I posted this in a reply to another post...thought it might get overlooked there. I have always thought about adding a traveler...I remember a thread about a year ago that said, roughly, that a traveler is not much help on boats shorter than 26 feet. I have seen them on shorter boats though, and with my limited sailing knowledge/experience it would seem like a great addition. Comments?
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Travelers
I am a new sailor,,and I have a "74" 25 Venture with a nice traveler,,I have very little hours sailing,but,I very quickly found out that the traveler can get me very close to pointing toward the wind,,I see a lot of pics on here of boats with no traveler and frankly,,I just don't understand why anyone would not have one on their boat,,P.S. is there any one with an old Mac like mine in central Va,?If so I would love to hear from you,,,& Do I have the oldest Mac 25 venture around here ?? lol..
I am a new sailor,,and I have a "74" 25 Venture with a nice traveler,,I have very little hours sailing,but,I very quickly found out that the traveler can get me very close to pointing toward the wind,,I see a lot of pics on here of boats with no traveler and frankly,,I just don't understand why anyone would not have one on their boat,,P.S. is there any one with an old Mac like mine in central Va,?If so I would love to hear from you,,,& Do I have the oldest Mac 25 venture around here ?? lol..
Whoever said that is a moron
Sorry, but I had to be blunt. I can think of dozens of racing boats shorter than 26 feet for which a traveler is an essential piece of equipment. Not to mention that a traveler helps ANY sailboat sail upwind more effectively. Whether it's worth the cost and hassle of adding a traveler to your MacGregor is often a topic for debate, (and a quite valid one) but whether or not they have benefits for boats of any size is no question.
Sorry, but I had to be blunt. I can think of dozens of racing boats shorter than 26 feet for which a traveler is an essential piece of equipment. Not to mention that a traveler helps ANY sailboat sail upwind more effectively. Whether it's worth the cost and hassle of adding a traveler to your MacGregor is often a topic for debate, (and a quite valid one) but whether or not they have benefits for boats of any size is no question.
Older V25 sans traveler
Malcolm & Darlene and everyone- I thought I had the oldest V 25 around. I would be interested to hear more about your Old 25 with the traveler. Did you install it or did it come that way? I have always been pleased with my 1978 Venture 25 without one, but I just daysail and overnight with her and don't really have an interest in racing. How much difference are we talking here? 2 deg closer? 5, 10 degrees? I don't know if one would sail more efficiently or just closer. I always thought that I could get fairly close on my own. I don't know about newer Macs but older Mac/Venture 25's(or at least mine) have the mainsheet aft of the cockpit. Is it more efficient to install one if your mainsheet is forward or aft? Does the attachment point on the boom and the relative distance from the mast make a difference in the effect of a traveler? When sailing downwind does it add to stresses caused by a snap or accidental jibe and having a vang? My boat has no rail so installing one would not be a problem , but how would you install one with the stern rail? I am considering that modification for another reason, but still might consider adding a traveler if it was worth it. I even have to rework the glass back there as the aftstay is beginning to pull out and needs to be reinforced. Sounds like time to all the aft projects at once. So if anyone has more technical information I would be interested in hearing it. "not much help on boats shorter than 26 feet" is too non specific for me. How exactly does it make you point better? Can someone point me to an article or something? None of my sailing books or manuals explain in any detail. Consider the can of worms opened... Mark the blacksmith/machinist
Malcolm & Darlene and everyone- I thought I had the oldest V 25 around. I would be interested to hear more about your Old 25 with the traveler. Did you install it or did it come that way? I have always been pleased with my 1978 Venture 25 without one, but I just daysail and overnight with her and don't really have an interest in racing. How much difference are we talking here? 2 deg closer? 5, 10 degrees? I don't know if one would sail more efficiently or just closer. I always thought that I could get fairly close on my own. I don't know about newer Macs but older Mac/Venture 25's(or at least mine) have the mainsheet aft of the cockpit. Is it more efficient to install one if your mainsheet is forward or aft? Does the attachment point on the boom and the relative distance from the mast make a difference in the effect of a traveler? When sailing downwind does it add to stresses caused by a snap or accidental jibe and having a vang? My boat has no rail so installing one would not be a problem , but how would you install one with the stern rail? I am considering that modification for another reason, but still might consider adding a traveler if it was worth it. I even have to rework the glass back there as the aftstay is beginning to pull out and needs to be reinforced. Sounds like time to all the aft projects at once. So if anyone has more technical information I would be interested in hearing it. "not much help on boats shorter than 26 feet" is too non specific for me. How exactly does it make you point better? Can someone point me to an article or something? None of my sailing books or manuals explain in any detail. Consider the can of worms opened... Mark the blacksmith/machinist
dont forget the tiller
You couldnt install a travler on the rear, unless you did some radical changes with the rudder and tiller, or installed it above the tiller. I just have the original mainsheet setup, no travler, but a simple boom vang, it works good enough for me.
You couldnt install a travler on the rear, unless you did some radical changes with the rudder and tiller, or installed it above the tiller. I just have the original mainsheet setup, no travler, but a simple boom vang, it works good enough for me.
How much improvement?
I hear a lot of opinions about better, but not any real numbers. Greatly? How much? Tell me tell me! Can anybody give me some idea of the difference in angles or percentages? While I am not a Master Sailor, I sail pretty damn well and haven't had a problem sailing into the wind, pointing angle always seemed good. I have my V25 and a little Nordica 16, both are rigged almost identically and both sail well into the wind, whether its heavy wind or not. Questioning- Mark
I hear a lot of opinions about better, but not any real numbers. Greatly? How much? Tell me tell me! Can anybody give me some idea of the difference in angles or percentages? While I am not a Master Sailor, I sail pretty damn well and haven't had a problem sailing into the wind, pointing angle always seemed good. I have my V25 and a little Nordica 16, both are rigged almost identically and both sail well into the wind, whether its heavy wind or not. Questioning- Mark
Traveller
In 10-12 Knot wind: Close haul improved from 40 to 35 degree with the traveller to leeward. Because I can pull the main sheet down to make the sail more flat. About >0.5 Knots speed improvement. If the traveller is in the middle, the sail is more baggy. Baggy sail is better for down wind. Heeling is reduced by a little, say 2-5 degrees which helps due to the tippiness of the M26S with high center of gravity. Reaching improved by a little cause you can relex the sail by moving the traveller to windward side and make the sail off center. For running I just leave the traveller in the middle and use the vang. This may not sound much but 0.5 knots and a few degrees higher win races. The whole idea of sail trim is to make the the telltales fly. There is a great article by Roger Macgregor about sail trim. You can look for it in Google. My recommendation: If you like to mess around for that little bit of speed or racing, get a traveller. If you are just cruising around, save the money for the beer.
In 10-12 Knot wind: Close haul improved from 40 to 35 degree with the traveller to leeward. Because I can pull the main sheet down to make the sail more flat. About >0.5 Knots speed improvement. If the traveller is in the middle, the sail is more baggy. Baggy sail is better for down wind. Heeling is reduced by a little, say 2-5 degrees which helps due to the tippiness of the M26S with high center of gravity. Reaching improved by a little cause you can relex the sail by moving the traveller to windward side and make the sail off center. For running I just leave the traveller in the middle and use the vang. This may not sound much but 0.5 knots and a few degrees higher win races. The whole idea of sail trim is to make the the telltales fly. There is a great article by Roger Macgregor about sail trim. You can look for it in Google. My recommendation: If you like to mess around for that little bit of speed or racing, get a traveller. If you are just cruising around, save the money for the beer.
traveller position
I have a 26S without a traveler. I am thinking about adding one to the boat. It seems most people mount the track as shown in the picture Kaizen posted. I find this eats up some cockpit space even when anchored as no one wants to sit on that track. I noticed on a new 26M the track was mounted forward as close to the bulkhead as possible. Is there any reason not to do the same on an S boat ? Would the bail have to be moved forward on the boom as well ? Bob
I have a 26S without a traveler. I am thinking about adding one to the boat. It seems most people mount the track as shown in the picture Kaizen posted. I find this eats up some cockpit space even when anchored as no one wants to sit on that track. I noticed on a new 26M the track was mounted forward as close to the bulkhead as possible. Is there any reason not to do the same on an S boat ? Would the bail have to be moved forward on the boom as well ? Bob
Traveler Install
Part of the positioning process is what is underneath and I expect most installers want to cover up the old center point where the mainsheet attached. When at anchor, I center the traveler, or remove the mainsheet bottom attach point (quick release shackle) and attach it to the lifeline, then I have an open cockpit, just lay a cusion over the track. For me, the traveler makes such a difference in sail shape, that I'd lose the area completely, rather than go back to a fixed point mainsheet. John S
Part of the positioning process is what is underneath and I expect most installers want to cover up the old center point where the mainsheet attached. When at anchor, I center the traveler, or remove the mainsheet bottom attach point (quick release shackle) and attach it to the lifeline, then I have an open cockpit, just lay a cusion over the track. For me, the traveler makes such a difference in sail shape, that I'd lose the area completely, rather than go back to a fixed point mainsheet. John S
To Race or not to Race? That is the Question
Richard, I have seen travelers on smaller boats and don't think that is the right question. Yesterday I talked to a very experienced racer of big and small boats and he said that it depends on whether you race or not. If not, then the minor changes in sail shape and performance are not worth the expense and cabin blockage of a Mac traveler. If you want to race, that is another question.
Richard, I have seen travelers on smaller boats and don't think that is the right question. Yesterday I talked to a very experienced racer of big and small boats and he said that it depends on whether you race or not. If not, then the minor changes in sail shape and performance are not worth the expense and cabin blockage of a Mac traveler. If you want to race, that is another question.
!
Bud Vase
Yeah, we put flowers in there, and sometimes other things like, winch handles and canned drinks, cell phones and handheld gps units. Just whatever you want.
Yeah, we put flowers in there, and sometimes other things like, winch handles and canned drinks, cell phones and handheld gps units. Just whatever you want.
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