Traveler

Status
Not open for further replies.
May 11, 2004
273
RAPTOR Hotfoot 20 Ghost Lake
Help settle a discussion.
My understanding is that if the boom is windward of the centreline the leach of the main begins to act as an air brake.
Are there any situations where the boom should be carried windward of the centre line?
( The boat under discussion is a high aspect fractional rig but I wold be interested in hearing about mast head rigged as well ).
 
May 17, 2004
2,111
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Normally, sail trim wisdom dictates that when closehauled you move the boom to the centerline of the boat only.

Years ago I raced/sailed with a friend who was a "live board" on a Newport 30. The waterline was under water and never saw the light of day!! We never won anything and almost sank the Shoreline YC club race boat when they crossed us and we hit them because we didn't see them until it was too late. I did find that with that boat I could crank the boom a bit past center and she'd give a little more speed, so you have to experiment to see what your little beauty can take.

Obviously, if you go too far past center the sail will eventually act as a brake.

My good friend was Tom Heron and he was the commodore of Shoreline YC in Long Beach, Ca. The YC is located where it is today because of his efforts. He wrote the introduction to my book and we lost touch years ago. Can any of you Long beach, Ca sailors who are member of Shoreline YC tell me if Tom's still around?
 
Jun 22, 2012
39
Catalina 27 std dinette mission bay
As Don stated, I don't think there's a hard, fast rule on your question.

What I think is absolutely acceptable is for you to experiment with your boat's sail trim and make note of how she performs different configurations.... if you can improve your boat's speed, power or pointing by nudging the boom above the centerline.... then it's an acceptable adjustment.

So....all you have to do is keep an eye on the speed or compass when you change things to determine their effectiveness.
 
May 23, 2007
1,306
Catalina Capri 22 Albany, Oregon
Well . . .

I've been known to pull mine past center when I'm close hauled and trying to pinch in really light wind. Don't know if it really helps but the tiny bit of luffing at the leading edge goes away so I like to think it does. :D

What really helped this week was loosening the overly tight leech line on the genoa so it didn't curl inward and choke the slot between it and the main. Verboten has always been pretty decent in light wind (tall rig, big main) but I was amazed. 3 knots (no current) with just enough wind to barely riffle the mirror like water. :dance:
 
Jul 7, 2009
218
Catalina 30 Mark I Stockton, Mo
I would think that the sails don't know or care where the centerline of the boat is. I pull my main past centerline so that I can get the jib really tight when close hauled. It helps me point higher than limiting the boom to the centerline of the boat. Catalina 30 Tall Rig with a 130 Genny.
 
May 17, 2004
2,111
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
RichH, Joe From San Diego, Stu J, Alan (where did you go!!): What's your 2 cents on this subject?
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,432
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
I can't bring myself to pulling the boom past the centerline ... the closest I get is just a few inches from centerline. Something tells me that the airflow hooking to windward has to be a brake.

But I do like to pull the traveler car way far to windward so that I can loosen the leach. I feel like I can get more consistent air flow from top to bottom and the tell tales on the leach seem to indicate it.

One difficulty I have when single-handing (or when Sue is otherwise occupied), is that with the car all the way to windward, the main is essentially luffed when completing a tack until I get the genny set and then re-set the traveler car position. I know it might be better to center the car before tacking, but I skip that step in the name of expedience.
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,204
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
"I know it might be better to center the car before tacking, but I skip that step in the name of expedience."
Yup, Scott, you already know the drill, so don't nag ;-))
 

LuzSD

.
Feb 21, 2009
1,009
Catalina 30 San Diego/ Dana Point, Ca.
Joe11868 said:
I posted a comment (#3) under the name Victory... Joe from San Diego
Oh how interesting! I wondered who this new "Victory" was and thought to myself " great, another voice of logic and experience"! Cool!
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,353
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
You might want to think of it this way: The boat is going forward. You move the boom to windward. Wouldn't that make the mainsail a brake?

In ye olden daze, folks would set their anchors by "backing the main." Why do it when you're trying to sail?

That little bubble is good, not bad. The "books" will explain why. It usually takes a few pages to explain with aerodynamic theory and my fingers are tired already this morning. :)
 
Jul 7, 2009
218
Catalina 30 Mark I Stockton, Mo
You might want to think of it this way: The boat is going forward. You move the boom to windward. Wouldn't that make the mainsail a brake?
However:

If you did move the boom excessively to windward, you would, in theory, be turning the sail away from the wind. If you then turned the boat to windward til it luffed, the boat could point more to the wind. If you go crazy with it, you would get to a point where the jib couldn't "keep up" with the main, and you'd start getting a braking action out of the main.

I believe that this is how I can get another 5 degrees or so into the wind, versus limiting the boom to centerline. Thoughts??
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,353
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
The boat is designed so that even if you have inboard tracks, the slot between the mainsail and the jib leech is essentially fixed. Moving the mainsail higher will only serve as a brake. You also have to think about the direction of the keel - it doesn't move the way you claim the main would if you pulled it all the way, for instance.
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,323
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
I like Stu's thinking.... it's like putting the "flaps" down on an airplane.
 
Jun 25, 2012
942
hunter 356 Kemah,the Republic of Texas
Sometimes we would push the mainsail past center line to windward on my J-24. Sailing backwards down the fairway out of the Y.C. Marina and out to the starting line..Back in the day.:eek:
 
Jan 19, 2012
4
Oday 302 Babylon
I've had the main to windward in very light winds and grinned ear to ear as I passed other boats.
 

RichH

.
Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Assuming constant and well formed sail twist, each sail is designed to have a specific angle of attack when mounted either to a boom or to a tack—fairlead car angle (about .... typically close to 10° -12° off of the boats centerline. Bringing the boom 'across' the centerline to the windward side will 'put on the brakes' and cause massive separation stall on the leeward side --- a parachute!!!! If you want to try this, just watch to see what happens to the tell tales, and that alone should tell you that this 'technique' will be a disaster - the leech and perhaps the midcord tell tales will be pointing FORWARDS on the lee side. This is what you'd expect from a parachute; and, parachutes dont fly well 'to weather'.

There is ONE time when racing and in light winds when one 'may' slowly and for short duration, slowly pull the boom across the centerline ---- to send massive turbulence back to a closehauled and overtaking-from-the-stern competitor. The competitor should totally lose flow attachment, sail into a large 'header' due to the massive rotating turbulence being 'sent' to him/her; and, it will take some time for his 'flow' to realign, etc. --- it will be like he/she just fell into a hole in the water and will have to radically bear away on the 'rotor' that youve 'sent' him. The caution is however that you may cause your own boat to come to a stop or severely slow down. Better to do this by power pinching as described in the next paragraph as it sends a more compact 'rotor' to a competitor on your stern.

Power pinching or 'putting the flaps down' for brief periods involves pulling LOTS of strain on the mainsheet when closehauled to deform (hook-up) the leech. This will cause the camber or amount of draft of the sail to radically increase - similar to a larger aircraft with its 'flaps down'. This is an almost standard technique by top class racing sailors near the end of a long closehauled beat ... put the flaps down just several boat lengths before tacking (where sailing a strict VMG course is no longer a benefit) with the result of saving 'several' boatlengths of distance on the 'next' leg because the boat is now radically 'climbing to weather'.
Racing is a game on 'inches' and what you save on the 'next' leg by 'hooking up the leech' at the end of a windward leg can be substantial even that the boat is now slowing down. The 'best' can usually save one or two boatlengths or more per 'leg' over someone simply straight line beating then tacking over; but, dont 'overdo' the leech hooking.
However if you bring the boom over to the windward side to do this ... enjoy being passed by just about every boat in your fleet. ;-(
 
Status
Not open for further replies.