Transmission fluid as a fuel additive?

[BobM]

So I just got back from Columbia MO. On my flight to Memphis I was sitting next to Eugene, a farm equipment mechanic with many years of experience with diesel engines of all shapes and sizes. I just had to take advantage of my captive so I pumped him for information about diesels. One thing he advised me to do is to add a quart of transmission fluid to my 18 gallon tank when filling up. He said that today's fuel just doesn't have the lubricants my 1981 Yanmar 2QM15 was designed for. He also advocated Rotella multiweight oil (20W 50 for the summer) as the best oil vs. the straight 30 I have been running.

Anyone every hear of adding tranny fluid to your diesel?

He also advocated for a metal fuel tank vs. plastic because he says that you get much more condensation with plastic vs. metal.

 

[monkeybars]

while your at it add a quart of tide laundry soap to help clean your engine inside.seriously just because eugene changes oil on some old farm tractors doesnt make him a diesel tech except in his own mind.i'm sure he enjoyed the attention he recieved while you were treating him as an expert.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

I'd go with the Tide detergent before the transmission fluid idea. Makes more sense!



Rest assured that currently marketed diesels (ULSD) has sufficient lub additives to compensate for the lack of sulfur. If you want to add anything, which is generally unnecessary and serves only to make you feel good, add cetane booster as no U.S. refined or produced diesel meets current Yanmar cetane requirements.

 

[Eddie7045]

That sounds very dubious but I am not surprised.

Even veteran mechanics will often believe in a snake oil remedy not to mention a shadetree mechanic. His advice about the fuel sounds more politically motivated than sound advice. As for the oil, first off what is recomended by the manufacturer ? Generally the vicosity recomended by the engineer is the better way to go in my experience. Mechanics, even good ones, have a tendency to believe in a heavier oil than is recommended and ever since multi-viscosity oil was introduced there has been those who resist it. In this case, he is probably right. I don't see why you would use a straight 30 weight oil unless your engine was very old and very worn out. I trust also that you are aware that there is a difference between crankcase oil that is designed for diesel engines and that which is used only in gasoline engines. Rotella is a diesel rated oil and can be used in both diesel and gasoline engines.

 

[SEMIJim]

I'm no diesel guy, but ATF in your fuel sounds like a Bad Idea. Then again: I would've never guessed MMO in gasoline would be a good idea, but many swear by it, so what do I know?

Jim

 

[CalebD]

I'm not sure about adding tranny fluid to your diesel fuel but I am sure that adding some Marvel Mystery Oil will do no harm. MMO is about a 5W oil with rust inhibitors in it. My 45 year old engine gets some MMO in both the engine oil and the gasoline (Atomic 4).

Eugene was right about one thing though. Rotella T oil is one of the best for both diesel and gasoline engines. As to what grade you should use I'd defer to the mfr's recommendation unless your engine is old (like mine) and Rotella 30W oil seems to make it happy.

 

[Eddie7045]

MMO does earn a lot of respect from mechanics over

the years. I used it myself in a marine gasoline engine in an effort to use it's corrosion prevenative qualities in that enviorment and I generally am very leary of additives. I am confident that it would not hurt to use it in diesel fuel although I think that it would be overkill in that situation.

 

[kloudie1]

Wouldn't use auto trans fluid.. If ya just "have to" use something, you can use Marvel Mystery Oil.. http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/products/
It kinda looks like ATF but I would use it WAY before putting ATF in there.. I do use Seafoam and an anti-oxidant and not ATF or MMO.
I do agree with Shell Rotella T, but use the 15-40 grade in your Yanmar. (not synthetic T6 or T5, just T)
I think a thermodynamic study of the plastic vs metal tank would tell you that the much worse heat transfer coefficient of the poly would result in much less condensation ..

 

[Benny17441]

Don't know about ATF and will not try it but a worn diesel engine in the hot tropics can benefit from using 20W50 engine oil. It will maintain viscocity, keep up compression, oil pressure, reduces oil burning and helps quiet down the valve train.

 

[Doug L]

I work in the technical assistance department of a major American automobile manufacturer. I can tell you, that back in the olden days, before electronic fuel injection pumps, around the time your Yanmar was built, it was recomended to add a quart of ATF to a tank of fuel, to lubricate the injection pump and injectors. This is not an old wives tale, but is a very realistic recomendation. The currently available ultra low sulphur fuels do not lubricate very well. The ATF will not hurt your engine. And, BTW, I argee with others recomendations for Rotella 15W-40. If you do cannot convince yourselt to go with ATF, (Dexron 3, I do not know how Dexron 6 would work) I would suggest Stanadyne Lubricity Formula.

 

[Shell]

I've put ATF fluid in my MB diesel for years on recommendations from several mechanics.
Put over 200k on that car before an accident took it out.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

The conventional wisdom among industry experts such as Chevron's Technology Team and others states, in part:



"Of course, it is not recommended that ATF be burned as fuel. Francis Healy of the Chevron Fuel Technology Team, says that "the root cause comes from blending ATF with ULSD" for lubricity reasons. According to Healy, the lack of lubricity found in early mixes of ULSD is no longer a problem, as fuel manufacturers now add necessary lubricants during refinement. As far as the long-term effects of running used ATF as fuel, Healy spoke on behalf of Chevron. "We (Chevron) can only speculate, but under higher fuel pressures (namely common-rail engines), the engine won't last, and can cause extreme wear on injection systems."
Royal Purple Inc., and Jim Miller of Opti-Lube believe that burning used ATF as fuel will leave hydrocarbon deposits behind that will not burn cleanly. Being that paraffinic oils (which are essentially long chains of hydrocarbons)exist in ATF, we would have to agree with them that an ash (basically soot) would be left behind. Our research confirmed this point even further, as we discovered that diesel vaporizes 40 times better than ATF. In addition, Miller stated that it definitely will not help with water/fuel separation, and that cold start-ups would be difficult.
Burn At Your Own Risk
Older indirect-injection and early direct-injection diesels may be more tolerant than common-rail engines when running used ATF due to lower injection pressures. But, long-term affects are still unknown. Anything you gain in saving money at the pump could potentially be lost in catastrophic repairs later"

There are always folks who think there is some magic bullet proven by the theory that - so far, so good.

 

[Slow Mo^cean]

You can use ATF as an additive, or even a substitute for diesel (like when priming a fuel filter and you don't have diesel), however with 100s of actual fuel additives out there, some cheaper that a quart of ATF, why use anything else?
As for plastic vs metal tank, his reasoning seams backwards. A metal tank will condense faster than a plastic because metal dissipates heat much faster. Why do you think all cars and most boats are now using plastic? Aside from the explosion hazard, metal tanks in climates with adverse temp fluctuations cause condensation and rust.

 

[centerline]

WOW... there are so many uninformed people here regarding they're diesel engines and the fuel they put in them... oil wont hurt your engine

first of all, this isnt meant to get everyone excited or saying that they dont know what they're doing, because everyone has a right to do it how they want to, but information is good. but it is meant to say that concerning any engine, top end or bottom end, a little more lubrication is better than too little..... everyone needs to understand the modern diesel fuels are very low sulfer which has taken a lot of the lubricity out of it.... so without the lubrication in the fuel, you should run an additive, for the longevity of all the moving parts. you dont have to, but depending on your engine and how many hours you put on it will determine how the modern fuel will affect it.
you can buy the high dollar additive which may work better, but in some cases, it is no more than colored hydraulic oil.... sometimes not even colored. it all depends on the brand and the marketing. it is branded as an "additive" and that it may help with (whatever it says on the label) with promises that cant be proven one way or another, then it is stamped with a high price and people buy it thinking they are getting premium stuff, when transmission oil and its properties may be somewhat better and way cheaper. it will not hurt the engine and in most cases will help it.....
it helps clean and lubricate the pump and injectors and people have been using it for years and it is still a very common additive. the advertising and promises that some of the "dedicated" additive companies make have steered the public towards their products,(some people think more money equals a better product) but there are some people who continue with the transmission oil and they have no problems with it.... why change something when you are using a proven product?
a diesel engine will run fine on STRAIGHT transmission fluid without missing a beat.... some of the older diesel engines were actually marketed as multi fuel engines.... one company you may have heard of John Deere, that had several multi-fuel models.. you could run anything in them that would burn.... diesel, kerosene, turpentine, trans fluid, used motor oil, rendered oils, gasoline(they also had spark plugs to help with combustion)..... whatever would burn, or that you could make burn... you could dilute the thicker products with another thinner product that would burn so as to get it to be able to run thru the system....
and they were good engines...
BUT this is not to say you should try it, but in a pinch you can burn about anything in a diesel engine.....as long as its filtered well so it doesnt plug up the injectors and can be made to fire on compression....
if you want to have doubts about what is ok to burn in your engine and mainly the political push and theories surrounding it, think about bio-diesel..... yet people pump it in without another thought.

I can tell the original poster, from many years of real life experience with diesel engines and fuel systems, modern or ancient, the transmission fluid as an additive will definitely do more good than harm to his engine..... no matter whether its a diesel engine or a gas engine. but I will also add that there are some good brand name additives that may be better.....

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

everyone needs to understand the modern diesel fuels are very low sulfer which has taken a lot of the lubricity out of it.... so without the lubrication in the fuel, you should run an additive... .

Obviously, opinions vary which is why I posted just one of a similar group of recommendation from industry experts which recommend against it. As to the lubricity of currently marketed ULSD, I find it unimaginable that the industry would expose itself to the huge liability of inadequate fuel blending. Contemporary diesel must be blended to ensure that whatever lubricity properties lost by the removal of sulfur has been properly compensated for.

 

[centerline]

Obviously, opinions vary which is why I posted just one of a similar group of recommendation from industry experts which recommend against it. As to the lubricity of currently marketed ULSD, I find it unimaginable that the industry would expose itself to the huge liability of inadequate fuel blending. Contemporary diesel must be blended to ensure that whatever lubricity properties lost by the removal of sulfur has been properly compensated for.

Don, In all respects to you, I know what you mean, but without getting all political I will only say that what goes on in politics, whether its for the government, or large business, the promises and claims made are very seldom in the best interest of the people...(too much greed and selfishness) and the proof is found when the product or promise is "field tested"... if any one who reads this, gives it a millisecond of thought, they will come to their own conclusion about what I have written.... but if, as a society, we all follow the opinions of the experts and dont think for ourselves a little bit, we are in for doom sooner rather than later.... why change what has always worked, if the new method isnt any better?.... no matter what it is..

 

[kloudie1]

Just a quick note concerning ATF and lubricity.. We always had to add "Friction Modifiers" to the ATF products that we made. These modifiers reduced the lubricity of the base oil so that the friction materials in the clutches in the auto trans could grip the driven metal plates.... I can't imagine putting something that has had its lubricity purposefully decreased into a diesel injection pump.

 

[anchorclanker]

A small history lesson. Mercedes Benz refers to all their diesel engines with the prefix OM. OM601, OM602, etc.. They have done this since they started building diesels almost 100 years ago. OM stands for OIL MOTOR, because diesels run on Oil. ATF is OIL. Vegetable oil is oil. Animal fat is oil. Bunker oil is oil. Diesels burn oil. If its heated up enough, they will even burn straight engine oil. The military now has all theirs running on Jet fuel. They can also burn Kerosene, but they really need some additive like ATF or something to maintain lubrication. Its if oil and it burns, a diesel can burn it. That does not mean it will all work well, or work very long however. Animal fats and some vegetable oils can create crystallized compounds during combustion and can destroy an engine. But ATF will not harm a diesel.

ATF was been used in diesels by OTR Truckers for over 40 years, as well as all heavy duty and off road equipment operators. Years ago, when the VW diesels first hit the streets in the late 70's, the VW dealerships recommended adding ATF to the fuel (quart to 10 gallons) to help clean dirty injectors. Mercedes suggested the same. As did every other diesel engine manufacturer. ATF has strong detergent properties that can remove deposits from the fuel system. It has higher lubricity than diesel fuel, so as its cleaning the parts, it lubricates them better. And it burns slightly hotter, helping to remove carbon and combustion chamber deposits, helping the engine to run better and more efficiently.

Then everyone stopped using it, and no more was heard about it. Why? Because the Feds were afraid a few rouges were burning heating oil or off road (untaxed) fuel. We cant have that. So they added red dye to taxed road diesel. Instantly, adding ATF to diesel fuel could get you in trouble if they dipped your tank (and they do dip tanks).

But Farm and other off road equipment are exempt from road taxed fuel, as are boats (for now), and ATF still does what it always did, and even better with ULSD.

I have known of over a dozen MB diesels with over 700K miles on original engines, no major repairs, and every one of them used some ATF until it became illegal. Note, were talking plain dexron ATF, not type F or anything with friction improvers. MMO will also work, but not to the same effect.

 

[redhead78]

Just this past weekend I picked up 165 gallons of #2 red dyed diesel from work, from what I was told this is as good as it gets. It came from Amerada Hess, when I had it delivered in the spring. Is this in the ULSD catagory. Red

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Just this past weekend I picked up 165 gallons of #2 red dyed diesel from work, from what I was told this is as good as it gets. It came from Amerada Hess, when I had it delivered in the spring. Is this in the ULSD catagory. Red

Th red dye indicator signifies only that it costs more being sold as road taxed fuel (as opposed to heating oil). Dyed and non-dyed diesel is equivalent in all respects except color. Both are ULSD.

As to the concept of adding transmission fuel, some myths die hard.