remember that you are on a pleasure vessel & you may not, under any circumstances, interfere with the operation of commercial vessels, be you under sail or not. Most importantly, is that watch stander on the bridge of the approaching vessel even awake?
Do not put your life or the life of your crew in jeopardy by expecting the other vessel to do the right (legal) thing & remember the nav rules have changed; there is no longer a "right of way" for any vessel. The last vessel which CAN avoid a collision SHALL avoid a collision, lights or no lights or whatever, period!

Perhaps you could show us where the rules have changed such that 'there is no longer a "right of way" for any vessel.' I don't think you are correct with respect to International Rules. I just looked it up. Are you talking about US Inloand rules or the International Rules?

Similarily, 'you may not, under any circumstances, interfere with the operation of commercial vessels' simply isn't true inthe International Rules. Where did you get that from?

 

[Ross]

I am going to add my 2 cents worth here. I don't like masthead lights .. They are completely disconnected from any vessel and are simply a colorful light in the sky. I have seen "stars" hanging low in the western sky while laying at anchor and remarked to Nancy that that "star" isn't setting. As a result we decided that it was probably a masthead anchor light. They were gone before I was up and about in the morning. On the other hand I have seen a lantern hanging from the back stay and shining light on the furled sail, the mast and parts of the deck. There was no doubt about it being a boat.

 

[Scarlet Sails]

Thats a very good remark Capta! The laws do change from time to time and we should all keep up with them. That's my point. While others may not comply or know those laws ( a common problem in the Galveston Bay area) we should always display our lights correctly. This doesn't mean the other vessels will do the correct thing or properly identify your but at least you are doing your best. There are always unsafe boaters to contend with and you just have to keep a watch out for them. Sometimes I light my sails with a spotlight for additional attention. I'm not saying we shouldn't do everything within our power to make our vessel obvious and avoid accidents but we should at the least abide by the rules... on our part. There's a lot that can go wrong on the water and I've seen some bad things myself. And, usually it's someone with no understanding creaming his boat into someone doing everything right. I don't think boating laws negate logic. The laws are just the basics and I think everyone piloting a boat on the water should know and follow the laws but if I think someone is going to hit me I will do ANYTHING to avoid collision even if I have to turn on every light I have! I've been in situations with power boats (in the daytime) in which I had no way to avoid collision except for them to pull off. Thankfully they did!!! I also understand that sailing in bays and such with harbor and city lights visible it can be difficult to spot masthead lights and the rules allow a sailing vessel less than 20 meters to display your sidelights and stern light instead. I don't know if this is answering the original question but I think knowing all these rules and regulations should help determine what lighting to have and where.

 

[geneWj]

U need to have lights which are coast guard approved. U'r mast head navigation lights are not legal for operating U'r boat under power.
Check on the internet for legal light configurations and follow them!
geneWj

 

[Rick9671]

replacing bulbs

I like a tri-color. But, making repairs, changing bulbs, etc. while underway is difficult, if not impossible. You need a backup system, such as detachable deck mounted navigation lights.

My tri-color had an anchor light above the navigation lights; a toggle switch was used to select either the navigation or anchor light.

 

[serenisea]

A friend of mine is the skipper aboard a passenger ferry on San Francisco Bay. He hates tri colors because they are up high and blend in with other land lights. Down low, however, there is no issue.

Gary Scheier
s/v Serenisea2

 

[capta]

Plumper II
If you actually read the international rules of the road, currently there is NO vessel w/ right of way. There is the stand on vessel & the burdened vessel. I do not know exactly when the terminology changed, but it has, with the addition of the "last vessel which can, shall" clause.

 

[Plumper II]

Capta, Granted the term right of way is not used, but the meaning of "burdened" and "stand on" would seem to indicate that the vessel which is permitted to stand on is the right of way vessel and the burdened vessel "shall keep out of the way" clearly means that they don't have the right of way.
Nowhere in the International Rules does it have a "last vessel which can, shall" clause. I just checked, again...
Gotta love the internet for an instant reference.

 

[Ross]

Plumper ll , you are quibbling. It is the responsibility of all vessels to avoid collision. Paraphrasing is permitted here.

 

[Plumper II]

Hardly quibbling. In every R of R situation (except in fog, vessels have to be in sight of one another) there is a stand on (right of way) vessel and a burdened (give way) vessel. Giving way when you are required to stand on is every bit as wrong as not giving way when you are required to give way.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Rule 16[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Action by Give-way Vessel[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Every vessel which is directed to keep out of the way of another vessel shall, so far as possible, take early and substantial action to keep well clear.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Rule 17[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Action by Stand-on Vessel[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](a)[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way of the other shall keep her course and speed.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](ii) The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision by her maneuver alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in accordance with these Rules. [/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](c) A power driven vessel which takes action in a crossing situation in accordance with subparagraph (a)(ii) of this Rule to avoid collision with another power driven vessel shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, not alter course to port for a vessel on her own port side.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](d) This Rule does not relieve the give-way vessel of her obligation to keep out of the way.[/FONT]

Obviously, when the give way vessel doesn't give way, the stand on vessel must (Rule 17b) to avoid collision, but for the rules to work, the stand on vessel must not give way before the give way vessel has the obviously not given way. It would be like stopping at every intersection on the green light. it would screw up traffic. Try to think beyond small boat driving and think big ships in the English Channel or entering Puget sound. We small boats are the bicycles and scooters of the marine highways. We may be small and highly maneuoverable, but the rules still apply.

PS - Good discussion!
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[Maine Sail]

From the USCG site:

5. Who has the "right of way" on the water?

The Navigation Rules convey a right-of-way only in one particular circumstance: to power-driven vessels proceeding downbound with a following current in narrow channels or fairways of the Great Lakes , Western Rivers, or other waters specified by regulation (Inland Rule 9(a)(ii)). Otherwise, power-driven vessels are to keep out of the way (Rule 18) and either give-way (Rule 16) or stand-on (Rule 17) to vessels not under command or restricted in their ability to maneuver, sailing vessels or vessels engaged in fishing, and, similarly vessels should avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained by her draft (Rule 18(d)), navigating a narrow channel (Rule 9) or traffic separation scheme (Rule 10). The Rules do not grant privileges they impose responsibilities and require precaution under all conditions and circumstances; no Rule exonerates any vessel from the consequences of neglect (Rule 2). Neglect, among other things, could be not maintaining a proper look-out (Rule 5), use of improper speed (Rule 6), not taking the appropriate actions to determine and avoid collision (Rule 7 & 8) or completely ignoring your responsibilities under the Rules.

There is a reason the term "right of way" is not used as it tends to denote a "privilege". A term like this with a boater who has little knowledge of the COLREGS may lead to a deadly decision.

"I'm a sail boat and I have the "right of way"....dum.. deee..dum.....SPLAT!"

Stand on is a responsibility to understand the rules as they apply to your situation. If that situation puts you as stand on yet the other boat is making no attempt to follow the rules it becomes your duty to avoid collision.

"Right of way" is technically incorrect terminology unless you are in the "one" instance on the Great Lakes where the term is still applicable yet despite the USCG specifically addressing this, people still use the term....

While adding a tri-color/anchor light for off shore sailing is not a bad thing, can be seen slightly further away, due to height, it will be unusable when motoring or motor sailing. LopoLight makes a nice one that will do tri-color and anchor in the same LED fixture but I think a simple anchor light is a good approach unless going off shore..

 

[Capn Ellis]

... there is a lot of shipping in the lower Chesapeake where I'm located. Thanks to all.

Hey John, I sail out of Urbanna and would add there are more power boat fishermen in our neck o' the woods who would never think of looking up (God bless 'em).

 

[capta]

Well, this has gone far beyond the original thread re: the tri-color.
I'm not going to get into a long drawn out discussion of the R of the R.
I was just trying to put in my 2 cents worth to jsalley & suggest that no matter how you light your vessel, you should NOT rely that the other vessel will do the "right" thing & that you must take responsibility for your own life. Dead "right" is still dead!

 

[Plumper II]

I understand that the USCG teaches it like that. I note that the reference you gave was to "Federal Navigation Regulations, COMDTINST M16672.2D, and, the Navigation Rules (International - Inland)."

You are correct about the use of right of way as "technically incorrect" but that is quibbling.
"Right of way" is a common term used by Masters (of boats of all sizes) throughout the world.
But back to the lights question. What do you think about the sailing red over green at the top of the mast instead of combining the sidelights up there? I think that that is a better option because it gives the long range visibility at sea and still keeps the side lights low and visible in close quarters. I also don't like the side lights at the top of the mast because in a seaway, with lots of rolling, it makes it much more difficult to judge a boat's aspect because the combined light at the masthead will be carving a large arc through the sky.
The red over green is also visible when approaching from astern. That is a huge benefit.
Your thoughts?

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

In my opinion the mast head tri-color is very dangerous.
Obviously the confined waters comments above are very on point. Who looks up at night when you are trying to find a nav mark or boats against the background lights of a harbor.
However offshore they are even more dangerous. As master of a freighter I was sailing south through the Anguilla Passage and spotted a (red or green, I don't remember) light from the bridge wing. From 50 feet (some ships the bridge is 80 feet or more) it looked as though the boat was a couple of miles away. I walked back into the bridge to check the radar and noticed the light go by the bridge wing only moments after determining that the boat was some miles off. I ran out & saw that we had only missed the sail boat by a few feet & was horrified!
From the bridge of a ship, a mast head tri-color gives no distance perspective & shines no light on any part of the boat or her sails.
Please note that I am a sailor & a sober, attentive watch stander, unlike so many at sea on commercial ships.
Not only would I recommend that you NOT install the tri-color, I would really like to see them banned.

How did the sailboat get that close? No radar signature at all? Were the crew of the sailboat as unaware of you as you were of them?

It is an unfortunate truth that many boats don't have proper lights that work, and I've heard stories of people sailing with NO lights to save their limited power. Is it possible that this boat didn't have their light on until they were close enough to remember that they didn't have it on?

You site one instance of the many that I am certain you include in your experience. Are you saying that you have NEVER been able to see a masthead tri-color? What range was the radar on at the time? Was the sea state difficult for the radar to pick up small targets? What prevented you from having a radar target long before you could have seen any lights at all?

 

[Plumper II]

I had a similar incident to this north of Bermuda about 25 years ago. A small boat with no radar signature on a nasty night had no lights on. Our ship's noise must have woken him up because our first hint that he was there was him shining his flashlight on his sails. He was pretty close, about 200 yards. We were doing about 17 knots. He was very lucky. He should have had lights and an effective radar reflector. Thankfully radars are better now and lights consume less power. Even a chem light or anything would have been more visible. Ships stay away from unknown lights when at sea.

 

[Ross]

I was thinking about my radar signature. I have a skinny mast, and a cook stove. My engine is mostly below the water line. Everything else is radio transparent. On the other hand if I light a 6 candle power lantern on deck it can be seen for ten miles on a clear night.
If you see a light on the water it is probably a boat if you see an light above the water it is either an airplane, a star, or perhaps the masthead light of a boat. You say airplane light flash, so do boat lights on a rough sea at several miles.

 

[Hermit Scott]

I haven't really been sailing at night, except coming in later than expected a few weeks ago. I wanted to clear some light issues up.
Ross and I think Stu burn lanterns as anchor lights. Can I skip the mast head light altogether and just have an all around light on a pole on the stern or a lantern hanging on the backstay?
Ross we should have had a celebration for your 10,000th post. Congrats!

 

[Plumper II]

Yes.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Rule 30[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Anchored Vessels and Vessels Aground[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 meters and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]And[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica](e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the shape prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.

Inland US rules may vary. These are international rules.
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