I decided a while back that I like the look of the a tri-color masthead light (combo'd with an anchor light). This is for my O'Day 25. I'm also (still) rebuilding the interior. Part of that was a complete rewiring. Tell me the bad/good points you folk see in this idea. I'm planning on running a combination of two switches - on is for "running lights", and leads to a double position on/on switch that will be labled sail/power. When the running lights are on, and the other switch is set for sail, the bow side markers and stern light would go off, and the masthead light would go off. The tri-color would come on, and the light for the wind vane would come on. When the running lights are on, and the other switch is set for power, the bow side lights would come on, the stern light would come on, and the masthead light would come on. The tri-color and wind vane lights would go off. I know one of the negatives is that some folks recommend against tri-colors in heavily background lighted areas, preferring the lower bow and stern lights. I think the positives are that it clearly identifies the boat as a sailboat, and the "switch" situation is easier for me. I like the simplicity of having all the relevant lights set together. Ideas, thoughts, and/or suggestions?
TriColor Mast Light - Bad/Good Idea?
- Thread starter Herb Parsons
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Lights
By 'nasthead' do you mean the anchor light? The "Steaming Light" is not an "all around' white light, and when combined with the stern light creates an all around white light. The anchor light should not be used when sailing or powering.
By 'nasthead' do you mean the anchor light? The "Steaming Light" is not an "all around' white light, and when combined with the stern light creates an all around white light. The anchor light should not be used when sailing or powering.
Masthead
The masthead light is the steaming light. The anchor light on my combo set is an all around, and it'll be on a totally seperate switch.
The masthead light is the steaming light. The anchor light on my combo set is an all around, and it'll be on a totally seperate switch.
Go LED?
There is a nice little combination lamp that uses LEDs. A Tri-Color for sailing uses three LEDs 1 each Red, Green, and White. When switched to Anchor, the stern LED is used and white LEDs replace the Red and Green. They are available with a photo-diode that turns the anchor light on at dusk and of at dawn. Very compact, and low draw. We had one running as a Tri-Color for over 50 hours on a 18AH motorcycle battery draws something like .25A @ 12V Another option I like is the standard running lights with a two position switch that gives you masthead light under power and all 'round red and green at the masthead under sail (the COLREGS optional sailing lights). For Windex light I use a Davis MegaLight, the low draw automatic on-off anchor light with a clear top lens for the Windex. I turn it on for a second or two when I need to see the Windex, its off most of the time. I don't like having the Windex lit all the time and unless the Windex light is well shielded it can be mistaken as an all 'round white.
There is a nice little combination lamp that uses LEDs. A Tri-Color for sailing uses three LEDs 1 each Red, Green, and White. When switched to Anchor, the stern LED is used and white LEDs replace the Red and Green. They are available with a photo-diode that turns the anchor light on at dusk and of at dawn. Very compact, and low draw. We had one running as a Tri-Color for over 50 hours on a 18AH motorcycle battery draws something like .25A @ 12V Another option I like is the standard running lights with a two position switch that gives you masthead light under power and all 'round red and green at the masthead under sail (the COLREGS optional sailing lights). For Windex light I use a Davis MegaLight, the low draw automatic on-off anchor light with a clear top lens for the Windex. I turn it on for a second or two when I need to see the Windex, its off most of the time. I don't like having the Windex lit all the time and unless the Windex light is well shielded it can be mistaken as an all 'round white.
Thanks for the Suggestions
I already own the tri-color, but might consider replacing the lamps with LED's. The thought of the vane light being mistaken for an all round is well taken. I'll watch for options when I buy that one.
I already own the tri-color, but might consider replacing the lamps with LED's. The thought of the vane light being mistaken for an all round is well taken. I'll watch for options when I buy that one.
Well considered
Hello Herb, Moody & Mick - I appreciate the well considered remarks. I find it somewhat annoying when I see sailboats under power with both the standard running lights and a tri-color displayed at night.... it's nice to see folks who know the rules. LED's are nice, and I use one of those Davis ones for an anchor light when I don't want to draw 1.5 amps all night on my masthead and it's a crowded anchorage. Bottom line, you should only use a tricolor under sail with no other lights showing - not always practical in a high traffic area. How many sailboats actually have red over green (sailing machine) lights mounted on our rigs? I use the tricolor on occasion but am saving it for my offshore adventures! Good post, Trevor
Hello Herb, Moody & Mick - I appreciate the well considered remarks. I find it somewhat annoying when I see sailboats under power with both the standard running lights and a tri-color displayed at night.... it's nice to see folks who know the rules. LED's are nice, and I use one of those Davis ones for an anchor light when I don't want to draw 1.5 amps all night on my masthead and it's a crowded anchorage. Bottom line, you should only use a tricolor under sail with no other lights showing - not always practical in a high traffic area. How many sailboats actually have red over green (sailing machine) lights mounted on our rigs? I use the tricolor on occasion but am saving it for my offshore adventures! Good post, Trevor
It is all about the current draw
I'm assuming that you are going to be using your tri-color for night time sailing. If you are going to be under sail all night you need to look at the current the unit will be drawing. I've seen some draw 3 amps! and at 12 usage a night that is 36 AH per day. Not a boat wrecker but getting high enough to consider in the energy budget. I myself prefer to sail several days (ideally several weeks) without starting the motor. But then I'm a tree hugger/coral hugger.
I'm assuming that you are going to be using your tri-color for night time sailing. If you are going to be under sail all night you need to look at the current the unit will be drawing. I've seen some draw 3 amps! and at 12 usage a night that is 36 AH per day. Not a boat wrecker but getting high enough to consider in the energy budget. I myself prefer to sail several days (ideally several weeks) without starting the motor. But then I'm a tree hugger/coral hugger.
Nav Lights
A Combination Tri-Colour (mtd on mast-top) light is more visible at greater distances, but less visible at nearer distances, where separate hull or rail mountewd lights are more easily seen. Hence, for closer-quarters sailing, you might be better off with the deck/rail mounted running lights. For offshore work, the tr-colour works great. Remember also, that voltage drop is increased with longer feed cable runs (to mast-top). If adding the tri-colour to existing sidelights, I'd make the DT switch operate either upper OR lower lights. Never both.
A Combination Tri-Colour (mtd on mast-top) light is more visible at greater distances, but less visible at nearer distances, where separate hull or rail mountewd lights are more easily seen. Hence, for closer-quarters sailing, you might be better off with the deck/rail mounted running lights. For offshore work, the tr-colour works great. Remember also, that voltage drop is increased with longer feed cable runs (to mast-top). If adding the tri-colour to existing sidelights, I'd make the DT switch operate either upper OR lower lights. Never both.
Be careful
If you decide to try LED replacement bulbs in a fixture designed around incandescents, you may find that the light no longer meets COLREGS. Many LED's have a focused beam and do not work well behind lenses. I'd rig some sort of test fixture to compare the light patterns before I had the light at the top of the mast. Where a 5-10deg focused white LED might be a great choice is for the Windex. Very low draw and easy to shield since they run cool. I was surprised to find how little light is needed for the Windex. Even a small flashlight from the deck creates a very bright return and messes up my night vision. A candle would be about right for offshore ...
If you decide to try LED replacement bulbs in a fixture designed around incandescents, you may find that the light no longer meets COLREGS. Many LED's have a focused beam and do not work well behind lenses. I'd rig some sort of test fixture to compare the light patterns before I had the light at the top of the mast. Where a 5-10deg focused white LED might be a great choice is for the Windex. Very low draw and easy to shield since they run cool. I was surprised to find how little light is needed for the Windex. Even a small flashlight from the deck creates a very bright return and messes up my night vision. A candle would be about right for offshore ...
I vote with Gord
Masthead lights are tougher to see and, in my humble experience, can be even tougher to identify quickly - because they blend easily with shorelights in the background. I would want a masthead tricolor for an ocean crossing, but not in the backyard.
Masthead lights are tougher to see and, in my humble experience, can be even tougher to identify quickly - because they blend easily with shorelights in the background. I would want a masthead tricolor for an ocean crossing, but not in the backyard.
Masthead Running Lights
I once encountered a sailboat sailing with a masthead light. This was in the Puget Sound near Whidbey Island, and the Kitsap Penensula. I had a difficult time finding the boat connected with this light because from my helm the light seemed farther away, and high up. From a larger boat with a higher helm position than a 36' sloop it may have looked quite different. I think this is why they are recommended for 'Offshore' only, and not for near shore where other lights can confuse the issue.
I once encountered a sailboat sailing with a masthead light. This was in the Puget Sound near Whidbey Island, and the Kitsap Penensula. I had a difficult time finding the boat connected with this light because from my helm the light seemed farther away, and high up. From a larger boat with a higher helm position than a 36' sloop it may have looked quite different. I think this is why they are recommended for 'Offshore' only, and not for near shore where other lights can confuse the issue.
Yep Mick, that's my understanding too. Plus
a masthead light saves a bulb so it needs less power. But that's a big 'maybe' too. I think the most important reason to run a masthead light is for offshore sailing. Offshore, any conditions with much more than a 3 foot swell can mask a boats presence if it's using deck-level lights. At least for a short time. It might not be seen with a casual glance.
a masthead light saves a bulb so it needs less power. But that's a big 'maybe' too. I think the most important reason to run a masthead light is for offshore sailing. Offshore, any conditions with much more than a 3 foot swell can mask a boats presence if it's using deck-level lights. At least for a short time. It might not be seen with a casual glance.
Mast mounted tri-color---Bad idea
Not very noticable in close quarters. we almost hit one one night comming into Oak Harbor. It was an exceptionally dark night and i was concentrating on looking forward and this othet boat pulled out of a slip. we saw him the last minute. It wasnt til after the near miss that i noticed the mast tri-color. Doesnt matter much if i should have looked up or not, the point is that we almost collided.
Not very noticable in close quarters. we almost hit one one night comming into Oak Harbor. It was an exceptionally dark night and i was concentrating on looking forward and this othet boat pulled out of a slip. we saw him the last minute. It wasnt til after the near miss that i noticed the mast tri-color. Doesnt matter much if i should have looked up or not, the point is that we almost collided.
Are you sure that incident was the fault of the
'bad idea' tricolor? Sounds like they should have been looking where they were going and also turn on the right running lights. The tricolor has a purpose. That wasn't it, but your example doesn't make them a bad idea.
'bad idea' tricolor? Sounds like they should have been looking where they were going and also turn on the right running lights. The tricolor has a purpose. That wasn't it, but your example doesn't make them a bad idea.
Not quite, Ross
"The mast head tri-color is not a substitute for the bow and stern lights. It MAY be shown in addition to the bow and stern lights." You are confusing a Tri-colour Red/Green/White combination that IS a substitute for separate Red/Green/White deck level (more correctly life-line/rail level) lights with a the OPTIONAL all-around Red and Green that may be shown in addtion to the normal lights. 25b allows the Tri-colour instead of sidelights and a stern light on boats under 20 meters. 25c describes the optional lights From COLREGS: Rule 25 Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars (a) a sailing vessel underway shall exhibit: (i) sidelights; (ii) a sternlight. (b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20 meters in length the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule may be combined in one lantern carried at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen. (c) A sailing vessel underway may, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit at or near the top of the mast, where they can best be seen, two all-round lights in a vertical line, the upper being red and the lower Green, but these lights shall not be exhibited in conjunction with the combined lantern permitted by paragraph (b) of this Rule." ---
"The mast head tri-color is not a substitute for the bow and stern lights. It MAY be shown in addition to the bow and stern lights." You are confusing a Tri-colour Red/Green/White combination that IS a substitute for separate Red/Green/White deck level (more correctly life-line/rail level) lights with a the OPTIONAL all-around Red and Green that may be shown in addtion to the normal lights. 25b allows the Tri-colour instead of sidelights and a stern light on boats under 20 meters. 25c describes the optional lights From COLREGS: Rule 25 Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars (a) a sailing vessel underway shall exhibit: (i) sidelights; (ii) a sternlight. (b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20 meters in length the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule may be combined in one lantern carried at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen. (c) A sailing vessel underway may, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit at or near the top of the mast, where they can best be seen, two all-round lights in a vertical line, the upper being red and the lower Green, but these lights shall not be exhibited in conjunction with the combined lantern permitted by paragraph (b) of this Rule." ---
To Summarize a Little
The tri-color may be used instead of the side lights (those red and green lights on the bow are actually called side lights, not bow lights) and stern light, but never in addition to. TonyB, your point is well taken, but in my scenario, I would have the sidelights on the bow lit instead of the tri-color, since I would be motoring. And, as we both know, Oak Harbor doesn't allow sailing in and out of the slips. Of course, they didn't enforce that much before, and I doubt they do at all right now Actually, if one is motoring, a tri-color would be against the regs, since the steaming light must be higher than the side lights and stern light.
The tri-color may be used instead of the side lights (those red and green lights on the bow are actually called side lights, not bow lights) and stern light, but never in addition to. TonyB, your point is well taken, but in my scenario, I would have the sidelights on the bow lit instead of the tri-color, since I would be motoring. And, as we both know, Oak Harbor doesn't allow sailing in and out of the slips. Of course, they didn't enforce that much before, and I doubt they do at all right now
Actually, if one is motoring, a tri-color would be against the regs, since the steaming light must be higher than the side lights and stern light.Good Point Herb and Thanks Moody ..
Good point about the flexability and the note on the mast ( steaming ) light. Thanks Moody for the back-up and I'll help clarify the red over green thing.....that tell what business you are in. A pneumonic device to help remember this is "red over green, sailing machine". It lets others know that you are a sailboat when they cant see you at night. I used to know them all when i was a captain, another is Red over red, pilot is dead" if you see that, avoid at all costs. That means the boat is drifting with no control.
Good point about the flexability and the note on the mast ( steaming ) light. Thanks Moody for the back-up and I'll help clarify the red over green thing.....that tell what business you are in. A pneumonic device to help remember this is "red over green, sailing machine". It lets others know that you are a sailboat when they cant see you at night. I used to know them all when i was a captain, another is Red over red, pilot is dead" if you see that, avoid at all costs. That means the boat is drifting with no control.
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