Travelers
- Thread starter Jfelkins
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Very basically, the traveler changes only the angle of the main, not the shape of it, whereas the mainsheet changes the shape of the sail in addition to the angle.
Check out Don's Sail Trim Guide ...
Buy it from this store. It is a very nice reference for questions such as this.
A traveler will allow you to change the angle of attack without impacting the twist of the mainsail. It is not essential, except for sailing with the proper sail trim. However, do you have a boom vang? If you do, you can essentially control twist with your vang and control angle of attack with your main sheet.
The general idea is that without a traveler, you have to ease your main sheet to change the angle of attack when bearing off from, say, close haul to close reach or beam reach. When you ease your mainsheet, the boom has a tendancy to lift as well as swing out, which opens the leech and induces twist. If you have too much twist, then you will need to crank on the vang to close the leech. You can sail without all of the sail controls, but your sail trim must be compromised if you do.
Buy it from this store. It is a very nice reference for questions such as this.
A traveler will allow you to change the angle of attack without impacting the twist of the mainsail. It is not essential, except for sailing with the proper sail trim. However, do you have a boom vang? If you do, you can essentially control twist with your vang and control angle of attack with your main sheet.
The general idea is that without a traveler, you have to ease your main sheet to change the angle of attack when bearing off from, say, close haul to close reach or beam reach. When you ease your mainsheet, the boom has a tendancy to lift as well as swing out, which opens the leech and induces twist. If you have too much twist, then you will need to crank on the vang to close the leech. You can sail without all of the sail controls, but your sail trim must be compromised if you do.
Just to offer another view, a traveler is nice to have for sail trim but there are usually lots of more important stuff on a new boat to a new sailor that could pay greater dividend. It's obviously a matter of opinion which is the best investment for your circumstance but things like larger self-tailing winches, some basic electronics, better anchor, etc can be equally if not more important and which only you can judge
Fundamentally, the traveller allows or controls the proper amount of 'twist' in the upper portions of the sail.
The probable main benefit of a traveller for a 'newbie' sailor is: It allows one to better 'head up' or 'feather' the boat in gusty or moderate/strong wind conditions ..... and without the mainsail from 'powering up' when releasing or easing the mainsheet.
Without a traveller (AND without a good vang) and when hit by a gust, one will normally ease or release the mainsheet to 'spill wind'. Easing the mainsheet will allow the boom to rise and that can radically 'power-up' the sail - increasing heel, etc. ... just the opposite reaction of what you are trying to do when releasing the mainsheet.
With a traveller (AND vang), once can simply momentarily ease or 'drop' the traveller, instead of and/or releasing the mainsheet, and keep the mainsail 'flat', without 'powering up'.
An Oday 23 has a relatively 'short' keel, and the proper use of the traveller will help keep such a boat 'upright' and not skidding off to the side when the winds are 'up'.
A good 'basic' book on proper sail trim (includes good basic information on the use of a traveller, etc. ) can be found RIGHT HERE on SBO: http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/category-books.htm?cat=1321
;-)
The probable main benefit of a traveller for a 'newbie' sailor is: It allows one to better 'head up' or 'feather' the boat in gusty or moderate/strong wind conditions ..... and without the mainsail from 'powering up' when releasing or easing the mainsheet.
Without a traveller (AND without a good vang) and when hit by a gust, one will normally ease or release the mainsheet to 'spill wind'. Easing the mainsheet will allow the boom to rise and that can radically 'power-up' the sail - increasing heel, etc. ... just the opposite reaction of what you are trying to do when releasing the mainsheet.
With a traveller (AND vang), once can simply momentarily ease or 'drop' the traveller, instead of and/or releasing the mainsheet, and keep the mainsail 'flat', without 'powering up'.
An Oday 23 has a relatively 'short' keel, and the proper use of the traveller will help keep such a boat 'upright' and not skidding off to the side when the winds are 'up'.
A good 'basic' book on proper sail trim (includes good basic information on the use of a traveller, etc. ) can be found RIGHT HERE on SBO: http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/category-books.htm?cat=1321
;-)
I looked into adding a traveler to my Oday 23, and in the end decided it wasn't worth it. I consulted with sailmakers, hardware manufacturers and other sailors and concluded that there just isn't a good way to add one in the Oday 23 without putting it smack in the middle of the cockpit. I have determined that I get most (not all) of the same sail control through judicious use of the boom vang I added instead. The vang was easy and cheap to add.
I have a traveler on a 25 footer and I'm just experimenting with it. I added a vang this spring and I'm just experimenting with it. (one more time and it's a pattern). I plan on getting a Boomkicker and . . . begin to experiment with it. Drop Don Gillmette a line on the experts forum if the explanations here don't do it for you.
Agreeing with HulilauMike ...
My traveler is mounted on what I call a bridgedeck (a bench just aft of the companionway). It couldn't be in a more inconvenient location right in the middle of the cockpit. Besides that, without adding a very expensive system to trim the traveler with lines, I have track stops which are used to set the traveler position.
Contrary to what RichH posts (with due respect to his opinion), it may be ridiculous to be playing the traveler for gusts, what with crew that may have their ass in the way and the logistics of unloading the car to move the stops. All my depowering for gusts is done by easing the main sheet and there is no way that easing the sheet powers-up the main instead. Easing the sheet has far more affect on changing the angle of attack than it does in allowing the boom to lift to increase twist. Besides that, I don't understand the argument. If you have twist properly established already, how does increasing twist power-up the sail? You should already have the sail powered up with the 'right' twist to begin with and by dumping the mainsheet, you should be de-powering by allowing increased twist. Ok, I can see the argument that when a gust hits you, the 'right' amount of twist is momentarily changed so that by easing the main sheet you are powering the main ... but is this more applicable to large boats set up for racing?!?!
I agree with Don ... there must be more essential equipment considerations.
My traveler is mounted on what I call a bridgedeck (a bench just aft of the companionway). It couldn't be in a more inconvenient location right in the middle of the cockpit. Besides that, without adding a very expensive system to trim the traveler with lines, I have track stops which are used to set the traveler position.
Contrary to what RichH posts (with due respect to his opinion), it may be ridiculous to be playing the traveler for gusts, what with crew that may have their ass in the way and the logistics of unloading the car to move the stops. All my depowering for gusts is done by easing the main sheet and there is no way that easing the sheet powers-up the main instead. Easing the sheet has far more affect on changing the angle of attack than it does in allowing the boom to lift to increase twist. Besides that, I don't understand the argument. If you have twist properly established already, how does increasing twist power-up the sail? You should already have the sail powered up with the 'right' twist to begin with and by dumping the mainsheet, you should be de-powering by allowing increased twist. Ok, I can see the argument that when a gust hits you, the 'right' amount of twist is momentarily changed so that by easing the main sheet you are powering the main ... but is this more applicable to large boats set up for racing?!?!
I agree with Don ... there must be more essential equipment considerations.
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No offense to some here but a traveler is a vital sail control that has no substitute. Eliminating the traveler is simply a cost cutting strategy of the builder. Playing the traveler in puffs is exactly what a prudent skipper should do. As RichH says, dropping the traveler to reduce angle of attack without powering up the main by easing the mainsheet keeps the boat sailing on her lines. A flattened sail is the ideal power down control that is needed in gusting conditions. A twisted off main does just the opposite and induces more power. Of course dumping the mainsheet completely will depower but the downside here is a sail that is flogging itself to death and a complete loss of forward drive from the sail.
Not having a traveler is like always driving your car in second gear, sure it works,.. sometimes.
Not having a traveler is like always driving your car in second gear, sure it works,.. sometimes.
A traveler is indeed useful for trim, but your 23 is only a little larger than my V21 and could get in the way or have crew/passengers in the way of effectively working the traveler controls. I opted for a vang(helpful in use for stepping the mast as well if equipped with extra long lines) and larger cooler to hold more beer - still considering the water ballon launcher
Alan: I agree completely about the usefulness of a traveler and the additional control it gives. However, the problem with installing one on an Oday 23 is considerable. After much research, I came to the conclusion that it is impossible to put a traveller track on the coach roof unless you are willing to do major surgery on the companionway hatch (it would need to be made smaller in order to provide space for the track bases, or if you were willing to do without coach roof grab rails. Even if you were ok with either of these ideas, it would require some serious custom hardware to fit. You can't put the track on the bridge deck because that space is already taken up by the centerboard control pendent line. I also don't think you could put one on the cockpit sole. It is too narrow to provide sufficient play. You could put a track across the seats, but it would have to be far enough back from the companionway to be able to stand in between the bridge deck and track, but forward enough so that it didn't interfere with hatches builit into the seats. Mounting the track there would give you a well placed traveller, but would basically make the boat a "two-seater", with a real shin-knocking, tripping hazard smack in the middle of a cockpit that was tight to begin with. The only other option I could discern was to mount the traveler on the top of the push pit. This would provide a nice, long track and keep it out of the way. However, my rigger and sailmaker both advised that the current pushpit mounting was insufficient to support the strain of a traveler. The push pit would need to be remounted with much heavier hardware and backing plates. While access to the underside of the transom is relatively easy on the port side of the boat, the starboard side is a different story. At least one new acess plate would need to be cut into the boat in order to do this work. And on top of this work, I was advised by at least two hardware manufacturers that it was likely that custom-made mounting brackets would be needed to accomodate their standard traveler track to the curve in the push pit. In short, an expensive, difficult installation.
Each of the experts I spoke with told me that installation of a boom vang would be a much more cost-efficient way to provide sail shape control and help prevent too much twist and main sail overpowering in gusts. I have found this to be true. While I miss having a traveler, the vang is very efficient at keeping the boom from raising too high. Perhaps the vang is especially effiicent on the Oday 23 because the boat is a masthead rig and the main is relatively small to begin with. In any case, I have come to terms with the fact that I will likely never have one on this boat.
I agree completely ...
that room in the cockpit is a big issue on a smaller boat and a traveler can make it very complicated. I have a traveler on the bridge deck and it is always a big problem with more than 2 in the cockpit. We have stoppers, so adjusting the traveler is inconvenient at best, and it makes it downright impossible to use it in reaction to gusts. I even bought the system to make it line controlled but I found that the block and cleat assembly can't be mounted without blocking the operation of my lockers. I can solve the problem by lengthening the track just less than an inch on either side (I have to buy a new track to do that) but I have not resolved to do this because I am afraid that adding lines in the cockpit will just get tangled up under foot and be too chaotic.
In any case, I started a thread in the Expert Sail Trim forum because this has stirred up a discussion on twist (with regard to sail trim) that I would love to have posters expand upon.
that room in the cockpit is a big issue on a smaller boat and a traveler can make it very complicated. I have a traveler on the bridge deck and it is always a big problem with more than 2 in the cockpit. We have stoppers, so adjusting the traveler is inconvenient at best, and it makes it downright impossible to use it in reaction to gusts. I even bought the system to make it line controlled but I found that the block and cleat assembly can't be mounted without blocking the operation of my lockers
. I can solve the problem by lengthening the track just less than an inch on either side (I have to buy a new track to do that) but I have not resolved to do this because I am afraid that adding lines in the cockpit will just get tangled up under foot and be too chaotic.In any case, I started a thread in the Expert Sail Trim forum because this has stirred up a discussion on twist (with regard to sail trim) that I would love to have posters expand upon.
Temp Traveler
I put this together to use as a traveler when needed.
I clip the block to the end of the boom. The block with the clam cleat I clip to the windward life lines.
When I tack, this setup goes slack. I switch it over after I'm stable on the new course.
It also doubles as a preventer when running down wind.
I put this together to use as a traveler when needed.
I clip the block to the end of the boom. The block with the clam cleat I clip to the windward life lines.
When I tack, this setup goes slack. I switch it over after I'm stable on the new course.
It also doubles as a preventer when running down wind.
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I had a spectacular traveller failure a couple seasons back; but that's another story. In my opinion, most newbies will use the helm to depower in gusts. If you're not racing or cruising long distances, but rather just out learning and having fun, then why not. Eventually, with experience, other controls come into play. Moreover, most boats are rigged with a little weather helm and trimmed so as to aggrevate it. Heading up in a puff takes out the heel and calms those inexperienced nerves, most quickly I should add. All that early learning experience tends to be forgotten by many salts. Learn by doing, experimenting. If one is extremely novice, they probably shouldn't be out in excessive 'puffs' anyway.
Edit: 'Playing the mainsheet' is not only essential for wet boats and sailboards, it's damn fun!
Edit: 'Playing the mainsheet' is not only essential for wet boats and sailboards, it's damn fun!
I agree that a traveler is a very useful sail trim control. But in a small boat that was not designed with a place for it, the work to add one is just too much.
I would suggest that the OP make sure he has (in order)
1) an easily played main sheet
2) a good vang, adjustable from the cockpit
3) an easily adjusted outhaul
4) a topping lift that is slack while sailing or adjustable.
5) at least the 1st reef setup
6) a good cunningham
7) easily adjustable jib cars.
All of these are less work and just as important that a traveler.
When he has all these and is still itching to modify the boat, then add a traveler
PS. I like the portable preventer/windard sheet arrangement.
I would suggest that the OP make sure he has (in order)
1) an easily played main sheet
2) a good vang, adjustable from the cockpit
3) an easily adjusted outhaul
4) a topping lift that is slack while sailing or adjustable.
5) at least the 1st reef setup
6) a good cunningham
7) easily adjustable jib cars.
All of these are less work and just as important that a traveler.
When he has all these and is still itching to modify the boat, then add a traveler
PS. I like the portable preventer/windard sheet arrangement.
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