Traveler Upgrade form 4-1 to 6-1?

[Ward H]

My 93 C30 came with a 4-1 traveler, brand unknown. It has a very nice Harkin triple block w/ BBs for the main sheet.
Thinking about upgrading it to a Garhauer 6-1 traveler of if the beam can be reused install the parts for 6-1.
I try to remember to drop the traveler prior to tacking but at times I want to play with the adjustment while the main is under load.

I know 6-1 will make it easier to adjust the traveler than 4-1 but will it be enough to allow adjusting under load without falling off or easing the main?

@Hayden Watson What purchase do you have on the traveler?

Here's the traveler. Does anybody recognize the brand, maybe by the traveler car?

Thanks

 

[Hayden Watson]

I raised mine by one purchase from 4 to 5. I called Garhauer and they set me up with another sheeve and spacer plate for each side so that I had two sheeves on each side and moved the becket to the car.

 

[Hayden Watson]

If your car is getting hard to move under load, it is also likely to be caused by the Delrin bearings getting bad. I replaced all of mine as part of the same upgrade and it made a huge difference. Garhauer has kits to rebuild the bearings that includes several hundred balls and a short piece of track to load them on.
In my recent solo cruise, I noticed that the car was not moving as well as it should so I will get another set of balls. I still have the track piece so do not need that.
When the bearings are good, I can easily trim the traveler under any load with 4:1 but the 5:1 made it possible for my wife or teenage daughter to do it.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Garhauer 6-1 traveler of if the beam can be reused install the parts for 6-1.
I try to remember to drop the traveler prior to tacking but at times I want to play with the adjustment while the main is under load.

I know 6-1 will make it easier to adjust the traveler than 4-1 but will it be enough to allow adjusting under load without falling off or easing the main?

I do, too, but YES, it will. One of the best upgrades I did, long ago. Caution: do NOT oversize the traveler control lines 'cuz they expand over time and jam the sheaves, follow Garhauer's sizing, 3/8 too big, 5/16 is perfect. Hayden's right about calling for details, I did, too, and deleted the cam cleats since I put those on the cabintop.

 

[Hayden Watson]

I do, too, but YES, it will. One of the best upgrades I did, long ago. Caution: do NOT oversize the traveler control lines 'cuz they expand over time and jam the sheaves, follow Garhauer's sizing, 3/8 too big, 5/16 is perfect. Hayden's right about calling for details, I did, too, and deleted the cam cleats since I put those on the cabintop.

Yep, I much prefer the cleats on the cabin top.
Ward, I would replace the bearings before I changed the purchase to a complete replacement to the newest system. I found that most of my problems with trimming the traveler was due to the balls getting flat spots or broken. I am getting ready to replace mine for the second time and Papillon is newer than your boat.
And I can tell you that your car and track are definitely Garhauer. The rebuild is very easy. You remove the end cap which is held on with a single screw into the end of the track. Then remove the control lines and slide the car off the end of the track. As soon as the car clears the track, several hundred ball bearings will go bounsing everywhere. [Pro tip: cut a box to fit around the base of the riser to catch them]
The repair kit from Garhauer will have several hunderd delrin balls and a piece of track. Here is the one they sent me. Once the balls are removed, you place the car over this track overhanging the end so that just the rounded curve of the four oval tracks shows and then tape it tightly in place so that it cannot move. You then stand it on end with those bits of curve on top and feed the balls into each of the four grooves until you cannot get another to fit.
Then carefully cut the tape and slide the car so that it is fully on the short track and tape is again so that it cannot move. Then take it to the boat and butt the end of the track against your traveler track and roll the car from the load tract onto the traveler track. I put a strip of masking tape across the joint on the top and both bottom flanges so that it didn't move. If you get a gap, the new balls will fall out.
It made a huge difference in how easy the car moved.

 

[Hayden Watson]

You can test your bearing to see if they need to be rebuilt by pulling the main sheet down very tight with the sail down and the topping lift to hold the boom up. This will load up the car. With maximum tension on the car the boom should move back and forth by hand with very little effort. If it is jerky or cannot be move, rebuild the bearings. When I did mine, about 25% of the balls in the top two grooves were broken. This let the car touch the track at certain parts of the rotation.

 

[jssailem]

I can not specify the traveler maker. It looks a bit like a Harken. They have their blocks on the side of the car. I think Barton also made a car with the blocks on the side.

 

[Hayden Watson]

It is a 5" Garhauer. That was the standard for all C30 Mk2's.

 

[jviss]

This reminds me to lube the car, etc., on my Harken traveler. Also, a light film of grease on the shackle for the block that attaches to the car. Harken sent me a vial of their special "One Drop" lube free of charge! I should use it.

 

[PaulK]

On our J/36 we had a double-ended mainsheet: a continuous line that had a 4:1 advantage when you pulled on both lines (shown coming out of the cams in the photo below). When you only pulled one, the mechanical advantage was 8:1. This allowed us to handle the large main (352 square feet) quite easily, no matter what the wind conditions were.

 

[Stu Jackson]

@PaulK But this thread is about travelers, not mainsheets.

 

[PaulK]

@PaulK But this thread is about travelers, not mainsheets.

Oops. Please note how our J/36 traveler is set up with 4:1 controls that go from the traveler forward to cheek blocks, port & starboard. The lines can then go up from the cheek blocks to cam cleats on the sides of the cockpit (not in the picture), where a crew can adjust them. OR, the lines can go from the cheek blocks back to the cams on the side of the cockpit (visible in the picture with nothing in them) so that the helms person can adjust them from there. Quite convenient.

 

[Dalliance]

I have an 8:1 purchase Garhauer traveler on the cabin top. I’ve had it for at least twelve years now and it’s quite easy to adjust under load. Sorry, not sure about your current traveler track brand. Kind of looks like it could be Garhauer. Maybe compare it on-line or call them. I’ve found them to be very helpful.
I changed my cabin top cleats from V-cleats to Spinlock PXR Cam Cleats last year and don’t know why I didn’t do that years ago. Big improvement.

 

[Ward H]

I changed my cabin top cleats from V-cleats to Spinlock PXR Cam Cleats last year and don’t know why I didn’t do that years ago. Big improvement.

I did the same a couple of years ago following a recommendation from @Hayden Watson . Yes, it was a big improvement. Mine are just about where yours are located. I also use a PXR Cam Cleat for my mainsheet, a huge improvement over the OEM clam cleat.

 

[Hayden Watson]

I did the same a couple of years ago following a recommendation from @Hayden Watson . Yes, it was a big improvement. Mine are just about where yours are located. I also use a PXR Cam Cleat for my mainsheet, a huge improvement over the OEM clam cleat.

I keep spending other people's money but have not made the change myself. I have three PXR's on Papillon and love them. One of these days a traveler cam cleat will slip and will have an excuse to replace mine.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

I believe it is an old Nicro Fico "H" track, which is quite antiquated. The bearings really are just 4 wheels which ride on the inside of the 'H' sides (2 on each side). This track was best used for a straight up load and really nothing to the side, which is susceptible to binding. NF later came out with the "X" track which handled loads from the side much better.

 

[Ward H]

Just to follow up, I emailed Garhaurer with the same photo I posted here.
I asked:
Cost for BB replacement kit?
How to increase my purchase to 5-1?
Mark emailed back that I needed a C30 MkII upgrade kit.
I called and spoke to him. His suggestion was the upgrade kit that included a new car and end blocks from the MT-2-TP Traveler kit shown on their website. They would move the becket to the car for 5-1 purchase. Cost would be $475. I wouldn't need the cam cleats so maybe a little less.

I asked about the possibility of just changing out the BBs. He said the car was so old he had no idea how many bearings would be needed. I would have to take the car off, take out the bearings and count them. Then I could order the qty needed at $0.11 each. I'm not too keen on that. I don't want down time so I'd have to take out the bearings, hope I don't lose any, put them back and order the replacements.
I already replaced the sheaves on my setup with BB sheaves so there wouldn't be any real advantage there by getting the MKII upgrade kit.

So I do plan moving the beckets from my end blocks to the car and I'll then have 5-1 purchase. I'll also see how well the car moves. If the car moves OK maybe increasing the purchase by one will give me the reduced effort I seeking.

If not, I'll go with the upgrade kit.

 

[dlochner]

Just to follow up, I emailed Garhaurer with the same photo I posted here.
I asked:
Cost for BB replacement kit?
How to increase my purchase to 5-1?
Mark emailed back that I needed a C30 MkII upgrade kit.
I called and spoke to him. His suggestion was the upgrade kit that included a new car and end blocks from the MT-2-TP Traveler kit shown on their website. They would move the becket to the car for 5-1 purchase. Cost would be $475. I wouldn't need the cam cleats so maybe a little less.
View attachment 219168
I asked about the possibility of just changing out the BBs. He said the car was so old he had no idea how many bearings would be needed. I would have to take the car off, take out the bearings and count them. Then I could order the qty needed at $0.11 each. I'm not too keen on that. I don't want down time so I'd have to take out the bearings, hope I don't lose any, put them back and order the replacements.
I already replaced the sheaves on my setup with BB sheaves so there wouldn't be any real advantage there by getting the MKII upgrade kit.

So I do plan moving the beckets from my end blocks to the car and I'll then have 5-1 purchase. I'll also see how well the car moves. If the car moves OK maybe increasing the purchase by one will give me the reduced effort I seeking.

If not, I'll go with the upgrade kit.

The time to replace the BBs is this winter. No loss of sailing time.

 

[Hayden Watson]

Wow, that is a different response than I have ever gotten form Garhauer but I always dealt with Guido.
Here is the email they sent me a couple of weeks ago. I need (126) ea. of ¼" Delrin and Torlon balls. I will order some extras. If you do not buy the track section, they "can" be loaded on the boat using the traveler track, but it is more difficult because you do not have gravity helping to fill the top side.

 

[jviss]

Then I could order the qty needed at $0.11 each.

Are they steel or Delrin?

For Delrin that's actually not a bad price. For steel should be about 1/2 that, I think.