Trailer Sailing a 25' Full Keel

Apr 15, 2015
11
Cape Dory 25 Trailered
Is anyone here trailering a 25' full keel boat and launching from boat ramps? If so, how long should the tongue extension be?
 
Nov 9, 2008
1,338
Pearson-O'Day 290 Portland Maine
Percy,
Doesn't sound like fun to me. You going to do this regularly or once a season? I've seen/heard of folks using a tow strap to do it. As Dava390 about that one! Doesn't always go as planned and sometimes costs you a rudder. Other that that, a 12 foot extension is probably the most you could deal with. That's about 16 feet of tubing with a 4 foot overlap. Some have the spare tire mount swing down to support the tongue. Neat idea.
 
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Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Persistence, I don't see this as any more problem of trailer launching any fixed keel boat. In this case, it is not so much a problem with "full keel," and more a problem of depth of keel. I have helped trailer launch J/24, Santana 20, and Impulse 21 boats, which all have about a 4' draft fixed fin keel. (Your CD 25 looks to me like a 25D as opposed to the original 25. CD25 lists 3' draft, CD25D lists 3.5'.) Most of the trailers for these fixed keep boats have a 25' long tongue extension and an auxiliary "jockey wheel" near the front of the trailer. It's all about getting the boat in deep enough to float off the trailer. Many people who don't have an extending tongue will have a jockey wheel, and will strap launch the trailer, where a towing strap is connecting trailer and tow vehicle. A deeper/steeper ramp will make launching easier, as the trailer won't have to go in the water as far, but the increased angle between the trailer and water surface can make retrieving more difficult on a steep ramp, because starting off, the bow will be at the bow stop, but as the boat settles on the trailer as it pulls out, it can often move back. (Had this problem with the Santana almost every time. He has like a 3' tray for the bottom of the 2' long keel bottom to sit on. As long as the keel sits more than 1/2 way on the tray, we can get it forward to where it needs to be on the tray.)
 

Karyon

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Jun 8, 2004
171
Hunter 23.5 Red deer, Alberta
Nice video, One thing that makes it easier is the rollers instead of bunks.
 

scoob

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Dec 9, 2016
15
Sage, Montgomery 17, 15, SageCat and 17 Denver
Nice video, One thing that makes it easier is the rollers instead of bunks.
with rollers really important the trailer is correctly designed. rollers cause a 'point load' where a bunk distributes the weight. an incorrectly designed 'roller' trailer can damage the hull.
 

JRacer

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Aug 9, 2011
1,331
Beneteau 310 Cheney KS (Wichita)
Towed my J24 about 7,000 miles a year when campaigning. More often than not, we craned it on and off. But, there were several times I had to ramp launch and retrieve it. I used a tow strap hooked on my hitch ball and looped around the trailer tongue. My trailer had a set of keel guides to guide the keel to the center of the trailer and I made them removable with bolts to allow me easy access to the keel for working on it. My trailer was patterned off the J24 Triad trailers. I preferred not to ramp launch/retrieve but it's definitely doable just takes a little longer and you run some risk of banging up the keel which was a big factor for us..
 
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Apr 26, 2015
660
S2 26 Mid On Trailer
. A deeper/steeper ramp will make launching easier, as the trailer won't have to go in the water as far, but the increased angle between the trailer and water surface can make retrieving more difficult on a steep ramp, because starting off, the bow will be at the bow stop, but as the boat settles on the trailer as it pulls out, it can often move back. (Had this problem with the Santana almost every time. He has like a 3' tray for the bottom of the 2' long keel bottom to sit on. As long as the keel sits more than 1/2 way on the tray, we can get it forward to where it needs to be on the tray.)
I have a trailer mod that eliminates this issue. Once I set up one more trailer and test the design on a different keel than mine and the patent office excepts the paperwork, I will explain. I don't plan to manufacture this design so one offs by individuals will be OK. I hope to have the testing complete by the end of Feb.
Another idea for getting the trailer in the water far enough to float, for the OP. Rather than straps or extensions check this video out. I would probably make something with smaller tires and narrower chassis (hand truck) that would slide on to the trailer under the boat. If you think some people can't back a trailer imagine going more than a few feet with this idea.
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
LeeandRick, nope. I don't see the benefit of that addition from the video over an extension or a strap for launching. It would be difficult to back and steer that. Do truckers ever back down a tandem? (I don't know.) Where the heck do they store it? Yes, the front of the trailer needs a robust rolling wheel (plastic wheels on a trailer jack don't seem good enough to roll well to me) for a long extension or a strap.

Karyon, I don't think rollers make it any easier than bunks to launch sailboats. Powerboats, yes, sailboats, no. Most sailboats are not a flat run aft from amidships the way power boats are (well, new style sleds are, but most recreational sailors don't have a sled inspired trailerable boat) so the deeper midships portion of the boat still needs to float over the aft rollers. My roller pod trailer is like this, and trust me, the boat isn't rolling on or off with a tug of a dock line or winch strap. It floats on and off. I did winch on my Harpoon 4.6, but it's a dinghy and it's supposed to have the keel strip riding on trailer rollers. And it's not a rockered, belly-like hull. Being a planing capable hull, I guess it's more flat aft like a powerboat, so...
 
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Nov 9, 2008
1,338
Pearson-O'Day 290 Portland Maine
Karyon, I don't think rollers make it any easier than bunks to launch sailboats. Powerboats, yes, sailboats, no. Most sailboats are not a flat run aft from amidships the way power boats are (well, new style sleds are, but most recreational sailors don't have a sled inspired trailerable boat) so the deeper midships portion of the boat still needs to float over the aft rollers.
Brian,

Gotta disagree, at least a little. As soon as the stern starts to float, the curved nature of the hull is much less of a problem. The hull isn't even sitting on the aft rollers but the bow is on the front ones, just too far back. Winch it up tight and the stern is still floating above the rollers but it was a lot easier to winch because of the rollers at the bow. Fire up the Hemi and start pulling: the stern settles into the rollers like a cradle. If you had the ability to really submerge the trailer and truly "float on", this might change but I've done the launch thing, probably 120 times so far and my experience thus far is "rollers ROCK!"
 

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Jun 8, 2004
10,024
-na -NA Anywhere USA
I use to with my equipment launch up to 36 foot sailboats off long ramps and even larger ones with hydraulic trailers and even off tractor trailers. The key with any launch and retrieval of a keel boat is the trailer, the proper tow vehicle which to do the job with, experience and of course the ramp itself.
First going into an unknown ramp area, you need to know the length of the ramp, any overhead wires, putting the mast up if necessary which will require a crane and so forth. Experience and safety are most important. So call and check out what ramps will work for you. In addition, never attempt to launch from a bulkhead or bridge like I use to if you do not have experience. My key over a bridge was long straps attached to a single point (not a spreader style) behind the mast, straps tied together at the railing but not to the railing, no wind, power boat standing by in the water and of course with the state hwy department permission which many came out to see this. This is for the experienced only. You catch my drift

On a ramp, I use to have a long wheeled dolly attached to the tongue and with safety chains attached to the tow vehicle and trailer.
First on the ramp I backed down to the water, chocked all wheels and left the safety chains on. I backed to the chocks and when fast, then detached with the trailer but still leaving safety chains attanched and of course I knew my ramps. Then detached the safety chains, moved forward and attached the long wheeled dolly extension attaching the safety chains as well. Then pulled up slowly off the chocks removing the chocks. The forward supports on the trailer were lowered and guiding the trailer into the water. When the boat started to float off the trailer, supports were lowered when needed. The key here was the forward supports lowered so the boat would not catch on the trailer. I had another fellow in the water or boat upwind with a line holding the boat so it would be kept straight or in parallel with the trailer particularly with a wing keel so the keel would not catch. Sometimes with no wind, I would abruptly stop but going slow and the boat would slide off. Reversed the procedure for retrieval. Had to do this at Kerr Lake/Buggs Island along the VA/NC border as there was no travel lifts on the lake due regs. Largest boat was a either a 45 or 49. Again experience. Also launched over bulkheads too. I always made every crane to extend supports even though the crane operator did not think so. I watched another fellow once who did not have the crane to extend the outriggers or supports and the crane tilted over. Threw that inexperienced operator off jumping into the seat and released as appropriately the hoist. Saved the boat and crane from and accident. Called the company and was thanked for that.

In additiuon when trailering, permits needed for each state if over width, over length, over height and so on regardless which state the boat trailer is in. Also you have to be carful when turning so the boat and trailer will not catch particularly with mast on top of the boat.

I could go on but again exerecise good judgement focusing on safety is the guide.
.
 
Jul 21, 2016
42
san juan 7.7 wabamun
To answer the original question, yes. I have a San Juan 7.7, 4 1/2' draft. My extension is about 10' and is pretty heavy duty. I end up with my rear axle submerged, so a little longer would be better.
Last fall we used the marinas tractor instead and it was barely able to go deep enough.
Best advice I can give is check your floating depth for the boat to come off the trailer, walk down the ramp to that depth to make sure there is still a ramp there.
Once weighted you might not be able to pull the boat out if it's sinking in the mud
Edit, my mind read fin keel in your question:) It still applies with depth though
 
Apr 15, 2015
11
Cape Dory 25 Trailered
Thanks for your reply Chris Mac. Would you happen to have a pic of your extension set up?
 
Jul 21, 2016
42
san juan 7.7 wabamun
Thanks for your reply Chris Mac. Would you happen to have a pic of your extension set up?
These are the best pics I got right now. That centre channel has w smaller diameter tube steel inside. The hitch is on the smaller one. To extend, block trailer tires,pull one keeper pin, and slowly pull forward. After 10' or so, there is another hole for the pin.
In the spring I'll take a better pic if I remember
 

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Apr 15, 2015
11
Cape Dory 25 Trailered
These are the best pics I got right now. That centre channel has w smaller diameter tube steel inside. The hitch is on the smaller one. To extend, block trailer tires,pull one keeper pin, and slowly pull forward. After 10' or so, there is another hole for the pin.
In the spring I'll take a better pic if I remember
Ok. Thanks.
 
Mar 12, 2016
51
Macgregor 26M Local Freshwater Lakes
[QUOTEA deeper/steeper ramp will make launching easier, as the trailer won't have to go in the water as far, but the increased angle between the trailer and water surface can make retrieving more difficult on a steep ramp, because starting off, the bow will be at the bow stop, but as the boat settles on the trailer as it pulls out, it can often move back. (Had this problem with the Santana almost every time. He has like a 3' tray for the bottom of the 2' long keel bottom to sit on. As long as the keel sits more than 1/2 way on the tray, we can get it forward to where it needs to be on the tray.)[/QUOTE]
I have a Macgregor 26 M with a retractable centerboard and with it fully up in the trunk only about 12" of draft. Launching is never a problem of course. None the less, retrieving off of a "normal" ramp the M26 famously backs away from the tray about six inches and despite what the company says you can run forward and slam on the brakes all you want and it doesn't move an inch. I appreciated your explanation of why this happens. I guessed it was something like that. I have found I can alleviate that space by pulling out part way winching, out a little more winching etc. but I can never get it to seat completely. I noted a video on you tube or someplace where I guy welded up an adjustable tray that moves back to the bow. He must be a type A like me. :)
 
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Apr 26, 2015
660
S2 26 Mid On Trailer
I currently use 2 winches on the trailer at the bow to get the position right every time no matter the ramp angle. One winch pulls in the normal direction the other lifts the bow. By lifting the bow the boat is achieving the same angle as the trailer, and when you pull it to the bow stop with the forward pull winch it is right where it needs to be when pulling out of the water. I'm pulling our boat out in a couple of days and will get some pictures (maybe video if someone is around). The 2 winch idea works on our O'Day 23 and some other smaller boats we have had, but not sure about larger displacement, especially wide stern, boats.

I like to put the boat in the same place to avoid pressure points from the bunks and the same tongue weight every time.

I was hoping to finish fabrication of a better way to attain the same location with one winch. The flu this weekend has slowed my progress. This involves a pivot point at the forward edge of the keel with all boat supports forward of the pivot mounted on this pivoting structure including the winch. This all pivots up as you pull out of the water and the stern settles on to the fixed bunks. Once clear of the water you pin this structure to the main trailer frame for travel. There are many more good benefits to this, like doing away with the winch, keel guides that remain parallel to the water line and shallower float off/on depths. Once I get video and pictures I will open up a discussion here to refine the idea. This needs to be an open source project since there are so many trailers and boat designs. I know most of you don't care but there are a few of us seeking the perfect trailer.
 
Feb 21, 2013
4,638
Hunter 46 Point Richmond, CA
Is anyone here trailering a 25' full keel boat and launching from boat ramps? If so, how long should the tongue extension be?
You should find the answers in the threads below: