Transmission
- Thread starter bertjazz
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I have a Universal M12 diesel in the Catalina 25 and I put it in reverse. Not sure that is correct but if I don't I can feel the prop turning when underway. Somewhere I read that that is recommended, however, I do not know what kind of transmission I have. It takes ATF Fluid.
I've posted the TSB from Yanmar below.
YANMAR MARINE USA CORP.
101 INTERNATIONAL PARKWAY
ADAIRSVILLE, GA 30103
TELEPHONE
(770) 877-9894
FAX
770-877-7565
BSITE WWW.YANMARMARI
dvisory Number: MSA08-003 A: DATE February 8, 2008 rs and OEMs
TO: All Marine Distributors, Deale
Sailing
SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral WhileODELS: All Sailboat Engines
M
We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while sailing with the
engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar requires that if sailing with
the engine OFF (not running) the transmission shifter must be in the neutral position or
internal damage to the gear or sail-drive will result. This damage will not be covered by
Yanmar’s Limited Warranty. Please instruct customers and dealers who deliver the
sailboat to the customer, of the correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while
ailing.
s
If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing, either a folding
propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be used. However, Yanmar accepts
no responsibility for the selection, installation, or operation of such devices. Please also
refer to Marine service advisory “MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection” for
dditional information.
a
If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a Customer Support
epresentative at (770) 877- 9894.
R
MARINE SERVICE ADVISORY
YANMAR MARINE USA CORP.
101 INTERNATIONAL PARKWAY
ADAIRSVILLE, GA 30103
TELEPHONE
(770) 877-9894
FAX
770-877-7565
BSITE WWW.YANMARMARI
dvisory Number: MSA08-003 A: DATE February 8, 2008 rs and OEMs
TO: All Marine Distributors, Deale
Sailing
SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral WhileODELS: All Sailboat Engines
M
We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while sailing with the
engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar requires that if sailing with
the engine OFF (not running) the transmission shifter must be in the neutral position or
internal damage to the gear or sail-drive will result. This damage will not be covered by
Yanmar’s Limited Warranty. Please instruct customers and dealers who deliver the
sailboat to the customer, of the correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while
ailing.
s
If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing, either a folding
propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be used. However, Yanmar accepts
no responsibility for the selection, installation, or operation of such devices. Please also
refer to Marine service advisory “MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection” for
dditional information.
a
If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a Customer Support
epresentative at (770) 877- 9894.
R
MARINE SERVICE ADVISORY
Your Yanmar is at least 30 yrs old and the newer tech bulletins do not apply to this model.Your gearbox runs same oil asin engine,it is a single plate clutch type and almost indestructable-still going strong after 30 yrs right? If your prop is geared folder nthen reverse engaged when sailing if feathering or fixed whack ikt in fwd. cheers
the way i read this..... its seems to me to be referring to the sail drive units....this question comes up often on hear.....i do think if you have to use ATF lubes it tells me you have clutches in the transmission liken to an automatic auto transmission and on theses it is said to not tow the auto with the drive shaft connected as it will burn out the clutch plates because the transmission pump is not turning and running fluid through them....as far as the transmissions with motor oil for the lube i am assuming that they are gear only inside the gear box and are splash lubricated....another thought is that with the transmission in gear it is possible to have the engine start but most likely will not happen so the question still remains in gear or out ....the bulletin did mention a shaft break and that may be the best option ...but very pricey..........
regards
woody
my ancient 2qm20h has been always left in neutral, as advised by the yanmar fella who overhauled it--he said ALL yanmars need to be in neutral when sailing without engine.
so does my perkins 4-108--
NO, i do NOT have a saildrive--i have transmissions--borg warner on perkins--needs to be run in neutral , and the one came with my yanmar--dont know exactly what brand it is--but is to be run in neutral.
btw--with this huge monster of a cruising boat, running in neutral when not in use didnt prevent us from sailing at 8.4 kts in 60 kts wind--nor did it hurt my tranny. if the books and manufacturer reps say neutral--DO IT.
will not reduce your boat speed by any meaningful amount. nor will it make the tranny break.
woody--please read the message--it says GEAR OR SAILDRIVE UNITS so i believe they mean both, not just sail drives. according to my yanmar rep--always always always sail with gearbox in NEUTRAL. ( he wont lie to me--we in same sportscar club)
so does my perkins 4-108--
NO, i do NOT have a saildrive--i have transmissions--borg warner on perkins--needs to be run in neutral , and the one came with my yanmar--dont know exactly what brand it is--but is to be run in neutral.
btw--with this huge monster of a cruising boat, running in neutral when not in use didnt prevent us from sailing at 8.4 kts in 60 kts wind--nor did it hurt my tranny. if the books and manufacturer reps say neutral--DO IT.
will not reduce your boat speed by any meaningful amount. nor will it make the tranny break.
woody--please read the message--it says GEAR OR SAILDRIVE UNITS so i believe they mean both, not just sail drives. according to my yanmar rep--always always always sail with gearbox in NEUTRAL. ( he wont lie to me--we in same sportscar club)
The TSB I posted is actually a follow-up to the original which seemed to refer to saildrives even more, Yanmar has reinstated it means ALL.
I just recently sent the TSB to someone who'd asked me, he called Yanmar to confirm, give them a call if unsure.
BTW Hurth transmissions use ATF and require sailing in reverse, try checking for an ID plate on trans for other engines.
I just recently sent the TSB to someone who'd asked me, he called Yanmar to confirm, give them a call if unsure.
BTW Hurth transmissions use ATF and require sailing in reverse, try checking for an ID plate on trans for other engines.
Summing up - it seems the transmission type is what governs the best position of the gear shift for sailing We should check ours to see what we have My Yammie is a 2002 and hence past warrenty So that's not an issue My only concern is to run it the best way for the survival of the transmission For those with warrenty concerns - who warrentees the transmission? The manufacturer or Yanmar? That's the advice I'd take MS has made a strong case that performance is better freewheeling
The late model Yanmars run Kanzaki transmissions, and Yanmar owns Kanzaki, and their distro reps service them. You need to park them in neutral and let the shaft turn, unless you have a folding/feathering prop or shaft lock, in which case it doesn't matter - the shaft will not rotate. Once you do a cost/benefits analysis of shaft lock v. feathering prop you will want a feathering prop. Big benefits getting the boat moving in light winds. You will not want to listen to a drive shaft rumbling while under sail and the transmission in neutral - the factory set up. Keep that ATF transmission oil fresh, it keeps your transmission plates in good shape.
some boats cannot fit a feathering or folding prop--like mine--i enjoy the noise i get when i hit 5 kts boat speed---is reassuring when i am below and someone else is on watch.
the loss of that sound awakens me for a potential change in attitude of boat while sailing....
the loss of that sound awakens me for a potential change in attitude of boat while sailing....
My 3.2 cents worth.. Talking Kanzaki transmissions.. Thing to note is that the gears do not turn when the shaft turns in neutral. The output shaft turns inside the gear but the gear does not move. The only moving parts then are the balls or rollers or needles in the bearings These parts are lubricated by the lowest ball in the highest bearing being about half submerged in the oil .. As the balls rotate, they carry oil up onto the rotating shaft and that lubricates the bearing in the hub of the stationary gear. The gears and the input shaft do not turn so no lube is necessary .. When the engine is running, the gears turn. The lowest part of the output gears drag oil up to the input gear where it lubes the gear faces and the oil runs down the shaft to lubricate teh input shaft bearings.. It is critical that the oil level be held correctly in the case so that the bearings get lubricated.. Note that the lines on the dipstick are about the diameter of a ball in the shaft bearings.. lower than the lower line and the balls won't be dipping into the oil in neutral with engine off. In the case of the Kanzakis that use ATF, half of the plates rotate with the output shaft when sailing in neutral and engine off. Those plates dip into the oil in the case and bring it up to lube the bearings and the gear hubs. Again, the gears are stationary..
All in all, reading all the different manuals and opinions, the safest bet would simply be to select reverse, regardless of what gearbox or drive, and then no one will ever have to worry about which transmission or drive system they have. Most all Manufacturers of both outboards and saildrives, prohibit drives left in fwd because turbulence knocks the prop back and forth and may cause rapid wear to various drive components.
Some do not want the gearbox left in neutral, because in those gear systems, parts are not lubricated properly. But all manufactures appear to accept reverse.
In reverse there is no prop knock, so no internal transmission damage will occur from that effect. And with nothing is rotating, there is no possibility of internal damage due to lack of lubrication.
On transmissions that are hydraulically applied, with the engine off they may spin regardless of what position the gear selector is in, and in that case I would still select reverse. It would end a lot of confusion to simply put any boat your on, or any outboard your running, in the same position.
Some do not want the gearbox left in neutral, because in those gear systems, parts are not lubricated properly. But all manufactures appear to accept reverse.
In reverse there is no prop knock, so no internal transmission damage will occur from that effect. And with nothing is rotating, there is no possibility of internal damage due to lack of lubrication.
On transmissions that are hydraulically applied, with the engine off they may spin regardless of what position the gear selector is in, and in that case I would still select reverse. It would end a lot of confusion to simply put any boat your on, or any outboard your running, in the same position.
zeehawgs right on.
follow what the manufacturer says... not what someone in a newsgroup says!
Zeehag, thanks for the confirmation re Borg Warner and Perkins... I've been leaving mine in neutral also as I wasnt sure.
Interesting implications for those with dripless shaft seals since when sailing and the engine is off the spinning dripless seal will not get the lubrication it needs. That could burn out the seal over time. I'll be moving to the GFO dripless packing material next time I repack!
follow what the manufacturer says... not what someone in a newsgroup says!
Zeehag, thanks for the confirmation re Borg Warner and Perkins... I've been leaving mine in neutral also as I wasnt sure.
Interesting implications for those with dripless shaft seals since when sailing and the engine is off the spinning dripless seal will not get the lubrication it needs. That could burn out the seal over time. I'll be moving to the GFO dripless packing material next time I repack!
I also agree with Zeehag. Both Yanmar that I have owned and Universal with Hurth Trans. both recommend leaving trans. in neutral when sailing. Neutral cannot damage the transmission the way that leaving it in gear can. That's the point of neutral. The transmission is no longer in gear. So it won't wear as it would when it is in gear. I also take the advice of the manufacture above anyone else on this or any forum. I don't know why this topic is so controversial. Every sailor I have ever sailed with for the past 30 years has always left the trans. in neutral when sailing. So what if it makes a lil noise spinning? It confirms that you're actually moving! I too want to move to a dripless shaft seal, but I have reservations about the stuffing box or shaft overheating as well.
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