Trickle charge

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Jan 22, 2008
1,483
Hunter 37 C sloop Punta Gorda FL
I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about a post in a battery thread. Post warned against trickle charging. Said it would cause sulfation. I can't find that post and I never heard that anywhere before.
Was it all a bad dream?
 
Jan 22, 2008
1,483
Hunter 37 C sloop Punta Gorda FL
Interersting, but that is not the post I dreamed of. Post was on this forum, advice was not to leave your boat plugged in. My Xantrex 2000 SW calls it float, but it puts out 3/4 amp or so into a 600+ A/H battery bank, whick accoridig to that thread is a "trickle", not a "float".
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,716
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Interersting, but that is not the post I dreamed of. Post was on this forum, advice was not to leave your boat plugged in. My Xantrex 2000 SW calls it float, but it puts out 3/4 amp or so into a 600+ A/H battery bank, whick accoridig to that thread is a "trickle", not a "float".
I would ignore that thread. There is lot's of misinformation in there. Good float chargers also do not always "shut off". Most simply maintain a voltage and the current flows as the bank accepts it. At times the current may be as low as 0.2A or so to maintain the voltage. Batteries don't naturally rest at 13.4V + so you need some current flowing to maintain 13.4V+. Some may pulse it some may apply it as the battery accepts it.

There is much misinformation out there around float charging 24/7 so it is hard to discern what is really true. The charger manufacturers say it's ok and with a good one this is mostly true. Real world experience tells me another story though as there are many factors involved.. I often see shorter life from banks left 24/7 on chargers than I do from banks "topped up" and then disconnected. Banks on solar that only see a few hours per day of "topping up" seem to do very well.

In the winter our batts are left on-board the boat. Cold weather benefits and can extend the life of lead acid batteries. It dramatically slows self discharge and can also slow the sulfation process way down. The batteries must be topped up to prevent freezing and if they are they can be good for 8 weeks plus in-between charges if the winter temps stay cold.

Last winter I charged them to full in early November and did not put a charge on them again until early April. The batteries were still at a resting open circuit voltage of 12.68 volts. Full on this bank is about 12.73V. If they had been in my basement I would have needed to top them up every three to four weeks due to the much higher temps.

I am not a big fan of 24/7 charging UNLESS you have loads that need that support like a fridge or you have some phantom loads that can't be shut off like a propane sniffer, stereo memory, ACR or Echo charger, electric bilge switch etc. etc. and this draw amounts to 0.2A or more.. For a fridge I might consider a dedicated power supply to avoid the constant charging of the batteries.

There are also vast quality differences in chargers so you need to be careful who's "float charger" you're using.. Good float chargers should always have battery temp sensors as increases in battery temp affect what the voltage needs to be. I have one customer with a flag blue hull. His bank sits behind the settee and the compartment gets VERY hot. I have measured it at over 105F at 8:30 am once the sun has hit the hull. Keeping his float charger at the same voltage when the banks get hot can easily lead to over charging despite the rather low "float voltage".. He gets about two years from his bank, likely due to this heat..
 
Jan 22, 2008
1,483
Hunter 37 C sloop Punta Gorda FL
Bill, it was probably this one: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=132350

Yes, that was the one. I had never heard that keeping batteries on a charger would cause sulfation.

About the battery life, I have no basis for comparison, I have never not plugged my boat in when at a marina. I have been happy with Sam's and Walmart golf cart battery life of 4 or more years. I expect more out of the Trojan's, but by then I will be 75+ and Ii may not know how old the batteries are.
 

Bob S

.
Sep 27, 2007
1,805
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
Bill,

You've got to start dreaming of cruising destinations! ;)
 
Jan 4, 2006
7,308
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Re Float Charge for 24/7 .............................

.................... I think my experience may be a little different from others.

I keep my batteries (two 115AH wet cell Trojans + one Trojan starter battery) on a Xantrex TC10B battery charger (max. output 10 A). I keep an eye on the batteries with a Link 10 battery monitor. The batteries are on the charger 24/7 except for when cruising (which is nowhere near what I would like it to be). The two house batteries are now seven years old and the starter battery is the original at twelve years old. When showing a discharge on the house batteries of 50% on the Link 10, the voltage is around 12.08 V (Fluke meter reading) after a good night's rest so I think the house batteries are in reasonably good shape after seven years.

I see that when the batteries are left for more than 24 hours and have dropped to float charge, the charger is at 13.4 V ( Fluke says 13.38 V) and the amps are 0. Putting my Fluke across the Link 10 shunt show 0.00 V hence no amperage flow at that particular time.

According to Nigel in his "Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual" bible, sulphated batteries are the result of plates sitting in an uncharged state for long periods of time. This is a good recommendation for leaving batteries plugged in 24/7. I think the catcher here is to leave them plugged into a "good" charger 24/7. The original charger on my 1999 H310 was a piece of junk which was famous for frying batteries and I was only able to get four years out of my previous Trojans. I didn't have the Link 10 at the time but I suspect the float was far more than 13.4 V.

Good battery maintenance goes without saying here, but my vote goes for leaving the batteries on a "good" smart charger 24/7 for a long life.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,716
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
.................... I think my experience may be a little different from others.

I keep my batteries (two 115AH wet cell Trojans + one Trojan starter battery) on a Xantrex TC10B battery charger (max. output 10 A). I keep an eye on the batteries with a Link 10 battery monitor. The batteries are on the charger 24/7 except for when cruising (which is nowhere near what I would like it to be). The two house batteries are now seven years old and the starter battery is the original at twelve years old. When showing a discharge on the house batteries of 50% on the Link 10, the voltage is around 12.08 V (Fluke meter reading) after a good night's rest so I think the house batteries are in reasonably good shape after seven years.

I see that when the batteries are left for more than 24 hours and have dropped to float charge, the charger is at 13.4 V ( Fluke says 13.38 V) and the amps are 0. Putting my Fluke across the Link 10 shunt show 0.00 V hence no amperage flow at that particular time.

According to Nigel in his "Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual" bible, sulphated batteries are the result of plates sitting in an uncharged state for long periods of time. This is a good recommendation for leaving batteries plugged in 24/7. I think the catcher here is to leave them plugged into a "good" charger 24/7. The original charger on my 1999 H310 was a piece of junk which was famous for frying batteries and I was only able to get four years out of my previous Trojans. I didn't have the Link 10 at the time but I suspect the float was far more than 13.4 V.

Good battery maintenance goes without saying here, but my vote goes for leaving the batteries on a "good" smart charger 24/7 for a long life.
Ralph,

The 10TB may pulse the current on/off after the batteries are charged, some do this and some just keep a small current flowing.

I have installed a couple of 10TB's and not noticed them turn off. In this scenario you can't have a voltage of 13.4V without some current behind it. With no current the battery voltage will begin to drop and if pulsing on/off the current will flow again so the charger can maintain 13.4V at the battery terminal.

If you have 0.00A for any good length of time the battery voltage will simply drop off. The Link shunt is a 50mV shunt and reading voltage across it would need to be done with the mV setting and then transposed to current. You would see 0.00V across it even if it was supplying current. 50mV on that shunt is 500A and 0mV is 0 amps.
 
Jan 22, 2008
1,483
Hunter 37 C sloop Punta Gorda FL
Bill,

You've got to start dreaming of cruising destinations! ;)
All of this, including Mary painting the deck, is in preparation for spending 10 months on the boat after some local shakedowns this fall. We plan to leave here Feb 1 for the Miami Boat show, arrive in the Chesapeake around May 1 and stay for the Annapolis Boat Show in October 2012, then head back to Florida. Somebody told us there are 54 rivers and 8,000 miles of shoreline in the Chesapeake. We have flown in, chartered out of Annapolis and flown back out. Liked what we saw. Want to see some of the rest.
 
Jan 4, 2006
7,308
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Re No Current Flowing at 0.00V ............................

............. was my oversight. As I remember it, it was 0.00 "mV" across the shunt when in the float stage, which did seem odd but as you say, it may by shutting off periodically.

What is strange is that (when removed from the charger) the battery bank WILL remain at 13.4 V without load for quite some time (about an hour) and very slowly sink back to 12.8 V which would be the normally expected galvanic relation in sulphuric acid for the two dissimilar plates. Interesting to know how they retain this artificially high voltage. Or maybe we're looking at a current loss in the nano-amp range.

I'll leave that to those with deeper, and more recent knowledge than mine.
 
Oct 1, 2011
7
Beneteau 40 Marion
This group seems to be a good start for some battery advice. 2 questions.

We are going to have our new boat hauled (at Barden's in Marion, MA) and are thinking about winter battery maintenance. Our old boat had small batteries which I removed and charged every month or so in my basement.

Our new boat has a large house batter and we don't want to remove that! We also have a dedicated battery for the engine and one for the bow thruster.

1)
Is the best way to keep the batteries charged over the winter to run shore power to the boat and let the Xantrex Charger keep them charged all winter? Or, should we buy a marine charger and "trickle charge" the batteries all winter? My gut feeling tells me the shore power/Xantrex route is the way to go...


2)
We have a 400ah house bank. About one month ago we left the boat and left the refridgerator on low. We were due back in 1 week. A long story short, we did not make it down the next weekend. I own the boat with 2 friends and when one of them went down last weekend the house battery was TOTALLY dead. Is that battery now toast? Can it be saved? He let engine run for an hour and it lasted for a short while but I assume it will take much more than that. Let me know your thoughts. The battery was new this spring in the boat. I don't know manufacturer name off hand. I bought the boat with 2 friends new from Benneteau in Spring of 2011. Do I owe them a new battery??????

Thx in advance!

Brent
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,716
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
This group seems to be a good start for some battery advice. 2 questions.

We are going to have our new boat hauled (at Barden's in Marion, MA) and are thinking about winter battery maintenance. Our old boat had small batteries which I removed and charged every month or so in my basement.

Our new boat has a large house batter and we don't want to remove that! We also have a dedicated battery for the engine and one for the bow thruster.

1)
Is the best way to keep the batteries charged over the winter to run shore power to the boat and let the Xantrex Charger keep them charged all winter? Or, should we buy a marine charger and "trickle charge" the batteries all winter? My gut feeling tells me the shore power/Xantrex route is the way to go...


2)
We have a 400ah house bank. About one month ago we left the boat and left the refridgerator on low. We were due back in 1 week. A long story short, we did not make it down the next weekend. I own the boat with 2 friends and when one of them went down last weekend the house battery was TOTALLY dead. Is that battery now toast? Can it be saved? He let engine run for an hour and it lasted for a short while but I assume it will take much more than that. Let me know your thoughts. The battery was new this spring in the boat. I don't know manufacturer name off hand. I bought the boat with 2 friends new from Benneteau in Spring of 2011. Do I owe them a new battery??????

Thx in advance!

Brent

Brent,

A1-

Many yards specifically insist that the batteries be 100% disconnected, from the boat and chargers or solar.. This is a very good idea. Simply charge them to full in the fall, disconnect and top up perhaps once or twice during the winter, if that. Sulfation and self discharge drastically slow down when temps are cold. If the batteries are fully charged they will not freeze. Our batts have been on-board every winter and not on any charger. Last winter I never even topped them up and they were still within a couple % of a 100% full charge.

A2- Yes, I'd say you owe them a new battery as it is the right thing to do. A battery that sat completely dead for more than a few days will be pretty badly compromised if not totally ruined. Consider 6V batts as they are much lighter and easier to move not to mention less money.
 
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