Traveller upgrade

[bigpapaporsche]

One of my main objectives this year is to become a better technical sailor! That is to say, improve my Sail Trimming techniques. In order to do this, I want to have my Traveller more user friendly so I can rely on it more to control the Sail Shape and the boat's balance and power. Our boat is a 2006 Capri 22 with the Race Package. I've considered the Harkin Windward Sheeting car, but at all most $400.00 its hard to justify it. I further understand that in Choppy conditions/ Light Wind, it maybe problematic. It has been suggested to me to try the Traveller System the J22 boats use, in addition to adding a "Continuous Line," ILO two separate Traveller control lines. The attached pictures show the parts I made to copy the J22's system, which basically uses both a Vertical and Horizontal Cleat. The benefit of this is that the leeward Cleat can either be cleated or released from the Windward side, using the "Continuous Line." I fabricating the Angle Bracket from a piece of 2.5 aluminum angle, the width of the cleat, and drilling a 1 inch hole for a $3.00 Fair Lead. I want to stress the Traveller Line should be a Continuous Line type to fully benefit from this system! I already had two other cleats in my procession, so I didn't have to buy the addition cleats. I was able to do both sides for a total cost of $30.00. Note, the two cleats, one Vertical Cleat for the Windward Side operation, and the Horizontal Cleat that can be released/cleated, using the Continuous line from the same side of the boat. Also, the bracket is temporarily mounted on a piece of wood so I could illustrate the two cleating positions. Thats a lot of bang for the buck! I can't wait to give it a try.

 

[Ted]

Traveler upgrade

What is the traveler purchase power with the setup you are describing? The Harken windward sheeting car is a really nice piece of hardware. In extremely light wind conditions there can be issues with the Harken system but it's easy to overcome by placing cam cleats at the end of the traveler track. The cam cleats can also be used to "park" the traveler car when not in use.

 

[Joe]

That's a good idea... the continuous line is the key... a horizontal cleat allows you to preset the leeward traveler position before tacking. I might angle the contraption forward a bit so the windward (vertical) cleat points towards the trimmer.

 

[Joe]

What is the traveler purchase power with the setup you are describing? The Harken windward sheeting car is a really nice piece of hardware. In extremely light wind conditions there can be issues with the Harken system but it's easy to overcome by placing cam cleats at the end of the traveler track. The cam cleats are used to "par" the traveler car when not in use.

Ted, in a system like this, you can have any purchase you desire. The harken system has all the cleating on the car.. with separate lines to each side. Bigpapaporche's system uses a continuous traveler with the cleating at the ends of the traveler. In the picture, I would simply add the horizontal bracket and cleat to the existing vertical cleat...

 

[slaume]

If I understand what you are trying to do, I believe you need to turn one of those cleats around. As it is in the photos, both cleats are doing the same job, Steve.

 

[Brian D]

I don't understand the need for purchasing power on the traveler. If one needs to adjust the traveler all one need do is head up a little to take the pressure off the main and make the adjustment. That is if one has a huge main.

On my boat, the main is large but I can still manage the adjustment. My problem is keeping the car in one spot. That does not require purchasing power, it requires a good cleat and non-stretch line.

I too want to put in a traveler that I can adjust and cleat down but also find the commercial products too steep in price. I don't need a high performance racing rig on my boat. A car with cleats and two end cleats and I will be happy.

 

[Jackdaw]

I don't understand the need for purchasing power on the traveler. If one needs to adjust the traveler all one need do is head up a little to take the pressure off the main and make the adjustment. That is if one has a huge main.

On my boat, the main is large but I can still manage the adjustment. My problem is keeping the car in one spot. That does not require purchasing power, it requires a good cleat and non-stretch line.

Brian,

You need the power of the purchase if you want maximum performance. Luffing up the boat slows it, and is often not possible due to boat positions in a race. You could also ease the main, but that slows you as well.

The other bad side effect of doing it that was is you cannot see the effect of your changes; you have to guesstimate where to put it, come back on the wind and see what happened. It's much better to trim in the actual breeze/AOA, and get the correct setting. That's true all the time, and just while racing.

 

[Ted]

I don't understand the need for purchasing power on the traveler. If one needs to adjust the traveler all one need do is head up a little to take the pressure off the main and make the adjustment. That is if one has a huge main.

Playing the traveler is very important if you want to keep your boat on its feet. When it's breezy you want to be able to adjust your traveler quickly and effortlessly. If you don't have sufficient purchase power you will become fatigued while constantly adjusting your traveler location. The traveler is not a "set it and forget it" type of sail trim adjustment.

 

[Chief RA]

I have used a continous line on my traveler for 27 years and rarely saw another boat rigged that way. Good concept! Chief

 

[Brian D]

Ted, for that matter, none of the sail trim adjustments are "set it and forget it". But the halyards and sheets don't have purchasing power, unless one calls the winch "purchasing power". If one is racing, then yes, constant adjusting of all the controls are important, especially the traveler. But for the cruiser, an adjustment here and there is all that is required.

I am not sure the intent of the OP other than to keep the traveler car in place. As I would also what the same. My problem is I use screw type stops on my rail. They do not always hold so I would add cleat type stops and a cleated car. This to keep the traveler in place.

 

[Joe]

Ted, for that matter, none of the sail trim adjustments are "set it and forget it". But the halyards and sheets don't have purchasing power, unless one calls the winch "purchasing power". If one is racing, then yes, constant adjusting of all the controls are important, especially the traveler. But for the cruiser, an adjustment here and there is all that is required.

I am not sure the intent of the OP other than to keep the traveler car in place. As I would also what the same. My problem is I use screw type stops on my rail. They do not always hold so I would add cleat type stops and a cleated car. This to keep the traveler in place.

With all due respect, Brian, once you start using a more sophisticated system its value becomes obvious. Cruiser vs. racer is not the issue. Control is the bottom line.

A ball bearing car on an adequate length track, with the appropriate purchase.. is a joy to handle. And YES... the winch provides purchase power. Some vessels use winches for mainsheets and traveler operations. Depends on how things were set up.

 

[Joe]

If I understand what you are trying to do, I believe you need to turn one of those cleats around. As it is in the photos, both cleats are doing the same job, Steve.

What he is trying to do is set the leeward side of the traveler from the windward side of the boat. The horizontal cleat is used when the trimmer is sitting across the cockpit and doesn't want to move over to use the vertical cleat. The continuous traveler line is like a big loop.. rather than two separate lines that often get misplaced.

If you use the leeward horizontal cleat from the windward side.... when you move over after the turn, you can relocate the control line to the vertical cleat. If you go back over you can release the vertical cleat and, if you choose, re set It on the horizontal cleat from across the cockpit.

 

[Brian D]

Joe, that goes without saying. We will leave it at that.

 

[Ted]

Traveler upgrade

Brian, the original poster said "One of my main objectives this year is to become a better technical sailor!" I would imagine he wanted to get the most out of his boat whether he was racing, day sailing or cruising. To achieve that, adjustments to all sail trim controls would be necessary. I would consider winches as a means to increase purchase power although not generally referred to that way. Power ratio is the typical nomenclature but it's the same idea. I would imagine that it would be nearly impossible to play your traveler with a pin or screw stop setup like the one you described.

 

[gettinthere]

Garhauer!

 

[Brian D]

Ted, correct, I do not have the minute movement as a nice car with cleats would have. I so do desire that, but not for the same reasons. Mine would be for stability as sometimes the pins pop and the car moves.

 

[BayMan]

I learned to love the traveller when reaching in about 18 kts with plenty of gusts. Kept one hand on the traveller and was able to ease it for a gust and bring it right back (with the purchase power) when the gust subsided. Boat was screaming.

 

[Joe]

Playing the traveler is a good example of how apparent wind changes in relation to true wind speed and boat speed.

When sailing upwind, if true wind speed increases (a gust, for example) the apparent wind direction will move aft, the boat heels... so..... drop the traveler down to maintain angle of attack, get the boat upright and stay on course. If the boat speed picks up the apparent wind will move forward and the sailor can pull the traveler up to stay balanced. The mainsail trim remains constant as the apparent wind direction oscillates because one never has to adjust the mainsheet.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I'm pretty sure that if I were starting from scratch, I would purchase the Harken windward sheeting traveler. No matter how you configure it, having to cleat and un-cleat lines both on the windward side and the leeward side is a pia, especially if the traveler is mounted inside the forward end of the cockpit where it interferes with seated passengers or crew, as mine is.

I'd love to have an opportunity to see how the Harken system performs, because my impression is that when two ends of the traveler lines have to be managed simultaneously to avoid tangling the car in a slack line, it's just not worth it ... I still generally play the mainsheet for gusts instead. When I keep the vang snugged up, there just isn't any detectable difference. I use the traveler for angle of attack but not for playing with gusts.

 

[Jackdaw]

I'm pretty sure that if I were starting from scratch, I would purchase the Harken windward sheeting traveler. No matter how you configure it, having to cleat and un-cleat lines both on the windward side and the leeward side is a pia, especially if the traveler is mounted inside the forward end of the cockpit where it interferes with seated passengers or crew, as mine is.

I'd love to have an opportunity to see how the Harken system performs, because my impression is that when two ends of the traveler lines have to be managed simultaneously to avoid tangling the car in a slack line, it's just not worth it ... I still generally play the mainsheet for gusts instead. When I keep the vang snugged up, there just isn't any detectable difference. I use the traveler for angle of attack but not for playing with gusts.

Scotty,

The Harken WSTC is a novel piece of kit, but no panacea. In some ways it exchanges one problem for another. Losing the requirement to un-cleat the old windward line is very trick, but sadly the fancy mechanism that controls it can auto-release when the load gets light and bumpy. So Harken suggests (you guessed it) CLEATING the the lazy line! Just what we were trying to avoid!

A single line system that you can trip from the high side works just as well if not better.