I need some halp in deciding what boat to buy. I am looking at 2 Oday 28's (among other boats), and I can't figure out which configuration will work better for me. I intend to do mostly daysailing (some coastal cruising), with a little Wednesday evening round-the bouy work. The two options are (1) a 1980 version, with the traveler on the bridge deck, just aft of the companionway, and (2) a 1985 version, with the mid-boom sheeting at the front of the companionway. Both boats have a wheel. It seems to me that option (1) will be most efficient at the leeward marks and in general, as far as being in control of the main sheet, but that the mainsheet in the front of the cockpit and in the way of the companionway will be a real pain for passengers. Option (2) will give a really wide open cockpit, but coming around a leeward mark with having to wrap the mainsheet around a self-tailing winch on port side of the cabintop would at the least require a dedicated crew member to pull in the main. As I will be often sailing short-handed (you are always short-handed at the leeward mark, I am in a definite quandry. Surely most of you have experience with the pros and cons of at least one of these options, or some other comments on the Oday 27 (I'm also considering various Cat 27s). Any help, or some way to get around either of the configurations? Thanks.
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oops
oops, that was supposed to say Oday 28, not 27. (But Cat 27) )was also supposed to say mainsheet, not msinsheet)
oops, that was supposed to say Oday 28, not 27. (But Cat 27) )was also supposed to say mainsheet, not msinsheet)
mainsheet
sidw; the first time the bridgedeck mainsheet wraps around someone's neck or flogs someone, you'll wish you went with the cabin top arrangment. Cockpit mainsheets provide better control, but they are only for the very experienced.
sidw; the first time the bridgedeck mainsheet wraps around someone's neck or flogs someone, you'll wish you went with the cabin top arrangment. Cockpit mainsheets provide better control, but they are only for the very experienced.
Thanks, Larry
That was pretty much my sentiment, but they seem to have built a lot of boats built that way. With the midboom sheeting, the sheet usually runs back to the mast and over to the port winch. Is that winch usually necessary? I've seen a fewboats where they put a cam cleat right at at the traveler fiddle block and run the line up over the companionway to the skipper. Ive also seen the line run thru a stopper clutch in front of the winch, which is great for getting the line in, but you still ned a crew member to release it. Are there any innovative solutions to all this? The system I was used to in my old Ensign had a rear traveler On the aft deck, so the sheet was above anyone's neck, and we ran the sheet forward along the boom to a "head Knocker" cleat in the middle of the boom, but in that boat, the skipper is sitting just behind the middle of the boom, so the sheet is dangling just at the right spot to grab. That certainly is not the case with these boats.
That was pretty much my sentiment, but they seem to have built a lot of boats built that way. With the midboom sheeting, the sheet usually runs back to the mast and over to the port winch. Is that winch usually necessary? I've seen a fewboats where they put a cam cleat right at at the traveler fiddle block and run the line up over the companionway to the skipper. Ive also seen the line run thru a stopper clutch in front of the winch, which is great for getting the line in, but you still ned a crew member to release it. Are there any innovative solutions to all this? The system I was used to in my old Ensign had a rear traveler On the aft deck, so the sheet was above anyone's neck, and we ran the sheet forward along the boom to a "head Knocker" cleat in the middle of the boom, but in that boat, the skipper is sitting just behind the middle of the boom, so the sheet is dangling just at the right spot to grab. That certainly is not the case with these boats.
Mainsheet/traveller location
Go with the aft sheeting arrangement since you'll be sailing short-handed and racing, the closer the traveller is to the helm the more you'll use it. Most folks with a mid-boom set up are cruisers and they tend to set it and forget it.... especially the traveller. If you're racing short handed the skipper can tend the mainsheet and traveller while one or two crew can handle the sheets, halyards and control lines. A Catalina 27 with end-boom sheeting is very convenient to operate short handed because the traveller is at the back of the cockpit. Having the traveller on the bridge deck is definitely less convenient for your non-sailing guests, but way more accessible for the short-handed crew. The mainsheet doesn't pose as big a problem because you can always run the single sheet back to the cockpit. The traveller, however, is very inconvenient to adjust when it's on the cabin top. Sidw, my personal opinion is that I wouldn't make this issue determine which boat I purchased unless all other issues were even. Why? Because you can always change the sheeting position if you don't like it. Buy the best boat.... based on hull, engine, sail and rigging conditions. Extra gear and cabin layout are also important.
Go with the aft sheeting arrangement since you'll be sailing short-handed and racing, the closer the traveller is to the helm the more you'll use it. Most folks with a mid-boom set up are cruisers and they tend to set it and forget it.... especially the traveller. If you're racing short handed the skipper can tend the mainsheet and traveller while one or two crew can handle the sheets, halyards and control lines. A Catalina 27 with end-boom sheeting is very convenient to operate short handed because the traveller is at the back of the cockpit. Having the traveller on the bridge deck is definitely less convenient for your non-sailing guests, but way more accessible for the short-handed crew. The mainsheet doesn't pose as big a problem because you can always run the single sheet back to the cockpit. The traveller, however, is very inconvenient to adjust when it's on the cabin top. Sidw, my personal opinion is that I wouldn't make this issue determine which boat I purchased unless all other issues were even. Why? Because you can always change the sheeting position if you don't like it. Buy the best boat.... based on hull, engine, sail and rigging conditions. Extra gear and cabin layout are also important.
I go with Joe, but
Larry makes a valid point. You have to decide whether the performance gain is worth a little inconvenience. If you mostly have inexperienced or non-competitive sailors on board, then the priorities are different versus sailing with a crew that is more geared toward sailing the boat fast. I race my 30 year-old-boat in phrf events every chance I get, and for me it's an easy choice - I gladly give up a little cockpit space for the ergonomic racing gain, and when singlehanding you tend not to make less trim adjustments if they are hard to do. But as Joe says, you can always modify the boat - make sure you buy the best one first.
Larry makes a valid point. You have to decide whether the performance gain is worth a little inconvenience. If you mostly have inexperienced or non-competitive sailors on board, then the priorities are different versus sailing with a crew that is more geared toward sailing the boat fast. I race my 30 year-old-boat in phrf events every chance I get, and for me it's an easy choice - I gladly give up a little cockpit space for the ergonomic racing gain, and when singlehanding you tend not to make less trim adjustments if they are hard to do. But as Joe says, you can always modify the boat - make sure you buy the best one first.
Cabin top for sure
Control line everywhere in the cocpit and an accidental jibe could seriously injure an inexperienced crew member. We have a list of things we want and don't want on our next boat. The Mid boom travler is at the top of the don't want list.
Control line everywhere in the cocpit and an accidental jibe could seriously injure an inexperienced crew member. We have a list of things we want and don't want on our next boat. The Mid boom travler is at the top of the don't want list.
sheeting
first, buy a boat from a company still around, we are sure glad we did. second, call that company and ask why they use cabin top travelers instead of asking people you don't know. this is, after all, a catalina board.
first, buy a boat from a company still around, we are sure glad we did. second, call that company and ask why they use cabin top travelers instead of asking people you don't know. this is, after all, a catalina board.
Umm Mortyd Catalina has made boats with both
end boom sheeting and mid boom sheeting. The pro's for endboom sheeting is more leverage (less block and tackle needed) for same amount of power trimming the sails. 2nd pro is easy quick access for 'instant' tweeking from the helm. The con's for endboom sheeting are pretty obvious and mentioned already. The @$%*&@ thing is ~always~ in your way at anchor and while sailing If I was in a speedy lightweight racing boat ( new C&C's) and racing I'd take the end-boom/cockpit travellers The pro's for midboom sheeting are pretty obvious and mentioned already -- its out of your way. Other than the access freom the helm being slightly limited, the con's for midboom sheeting are more in theory but in reality are not valid in a well designed system. In theory you don't have enough leverage, but in reality with the new mainsheeting and traveler systems you can get great leverage. The other "in-theory" con is single point attachment at mid boom and that could be a weak spot for the boom. In reality most new boats (and even newer Catalina's) is NOT a single point attachment at mid boom , but 3 point attachment with multiple purchases. Fella's its all in the details of the individual design
end boom sheeting and mid boom sheeting. The pro's for endboom sheeting is more leverage (less block and tackle needed) for same amount of power trimming the sails. 2nd pro is easy quick access for 'instant' tweeking from the helm. The con's for endboom sheeting are pretty obvious and mentioned already. The @$%*&@ thing is ~always~ in your way at anchor and while sailing If I was in a speedy lightweight racing boat ( new C&C's) and racing I'd take the end-boom/cockpit travellers The pro's for midboom sheeting are pretty obvious and mentioned already -- its out of your way. Other than the access freom the helm being slightly limited, the con's for midboom sheeting are more in theory but in reality are not valid in a well designed system. In theory you don't have enough leverage, but in reality with the new mainsheeting and traveler systems you can get great leverage. The other "in-theory" con is single point attachment at mid boom and that could be a weak spot for the boom. In reality most new boats (and even newer Catalina's) is NOT a single point attachment at mid boom , but 3 point attachment with multiple purchases. Fella's its all in the details of the individual design
Depending...
...on how many crew you are going to use? If you are single handing at all, you would be MUCH better off with a tiller. Climbing out from behind the wheel each time you need to make an adjustment(which is all the time) will be a real pain. That said, the ideal traveler location would be in the cockpit. It makes for faster adjustments and when at anchor the traveler car can be moved to one side to clear the companion way. I doubt crew will be running up and down during any racing. You are fortunate that you haven't yet purchased any boat and still have the ability to make a critical choice. PS ...this not just a Catalina board!
...on how many crew you are going to use? If you are single handing at all, you would be MUCH better off with a tiller. Climbing out from behind the wheel each time you need to make an adjustment(which is all the time) will be a real pain. That said, the ideal traveler location would be in the cockpit. It makes for faster adjustments and when at anchor the traveler car can be moved to one side to clear the companion way. I doubt crew will be running up and down during any racing. You are fortunate that you haven't yet purchased any boat and still have the ability to make a critical choice. PS ...this not just a Catalina board!
sheeting
catalina has made boats with aft sheeting, but i don't believe they do anymore - at least not bigger ones. the point of what i suggested is that rather than asking an anomymous board, catalina is still there and quite willing to answer questions. even the president and founder.
catalina has made boats with aft sheeting, but i don't believe they do anymore - at least not bigger ones. the point of what i suggested is that rather than asking an anomymous board, catalina is still there and quite willing to answer questions. even the president and founder.
Sheeting
Personally, I don't think it makes much difference where you locate the traveler or mainsheet. It is more like what the sailor is used to and comfortable with. The Garhauer system I used has ample power to do the job. The big thing is ease of operation as "folks will do what is easy and not do what is not" - case in point is pin type fairleads. In my case, I prefer the mid boom position for both the traveler and mainsheet. I was trying to think of a reason why I prefer that setup but i can't come up with one. When I first purchased my C30 the boat had a curved track traveler plus mainsheet blocks that were so old they hardly worked. The first thing I did was replace the mainsheet system with a Garhauer product. I then replaced the curved track traveler with the Garhauer straight track system. This amounted to a 1000% improvement. The next thing I did was bring both the traveler lines and mainsheet back to the helm. Later I also brought the rigid vang line to the helm. I also had Garhauer build me a 2' winch handle so I could trim the jib from the helm. I could make basic sail trim changes and never leave the helm. Had I wanted to leave the helm I could have locked the wheel or engaged the auto pilot.
Personally, I don't think it makes much difference where you locate the traveler or mainsheet. It is more like what the sailor is used to and comfortable with. The Garhauer system I used has ample power to do the job. The big thing is ease of operation as "folks will do what is easy and not do what is not" - case in point is pin type fairleads. In my case, I prefer the mid boom position for both the traveler and mainsheet. I was trying to think of a reason why I prefer that setup but i can't come up with one. When I first purchased my C30 the boat had a curved track traveler plus mainsheet blocks that were so old they hardly worked. The first thing I did was replace the mainsheet system with a Garhauer product. I then replaced the curved track traveler with the Garhauer straight track system. This amounted to a 1000% improvement. The next thing I did was bring both the traveler lines and mainsheet back to the helm. Later I also brought the rigid vang line to the helm. I also had Garhauer build me a 2' winch handle so I could trim the jib from the helm. I could make basic sail trim changes and never leave the helm. Had I wanted to leave the helm I could have locked the wheel or engaged the auto pilot.
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