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Transmission Change

Jan 6, 2013
7
Catalina 310 Toronto
Good Morning To All,

I have a Catalina 310 sail boat with a M25XPB Universal marine engine. My Transmission is a Hurth Model ZF5M and is in the process of failing. Any recommendations to rebuild or replace this transmission with a better transmission.

Many thanks
 
Apr 8, 2010
1,136
Ericson Yachts Olson 34 Portland OR
Just wandering around the sailing web for several years, it looks like many owners seem to be happy with the 'Technodrive TMC 40' transmission as a replacement. This was standard equipment on our new Betamarine 25, installed this spring. (for whatever that's worth)

Your curent transmission model must be a successor to the Hurth 50 that was attached to the 1988 M25XP that we took out. The Hurth 50 has a poor reputation, especially after a rebuild, altho some owners have had some success.
Keep us posted as you research toward a solution.
 
May 24, 2004
5,850
CC 30 South Florida
Transmissions are usually items that have a long useful life, how long do you intend to keep that boat? Any older transmission whether having a good reputation or not would need to be rebuild before installation, might as well rebuild what you got.
 

KZW

May 17, 2014
638
Catalina 310 #307 Bluewater Bay, FL
For all those non-310 owners: The Hurth Model ZF5M transmission as connected to the M25XPB Universal diesel has a dismal reputation in the C-310 community. Based on the write-ups in this forum, it appears one can expect failure any time after the 500 hour point.
 
Apr 26, 2018
134
Catalina Catalina 30 Bayview
I had a Hurth HBW50, it failed and I replaced it with a PRM 60. Direct bolt in. I called Mike from Harbor Marine and he took me through the process and knows more about transmissions on the west coast then anyone else. 4-5 independent people from CA to WA all referred me to him. CAN'T SAY ENOUGH ABOUT HIS KNOWLEDGE OF CATALINA AND UNIVERSALS. I get nothing from the advertising of his services. I would call him and get the best recommendations for that boat and engine combo, he has them in stock and also that is where local people will order from is what Im told from the Hurth dealers in CA. Mine died at 600 hours. He told me it was a poor design, would cost more to rebuild, and there is a better design on the market. Rebuild cost, $1500-1600 with less then 500 hours expected versus $960 for knew bolt in PRM. I wish my little put put had a transmission cooler, if you can get one, might be worth upgrade. I did motor mounts, damper plate (or tried) and also transmission. If my engine was actually a Universal standard rig, it would have been much easier, but you can read about the process if you search for Hurth transmission in Catalina 30 forum. Also PYI has a superior damper plate for Universal then the stock one. I also got my mounts from them, seem good.
 
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Mar 16, 2007
1,314
Catalina 310 Anacortes,Wa
Good Morning To All,

I have a Catalina 310 sail boat with a M25XPB Universal marine engine. My Transmission is a Hurth Model ZF5M and is in the process of failing. Any recommendations to rebuild or replace this transmission with a better transmission.

Many thanks

What transmission did you get to replace your Hurth?


paulj
 
Oct 17, 2011
219
Catalina 310 Chesapeake (Middle River, MD)
Good Morning To All,

I have a Catalina 310 sail boat with a M25XPB Universal marine engine. My Transmission is a Hurth Model ZF5M and is in the process of failing. Any recommendations to rebuild or replace this transmission with a better transmission.

Many thanks
Curious, what symptoms did you have to make you think it was failing? Mine takes a while to engage in forward. It engages immediately in reverse though. I have been trying to determine if it was a cable adjustment issue or actual mechanical issue in the transmission.
 
Mar 16, 2007
1,314
Catalina 310 Anacortes,Wa


For the last 12 years.....
After backing out of the slip, I have put the trans in forward and idled about 1000 rpm until I am away from the marina slow area.
Then increase rpms and on my way.
Last week I had the boat surveyed and the surveyor started the engine while I cast off the lines. He put the trans in forward and we moved out of the slip, as soon as we cleared the slip he sped up to about 1800 rpm and the engine rpm increased but the boat speed did not increase. It seemed to me that the trans disengaged.
After some excitement moving the shift handle in and out, he brought the rpm back to about 900 or a 1000 rpm and the boat started moving forward again.
During the rest of the sea trials this did not occur again.

A few days later some one else wanted to take the boat out and the same thing happened again.
Seems to me that the trans has to warm up a bit before you increase the rpms.
Seems some captains can not wait to get out the gate.



Trans Hurth HBW 50.



paulj :hook2:
 
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JRT

Feb 14, 2017
1,329
Catalina 310 211 Lake Guntersville, AL
@paulj I have the exact same process and I believe the previous owner did the same thing. Never in a rush and just happy to be out!
 
Oct 4, 2014
6
Catalina 310 73 Monterey
I think this is a common symptom with this trans as the clutches wear. Ours seemed to be getting a bit worse, and adjusting the linkage helped a bit. On a recommendation from a friend at the local boatyard, I changed the oil in the trans and it got MUCH better. Not perfect, but a big improvement. The oil that came out was extremely dark, which is not the color for the recommended ATF, it was very dirty. It has been about 8 or 9 months of light use since, so I will change it again soon.
I didn't use the drain plug, just a large syringe with a small tube on it through the fill hole, the whole process was maybe 10 minutes.
I realize this doesn't cure the transmission, but it did make it engage reliably and quicker. Bought some time to research and plan other options.
 
Mar 16, 2007
1,314
Catalina 310 Anacortes,Wa
Well to sooth the minds of some..... I looking at installing a PRM 60 d2 transmission.
I will be saying good bye to the Hurth HBW 50 transmission and all it's .....
Will keep you up to date and maybe some pictures.

paulj
:hook2:
 
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Feb 8, 2014
1,080
Columbia 36 Muskegon
I swapped my Hurth HBW5 for a PRM 60D over the winter and so far it's great. Got it from ASAP Supplies in the UK for about $430, less than half what rebuilding the Hurth would cost. Shipping from the UK was about $60. (ASAP's website quotes prices including VAT, specify shipping to the US and they deduct the VAT which was about $90.).
Direct bolt up replacement, the only differences are the shift lever is on port instead of starboard and it goes forward for forward instead of aft for forward like the Hurth. Also has 1/4" more drop than the Hurth meaning the engine must be raised 1/4" on the mounts. That actually worked out well for me as my engine was all the way down on the aft mounts so this gives me more adjustment room. 1969 Columbia 36 with Kubota D850 which is the same as a Universal M25.
 
Apr 26, 2018
134
Catalina Catalina 30 Bayview
Thats a good price with shipping. Mine was $960. I had fab shop make aluminum arm and I reversed my cables at shift lever. Working good.
 
Jan 29, 2018
27
Beneteau 411 Irish Ayes II Branford
I had a Hurth that I rebuilt on my C30. The mistake I made was not taking sufficient measurements of the shims during rebuild AND I added lock washers to the transmission bolts inside the bell housing. The lock washers reduced the clearance to zero in reverse and the vibration destroyed the rear seal housing. In the end, I bought a Twin Disc (don't remember the exact model) but it was a direct replacement. I was able to get the transmission out by loosening the front mount nuts and removing the rear mount nuts (top nuts only as the bottom nut sets the position/elevation) I raised the engine with a deflated soccer ball under the oil pan and blocked the engine up before working underneath. From this position, I was able to remove all of the bell housing bolts and then remove the bell housing thru the aft opening- it was tight. I may have removed the tranny bolts prior to getting all out the opening. The TwinDisc trans. worked great. I did have to raise the heat exchanger to allow room for the trans. dip stick (top center of trans). Consider replacing the damper plate- CD shows it at $429 but I found it for about $150 with a little searching and picture matching.
 
Jan 29, 2018
27
Beneteau 411 Irish Ayes II Branford
I believe the Hurth Trans shift lever is on the left (looking forward) and operates fore and aft with the cable axis essentially parallel to the boat keel. The Twindisc shift lever is also on the left and operates up and down- so the cable is routed up and into the cable bracket and clamp (may be a Twindisc extra) . The operating end of the shift cable is pointed down. I reused my old cables- there was plenty of room and adjustment. There are a few holes on the shift lever to allow for different cable strokes.
 
Feb 8, 2014
1,080
Columbia 36 Muskegon
I believe the Hurth Trans shift lever is on the left (looking forward) and operates fore and aft with the cable axis essentially parallel to the boat keel. The Twindisc shift lever is also on the left and operates up and down- so the cable is routed up and into the cable bracket and clamp (may be a Twindisc extra) . The operating end of the shift cable is pointed down. I reused my old cables- there was plenty of room and adjustment. There are a few holes on the shift lever to allow for different cable strokes.
Actually the Hurth shift lever is on starboard and operated back for forward and forward for reverse. The PRM is the opposite, lever is on port and operates forward for forward. And there is 1/4" more drop on the output shaft meaning the engine needs to be raised 1/4" on it's mounts. Other than that it's a direct bolt on replacement. The mounting bolts are exactly the same. On mine I made a new cable bracket but you could probably use the old one off the Hurth. The PRM uses cone clutches which are much more robust and reliable than the disc clutches in the Hurth.