Fo most of my life I have been a sailor from crewing in my teens on a Rhodes 19 in Lake Michigan (Chicago's Belmont Harbor), Commodore of my college sailing club, living aboard for three years on a Coronado 35 to now sailing my Catalina 30 at Lake Lanier, GA. Nine sailboats and 45 years later and kids grown, we decided to set our schedule, move to the coast and liveaboard; thats if marina's are still around!! As an aging baby boomer, I find that amenities and creature comforts are more critical then anything on a vessel. Like so many, I spent years crammed in small v-berths, cooked a zillion meals over coleman stove's and carried hundreds if not thousands of bags of ice to chill my food in many sailboats over the years. It was part of the lifestyle. But, when we consider living aboard (marina) we must realize that most of our time will be at dock shared with roughly 25% doing ICW cruising. The amenities are critical and the budget does not allow for the 47' Catalina or larger sailboat. We figure in order for us to really feel comfortable and mobile it would take a 40+ foot sailboat to get it all and thats still limited. Morgan 41's were in my sights for years. Its tough to consider we would not be sailing, but the trawler (36-38 feet) offers so much in creature comforts we find not only impressive but necessary compared to sailboats in that range. Wow, a 17 cu.ft. fridge, full tub and shower, generator, queen center line berth and tons of hanging locker space to name a few nice touches is what we are seeing on trawlers under 40 feet. Add the deck areas, davit, shallow draft and thifty single diesel with bow thruster and its looking good. I am sure several have made the transition from a sailboat to a trawler, and I welcome any feedback on the subject. Bob Catalina 30 Breezin II
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No!
Don't go over to the dark side just for a bigger refrigerator! Plus, you still love sailing, and even if you only do it 10-20% of the time, that's still something. I don't think the 38-40' dockominiums are that much worse than trawlers in amenities anyway. Finally, think of the tons of diesel fuel you will burn pushing that trawler around. The only serious advantage I see to a trawler is that you can get places faster, but you are going to be retired on it anyway, so why does time matter?
Don't go over to the dark side just for a bigger refrigerator! Plus, you still love sailing, and even if you only do it 10-20% of the time, that's still something. I don't think the 38-40' dockominiums are that much worse than trawlers in amenities anyway. Finally, think of the tons of diesel fuel you will burn pushing that trawler around. The only serious advantage I see to a trawler is that you can get places faster, but you are going to be retired on it anyway, so why does time matter?
Sailboat / Trawler
Check out the new trawler sailboats. Sailboat makers are realizing that they need to accomodate those hippy, baby booming, protesting flower children, no offense. With the new hybrids, you get alot of space above deck, larger power plants and the option for sail or power. However, with the cost of fuel these days, you may want to stick with a pure cavern like however spacious and economical sailboat.
Check out the new trawler sailboats. Sailboat makers are realizing that they need to accomodate those hippy, baby booming, protesting flower children, no offense. With the new hybrids, you get alot of space above deck, larger power plants and the option for sail or power. However, with the cost of fuel these days, you may want to stick with a pure cavern like however spacious and economical sailboat.
Go for it
Were not getting any younger. We have physical limitations, climbing up those companion way steps isn't getting any easier on the joints. Cruising on a sailboat means 70-90% diesel anyways, so whats the big deal? Much easier on the Admiral also. Keep in mind, sailboats then trawlers then RV's, then assisted living or worse. Just do it now.
Were not getting any younger. We have physical limitations, climbing up those companion way steps isn't getting any easier on the joints. Cruising on a sailboat means 70-90% diesel anyways, so whats the big deal? Much easier on the Admiral also. Keep in mind, sailboats then trawlers then RV's, then assisted living or worse. Just do it now.
Trawler
Join the crowd. There was a time when sleeping under the stars with just the sky overhead was enough - today, I can't live without the internet, my HDTV, a soft bed, and the hum of air conditioning to put me to sleep. Although pretty pricy, trawlers are starting to be favored over 2nd (or even 1st) homes. You can get a lot of boatcondo for only $600,000! A local charter company that used to deal exclusively in sail is now expanding it's business to include trawlers. It's the sign of the times. The best way to go is with a motorsailer. That said, it's only a dream for me.
Join the crowd. There was a time when sleeping under the stars with just the sky overhead was enough - today, I can't live without the internet, my HDTV, a soft bed, and the hum of air conditioning to put me to sleep. Although pretty pricy, trawlers are starting to be favored over 2nd (or even 1st) homes. You can get a lot of boatcondo for only $600,000! A local charter company that used to deal exclusively in sail is now expanding it's business to include trawlers. It's the sign of the times. The best way to go is with a motorsailer. That said, it's only a dream for me.
Comfort and mobility vs. $$..... think again!
Bob, you're a very experienced "been there, done that" kind of sailor. What is the point of asking for anyone's advice; especially on a sailboating board? Unless you're hoping we will try to talk you out of it, of course..... Costwise; you are about right on by comparing trawlers in the mid 30's range to sailing vessels in the low 40's (feet, that is). Space? If you just chainsaw bow and stern off a low 40's sailing vessel you are pretty well on your way building your own mid 30's trawler (without gaining any space yet; might make a great project for stand-up comedian Red Green, though). Comfort??? Have you ever motored out of the harbor into a big seaway without any major sail up? Case closed. Do I ever think about the same issue?? Sure enough (just haven't found the proper chainsaw yet) Have fun Flying Dutchman
Bob, you're a very experienced "been there, done that" kind of sailor. What is the point of asking for anyone's advice; especially on a sailboating board? Unless you're hoping we will try to talk you out of it, of course..... Costwise; you are about right on by comparing trawlers in the mid 30's range to sailing vessels in the low 40's (feet, that is). Space? If you just chainsaw bow and stern off a low 40's sailing vessel you are pretty well on your way building your own mid 30's trawler (without gaining any space yet; might make a great project for stand-up comedian Red Green, though). Comfort??? Have you ever motored out of the harbor into a big seaway without any major sail up? Case closed. Do I ever think about the same issue?? Sure enough (just haven't found the proper chainsaw yet) Have fun Flying Dutchman
Last year we did the leg from Smuggler Cove...
to Nanaimo, B.C., about 25 miles across Georgia Strait. We were on a beam reach starboard tack in 18 to 20 MPH winds. Seas were in the six to eigth foot swell range coming at us at about the 30 degree mark. Belle-Vie dug in and did a respectable nine to ten knots all the way and very smooth with a 20 degree heel. While we were checking in at the Yacht Club a trawler skipper came in and was explaining to us the bone jarring rough ride they had with everything below decks thrown about. They came across with us on the same route. Terry P.S. During this leg we used nary a drop of fuel.
to Nanaimo, B.C., about 25 miles across Georgia Strait. We were on a beam reach starboard tack in 18 to 20 MPH winds. Seas were in the six to eigth foot swell range coming at us at about the 30 degree mark. Belle-Vie dug in and did a respectable nine to ten knots all the way and very smooth with a 20 degree heel. While we were checking in at the Yacht Club a trawler skipper came in and was explaining to us the bone jarring rough ride they had with everything below decks thrown about. They came across with us on the same route. Terry P.S. During this leg we used nary a drop of fuel.
Trawlers are very nice boats--Go for it.
However, be sure to get a good sailing dinghy to enjoy both worlds.
However, be sure to get a good sailing dinghy to enjoy both worlds.
Sailboat,Motorboat,Motorhome,NursingHome...
...we are all heading in that direction. Try to avoid that last step as long as you can..good luck.
...we are all heading in that direction. Try to avoid that last step as long as you can..good luck.
Go for the stink pot!
Because you are looking for a liveaboard, no question you should go for living comfort first. I have been sailing for every minute of my 33 years and I love it. I've also spent many a summer vacationing (weeks on hand) in limited space (Ericson 29 and Beneteau 38s5). It wasn't until I met my (future) wife on her Dad's 60' Hatteras that I realized sailors really are hard core. If it were me, I'd buy one of those Gibson houseboats and never leave the slip. I'd have a Santana 22 (for $5k) completely rigged out to appease my sailing hunger. If your budget allows, buy a J24 or Melges
.
Because you are looking for a liveaboard, no question you should go for living comfort first. I have been sailing for every minute of my 33 years and I love it. I've also spent many a summer vacationing (weeks on hand) in limited space (Ericson 29 and Beneteau 38s5). It wasn't until I met my (future) wife on her Dad's 60' Hatteras that I realized sailors really are hard core. If it were me, I'd buy one of those Gibson houseboats and never leave the slip. I'd have a Santana 22 (for $5k) completely rigged out to appease my sailing hunger. If your budget allows, buy a J24 or Melges
.
Go For It!
This year I lost two of my sailboat dock neighbors to the dark side.... er, trawlers. Both couples are very pleased with their decision, well, I think the wives are anyway, and one of the husbands is still making the mental transition. He bought his/their boat last summer and has been spending nearly every day working on it. It's a Taiwan 36 to 38 feet with fiberglass hull but lots of wood topside, including wood decks. Several leaks, some rot was found, but he's really handy with wood and boat work in general. What they all like is being inside and having a view. No more braving the elements. Neither have bow thrusters, at least not yet. Neither boater has a boat house which is something nice to have from a maintenance standpoint. Concerns: what would concern me is dirty fuel. Since a motorboat only has one source of power - the engine - dirty fuel could shut this down. What Terry Cox mentioned about the rock-and-roll crossing could easily stir up crud in the tank. Also, the pickup tube could suck air. With an engine outage you have limited choices: Anchor? Perhaps a bit of steering downwind assuming the steering isn't hydraulic. Maybe have a steadying sail - most trawlers have a mast for looks or for launching the dingy, not for a steadying sail. This is one of the things that would concern me anyway. Also hitting debris and messing up the prop and shaft. With a sailboat you still have the sailing option. Speed? Trawlers, a true trawler and not one of those "look like a trawler but with a Bayliner hull", aren't all that much faster than a sailboat under power and sometimes barely as fast or not as fast as a sailboat under sail. Bottom line, deal with the concerns, stay out of the sun to avoid melonoma, and enjoy the rest of life. You're retired. Go when you wanna go, do what you wanna do. Keep the fuel clean and the engine tuned and your dark side won't be quite as dark.
This year I lost two of my sailboat dock neighbors to the dark side.... er, trawlers. Both couples are very pleased with their decision, well, I think the wives are anyway, and one of the husbands is still making the mental transition. He bought his/their boat last summer and has been spending nearly every day working on it. It's a Taiwan 36 to 38 feet with fiberglass hull but lots of wood topside, including wood decks. Several leaks, some rot was found, but he's really handy with wood and boat work in general. What they all like is being inside and having a view. No more braving the elements. Neither have bow thrusters, at least not yet. Neither boater has a boat house which is something nice to have from a maintenance standpoint. Concerns: what would concern me is dirty fuel. Since a motorboat only has one source of power - the engine - dirty fuel could shut this down. What Terry Cox mentioned about the rock-and-roll crossing could easily stir up crud in the tank. Also, the pickup tube could suck air. With an engine outage you have limited choices: Anchor? Perhaps a bit of steering downwind assuming the steering isn't hydraulic. Maybe have a steadying sail - most trawlers have a mast for looks or for launching the dingy, not for a steadying sail. This is one of the things that would concern me anyway. Also hitting debris and messing up the prop and shaft. With a sailboat you still have the sailing option. Speed? Trawlers, a true trawler and not one of those "look like a trawler but with a Bayliner hull", aren't all that much faster than a sailboat under power and sometimes barely as fast or not as fast as a sailboat under sail. Bottom line, deal with the concerns, stay out of the sun to avoid melonoma, and enjoy the rest of life. You're retired. Go when you wanna go, do what you wanna do. Keep the fuel clean and the engine tuned and your dark side won't be quite as dark.
Prices Are Comparable
Love the responses, and yes I feel often I am a trader to tradition. "Once a sailor, always a sailor". But, sometimes you have to look at some realities and for many the decision to live aboard alone is enough to bite your nails all off! All I can hope for at this time is the availability of marina's that will even offer dockage for living aboard. Afterall its getting toughter out there each year. The cost of a good used trawler (36-38 ft), late 80's, single screw, bow thruster, is not that pricey. Heck they are less than the new Catalina 30!! So for the money and number of vessels to choose from on the market it is affordable. I have to wonder though just how well they do in a seaway, but we are speaking of the ICW and the occasional short outside run in fair weather. They sure look salty! Perhaps its more focused on living aboard and having the room and the simple pleasures like I talked about ealrier that would make the experience more enjoyable. Keep it coming....the opinions are great. Bob
Love the responses, and yes I feel often I am a trader to tradition. "Once a sailor, always a sailor". But, sometimes you have to look at some realities and for many the decision to live aboard alone is enough to bite your nails all off! All I can hope for at this time is the availability of marina's that will even offer dockage for living aboard. Afterall its getting toughter out there each year. The cost of a good used trawler (36-38 ft), late 80's, single screw, bow thruster, is not that pricey. Heck they are less than the new Catalina 30!! So for the money and number of vessels to choose from on the market it is affordable. I have to wonder though just how well they do in a seaway, but we are speaking of the ICW and the occasional short outside run in fair weather. They sure look salty! Perhaps its more focused on living aboard and having the room and the simple pleasures like I talked about ealrier that would make the experience more enjoyable. Keep it coming....the opinions are great. Bob
Sailboat to trawler is a natural progression.
Two peaceful machines. The trawler will be like those days when the sails don't go up. On many sailboats, that rythmic diesel plugs along, not much differance to the trawler. I don't think you can call a trawler a stick pot. There are alot of sailors that have not given up the sailboat but don't do the sails. Hence a trawler with a mast. Enjoy Your new boat. If you are talking budget... Trawlers are going to beat up your wallet more than the same size sailboat....That is just the initial price. Whatever it is, it is the water and the boat that I hope you continue to enjoy! r.w.landau
Two peaceful machines. The trawler will be like those days when the sails don't go up. On many sailboats, that rythmic diesel plugs along, not much differance to the trawler. I don't think you can call a trawler a stick pot. There are alot of sailors that have not given up the sailboat but don't do the sails. Hence a trawler with a mast. Enjoy Your new boat. If you are talking budget... Trawlers are going to beat up your wallet more than the same size sailboat....That is just the initial price. Whatever it is, it is the water and the boat that I hope you continue to enjoy! r.w.landau
You are more knowledgable than I
and congradulations for moving aboard! But I've an opinion too. It's easy enough to understand the appeal of a trawler. But before you make any moves, across the pier from me is a Lancer 45 motorsailor. This perticular boat is old but the interior is absolutly huge. Indoor helm, electric winch, twin diesels, patio out back, and still has a stick on top to go sailing. I know nothing about that brand or motorsailors in general other than seeing this one, but I'd have to at least take a fresh look at motorsailors before dedacating to diesel alone.
and congradulations for moving aboard! But I've an opinion too. It's easy enough to understand the appeal of a trawler. But before you make any moves, across the pier from me is a Lancer 45 motorsailor. This perticular boat is old but the interior is absolutly huge. Indoor helm, electric winch, twin diesels, patio out back, and still has a stick on top to go sailing. I know nothing about that brand or motorsailors in general other than seeing this one, but I'd have to at least take a fresh look at motorsailors before dedacating to diesel alone.
I made that transition
and after four years I'm ready to go back to sailing. The trawler has too much teak and now I use two gallons and hour instead of 3/10. I used the sailboat more often than the stinkpot. On a nice day it was great to push off the dock for a quiet sail. Now I head out and burn diesel a four bucks a gallon.
and after four years I'm ready to go back to sailing. The trawler has too much teak and now I use two gallons and hour instead of 3/10. I used the sailboat more often than the stinkpot. On a nice day it was great to push off the dock for a quiet sail. Now I head out and burn diesel a four bucks a gallon.
Close to what we did!
Very close to what the two of us did. We have an Islander 30 MkII we have owned for many years. We had been looking for a larger retirement vessel. Something on the order of a Catalina/Beneteau 42-47. Or maybe a good deal on a 37-40 Catamaran. What we just found/bought was an Island Trader 46 Ketch. She is called, by her manufacturer, a "Trawl'r Sailer". Three berths, two heads with half tubs/showers in each, walk around center queen in master and far more storage than any Catalina or Beneteau. She has two wood sticks, a huge mish mash of sails and is plastic with a lot of Cetoled exterior wood. Should keep me out of trouble maintaining. LOL We have not had time to assess her behaviour in sailing or motoring since we are cleaning up all the survey issues as of this writing. But it is our intention to "sail" her as much as we can making any modifications necessary for acceptable performance. We intend to live on her full time by this summer, retire and untie the dock lines by October 2008, head out of the Golden Gate and turn left. Watch the Island Trader Forum and we will keep it updated with our efforts. Bill & Rebecca M/S Voyager S/V Mist
Very close to what the two of us did. We have an Islander 30 MkII we have owned for many years. We had been looking for a larger retirement vessel. Something on the order of a Catalina/Beneteau 42-47. Or maybe a good deal on a 37-40 Catamaran. What we just found/bought was an Island Trader 46 Ketch. She is called, by her manufacturer, a "Trawl'r Sailer". Three berths, two heads with half tubs/showers in each, walk around center queen in master and far more storage than any Catalina or Beneteau. She has two wood sticks, a huge mish mash of sails and is plastic with a lot of Cetoled exterior wood. Should keep me out of trouble maintaining. LOL We have not had time to assess her behaviour in sailing or motoring since we are cleaning up all the survey issues as of this writing. But it is our intention to "sail" her as much as we can making any modifications necessary for acceptable performance. We intend to live on her full time by this summer, retire and untie the dock lines by October 2008, head out of the Golden Gate and turn left. Watch the Island Trader Forum and we will keep it updated with our efforts. Bill & Rebecca M/S Voyager S/V Mist
I have known several.....
I have known several people that have made the transition. They all said that they miss sailing, but are still glad they made the transition. The reasons varied from 'needed more room and I ended up motoring most of the time anyway', to 'getting too old, less mobility, bad knees,' etc. I am 60 years old and recently bought an older 39' ketch. Even when purchasing it, i knew that my ownership will be of limited time. I too will eventually end up with a trawler. My personal feelings are like some of the people that I know that have made the transition.....a motor sailer will give you more room, but you will have sails you probably will rarely if ever use and are limited to areas with opening or high bridges. The trawler will open up more places to get to. One friend of mine bought a trawler and carries a sailing dinghy with him. I'm not trying to start a war, but i think a motorsailer is a poor choice. Its the worst of both worlds. But then again, I dont know your personal situation. You may live in a very windy area with no mast height problems and then the motorsailer would be the best choice.
I have known several people that have made the transition. They all said that they miss sailing, but are still glad they made the transition. The reasons varied from 'needed more room and I ended up motoring most of the time anyway', to 'getting too old, less mobility, bad knees,' etc. I am 60 years old and recently bought an older 39' ketch. Even when purchasing it, i knew that my ownership will be of limited time. I too will eventually end up with a trawler. My personal feelings are like some of the people that I know that have made the transition.....a motor sailer will give you more room, but you will have sails you probably will rarely if ever use and are limited to areas with opening or high bridges. The trawler will open up more places to get to. One friend of mine bought a trawler and carries a sailing dinghy with him. I'm not trying to start a war, but i think a motorsailer is a poor choice. Its the worst of both worlds. But then again, I dont know your personal situation. You may live in a very windy area with no mast height problems and then the motorsailer would be the best choice.
Reality
Like many have said already, its a personal choice, sometimes dictated by circumstances. I know that someday, if I wish to stay on the water, which I do, a trawler will probably be in my future. The admiral has MS and although it has been under control for several years now, I know in my heart that one day going down the companionway isn't going to be practical. I've looked at the true trawlers in our marinas and even had a few fellow dockmates invite us in to show off their boats. The are very impressive and would be much more comfortable for the admiral. One other optin is a cat which offers more room, walk thru companionway and still can sail. The obvious issue for those that if you wish to live aboard at a marina is the double slip fees due to the beam. As we all have said so many times, life is a compromise and boats are always a compromise. Fortunately I can enjoy our h356 for the next several years and put off that "transition" decision for a while longer. Bob - good luck with your decision, we know it isn't an easy one.
Like many have said already, its a personal choice, sometimes dictated by circumstances. I know that someday, if I wish to stay on the water, which I do, a trawler will probably be in my future. The admiral has MS and although it has been under control for several years now, I know in my heart that one day going down the companionway isn't going to be practical. I've looked at the true trawlers in our marinas and even had a few fellow dockmates invite us in to show off their boats. The are very impressive and would be much more comfortable for the admiral. One other optin is a cat which offers more room, walk thru companionway and still can sail. The obvious issue for those that if you wish to live aboard at a marina is the double slip fees due to the beam. As we all have said so many times, life is a compromise and boats are always a compromise. Fortunately I can enjoy our h356 for the next several years and put off that "transition" decision for a while longer. Bob - good luck with your decision, we know it isn't an easy one.
The ICW is mostly under power
Well back in 1983 I took the plunge and sold my house, took a three year kid a reluctant wife and moved aboard a Coronado 35 sloop to fulfill my dream of living aboard and exploring the ICW. Was'nt a hard choice. If your on the edge, GO FOR IT!!!! Three years of cruising and we were back home. What I did learn from experience on the ICW back then is that you hardly raised your sails! It was only when we hopped out in the ocean to run offshore did we stretch her out. We had a big Perkins 4-108 diesel, drew 5'6" and literally cut our own channels each time we ran aground trying to stay on-line in the ICW channel under sail. Always a challenge. Dozens of trawlers over time and the miles were within ear shot on the waterway maintaining the same speed and, "just chugging along the ICW" (great song lyrics!). I think the big issues or concerns about the Trawlers (teak maintenance, filtered fuel, fuel economy, etc) were well presented here and for me are no less than what one would deal with on a larger sailboat. Their are dozens of trawler manufacturers and just as many sizes and configurations. The market is flooded with excellent buys and well cared for vessels on each coast. As a sailor it is a compromise, but in practical terms I can say I am ready for a beamier vessel with all those luxuries. Indeed a sailing dinghy on deck is no question and a nice lapstrake one at that. Its simply all a matter of convenience. Thanks Bob
Well back in 1983 I took the plunge and sold my house, took a three year kid a reluctant wife and moved aboard a Coronado 35 sloop to fulfill my dream of living aboard and exploring the ICW. Was'nt a hard choice. If your on the edge, GO FOR IT!!!! Three years of cruising and we were back home. What I did learn from experience on the ICW back then is that you hardly raised your sails! It was only when we hopped out in the ocean to run offshore did we stretch her out. We had a big Perkins 4-108 diesel, drew 5'6" and literally cut our own channels each time we ran aground trying to stay on-line in the ICW channel under sail. Always a challenge. Dozens of trawlers over time and the miles were within ear shot on the waterway maintaining the same speed and, "just chugging along the ICW" (great song lyrics!). I think the big issues or concerns about the Trawlers (teak maintenance, filtered fuel, fuel economy, etc) were well presented here and for me are no less than what one would deal with on a larger sailboat. Their are dozens of trawler manufacturers and just as many sizes and configurations. The market is flooded with excellent buys and well cared for vessels on each coast. As a sailor it is a compromise, but in practical terms I can say I am ready for a beamier vessel with all those luxuries. Indeed a sailing dinghy on deck is no question and a nice lapstrake one at that. Its simply all a matter of convenience. Thanks Bob
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