Trailer brake fire!
- Thread starter Delezynski
- Start date
Has nothing to do with bearings, you must have missed reading the sentence about brake pads.
I have seen, experienced and repaired many brake fires over the years as a former dealer and yes over tightened bearings will create friction causing a fire regardless of brakes or not. I am trying to cover all bases here for others to look at to include non braking trailers.
Anything can happen and I too read his description several times. I thought this was a new trailer being a 2014 model but advised it is a 2012. As for the bearings with no maintenance, that was hard to swallow.. You gotta have grease.
Monkeybars, I am not trying to dispute you sir, but I experience and know a lot. As for pulling trailers as a dealer, I quite counting at about 2,000,000 miles experiencing much more than a typical owner. I find at times, descriptions of things occurring, not everything is included which is why I try to investigate.
Anything can happen and I too read his description several times. I thought this was a new trailer being a 2014 model but advised it is a 2012. As for the bearings with no maintenance, that was hard to swallow.. You gotta have grease.
Monkeybars, I am not trying to dispute you sir, but I experience and know a lot. As for pulling trailers as a dealer, I quite counting at about 2,000,000 miles experiencing much more than a typical owner. I find at times, descriptions of things occurring, not everything is included which is why I try to investigate.
Brake fire recap
If you have not read the thread from the start, I have a 2012
Pacific, 3 axle boat trailer with surge disk breaks on the forward 2 axles. I use this trailer to tow our Nor'Sea 27 sail boat that has a spec of something like 8,600 pounds dry. With gear and fuel aboard I am sure I am a bit over this. BUT, I do drain the fresh water tanks before a tow.
I used the trailer to tow from Guaymas Mexico to the Phoenix Az. Area. https://youtu.be/9FcG4H_dQyQ
We then towed to and from the Napa Valley for a cruise. https://youtu.be/tcat84ORW1A
We then towed to New Orleans for a cruise over to Pensacola Fl. And back to Az. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n69SgRyZ2b4&list=PLnA9GMvTHKta6ceNDwrPIsyES050HXvlv
we were towing from the Phoenix area to the Tampa area. A longer trip, but no mountains to cross.
During the week before we departed I checked all tire pressures and we did a complete change of break fluid. This was the 3rd change of fluid. I used a hand vacuum pump to draw the fluid through the system into a quart jar at the break caliper. In doing this, you are advised to use a heavy coat of thick grease around the base of the bleeder fitting in order to block any air from entering the bleeder fitting. I used a bit of grease I had at hand. It was a winch grease. In retrospect this may have added to my problem as it is not a “high temp” type grease. I also did not thoroughly clean all the grease away.
When we first hooked up to the trailer in the storage yard, I did a check of each tire/wheel/brake to look for problems. I used my bare hand to check for any leaks.
After the first 5, then again at 25 +/- miles we stopped and I again checked all components of the system. I felt each bearing to insure I could hold on to it with NO discomfort from heat build up. I found no leaks and checked each disk for even wear. I checked each tire for proper pressure.
NOTE; the tires say to fill to 60 PSI when cold. After running for about an hour at 55~60 MPH, then checking the tire pressure (mid 70's F day), the pressure was up to almost 70~75 PSI. So I removed enough air to bring them all to 55 PSI when cold, the start of the second day.
NOTE: Time & Mile data is from our towing log book.
At the first fill up of the second day, (1007 AM, mile 273355) the right front tire was a bit low. I decided I may have blundered during the morning fill, so added air to get back to 55 PSI. I decided that if it showed low on the next fill up, I would change it out for one of the spares I have along. It did NOT make it to the next fill. I was looking in the mirror just as it parted! (1430 PM mile 273577) So we pulled over and I put on the spares. YES, I used my torque wrench. I know it may not be recently calibrated, but I am no longer working on aircraft or spacecraft. I did a check of all the other items but do not remember anything amiss. We made one more fuel stop that day and everything checked good.
The next AM (0815 mile 273711) did a pre-launch check and all was good, including air pressure and break fluid.
At 11:07 AM, mile 273821 we did a fuel stop and I did my all around touch & feel and ALL checked good.
At approx. 1:40 mile 273927 the brake fire took place. It was the right front caliper ONLY. Once more I was glad I was watching closely! Jill manned a pump water sprayer we keep handy for any need and kept the flames down as I got the fire bottle out. 2 quick squirts and it was out. NO damage to any other parts of the trailer or boat. Not even the brake lines were damaged.
The fire took place after we were in a long line of stop & go traffic. It was maybe half an hour of this and we were just getting back up to speed.
I called Boat US as we have a tow policy with them and it says it covers trailer assistance also! WE LOVE IT!!!!!! I may be a member for life!
Our boat on our trailer is about 12. 5 feet off the ground, so they could not find any assistance that could put our system on a trailer and still go under any overpasses. They found a mobile mechanic to come out to assist us. Once he arrived, he removed both right calipers. The aft one had maybe 10~12 % of the pad remaining. It showed a lot of heat, but no fire. The forward one had 0 % pad remaining. It was down to the metal backing plate. The two on the left had 85~90 % remaining, almost like new??
With the lines tied up, and no brakes on the trailer we went back about 5 ~ 10 miles to the only hotel we could get a spot in. WHO knew all the rooms fill up so fast in mid Texas??
The mechanic took the 2 calipers back to his shop and started a search for replacements. I talked to them on the phone and requested that if he found them, get 4. I wanted to replace them ALL as we were 45 miles shy of half way to Tampa.
The mec found the parts and installed all 4. When we (YES I WAS HELPING ALL THE TIME!) tried/// to bleed the system, we could not get any fluid through it! So, we removed the surge box and it was taken to Magnum Trailers. As we were disconnected any way, we drove to Magnum and went over the box with the mechanic there. We decided to go ahead and replace the master cylinder (a $45 part) and as long as it was open, change out the solenoid shutoff also. We then took it back, attached it to the trailer and...... and....... and.... the brake line would NOT snug up on the solenoid! I called and suggested I tow the 25 miles to the shop. The next day, I did a white knuckle no trailer brake drive. Turns out there are 2 solenoids that can fit, but each has a different output fitting. That difference is almost invisible to the human eye!
They changed out the wrong one, put on a power bleeder and pumped about a quart of DOT 3 through the system! It was now working as new, as MOST of it was NEW!!!
The rest of the trip, I made about 55 to 60 MPH and stopped every 100 miles or so, doing the same checks. We are now in the Tampa area and getting ready to splash for some sailing. As a note, At each fuel stop I check the MPG and it remained about the same before and after the caliper change.
SOOOOO, WHAT HAPPENED? I talked to each of the people we worked with. NONE had a definitive cause that could be verified. But the trailer mec said he felt that I “might” have had a small air bubble in the caliper that burned. As that system heated during the stop & go the bubble heated and expanded to lock that one???
That plus my use of less than high temp grease and not cleaning it ALL off could have added to the problem.
At this point, I do not know for sure. But I can say, that thanks to some good input from this and other forums, before I do another long tow, I plan to purchase the following;
One last item, we talked to a couple of people who deal in trailers. NOT in trailer tires. They said that if your tires are over 5 years old, EVEN if they have not rolled 5 feet on a highway, REPLACE THEM. NOT my word, info for you to use as you see fit.
Hope this helps some one to avoid the problems I had.
Greg
If you have not read the thread from the start, I have a 2012
Pacific, 3 axle boat trailer with surge disk breaks on the forward 2 axles. I use this trailer to tow our Nor'Sea 27 sail boat that has a spec of something like 8,600 pounds dry. With gear and fuel aboard I am sure I am a bit over this. BUT, I do drain the fresh water tanks before a tow.
I used the trailer to tow from Guaymas Mexico to the Phoenix Az. Area. https://youtu.be/9FcG4H_dQyQ
We then towed to and from the Napa Valley for a cruise. https://youtu.be/tcat84ORW1A
We then towed to New Orleans for a cruise over to Pensacola Fl. And back to Az. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n69SgRyZ2b4&list=PLnA9GMvTHKta6ceNDwrPIsyES050HXvlv
we were towing from the Phoenix area to the Tampa area. A longer trip, but no mountains to cross.
During the week before we departed I checked all tire pressures and we did a complete change of break fluid. This was the 3rd change of fluid. I used a hand vacuum pump to draw the fluid through the system into a quart jar at the break caliper. In doing this, you are advised to use a heavy coat of thick grease around the base of the bleeder fitting in order to block any air from entering the bleeder fitting. I used a bit of grease I had at hand. It was a winch grease. In retrospect this may have added to my problem as it is not a “high temp” type grease. I also did not thoroughly clean all the grease away.
When we first hooked up to the trailer in the storage yard, I did a check of each tire/wheel/brake to look for problems. I used my bare hand to check for any leaks.
After the first 5, then again at 25 +/- miles we stopped and I again checked all components of the system. I felt each bearing to insure I could hold on to it with NO discomfort from heat build up. I found no leaks and checked each disk for even wear. I checked each tire for proper pressure.
NOTE; the tires say to fill to 60 PSI when cold. After running for about an hour at 55~60 MPH, then checking the tire pressure (mid 70's F day), the pressure was up to almost 70~75 PSI. So I removed enough air to bring them all to 55 PSI when cold, the start of the second day.
NOTE: Time & Mile data is from our towing log book.
At the first fill up of the second day, (1007 AM, mile 273355) the right front tire was a bit low. I decided I may have blundered during the morning fill, so added air to get back to 55 PSI. I decided that if it showed low on the next fill up, I would change it out for one of the spares I have along. It did NOT make it to the next fill. I was looking in the mirror just as it parted! (1430 PM mile 273577) So we pulled over and I put on the spares. YES, I used my torque wrench. I know it may not be recently calibrated, but I am no longer working on aircraft or spacecraft. I did a check of all the other items but do not remember anything amiss. We made one more fuel stop that day and everything checked good.
The next AM (0815 mile 273711) did a pre-launch check and all was good, including air pressure and break fluid.
At 11:07 AM, mile 273821 we did a fuel stop and I did my all around touch & feel and ALL checked good.
At approx. 1:40 mile 273927 the brake fire took place. It was the right front caliper ONLY. Once more I was glad I was watching closely! Jill manned a pump water sprayer we keep handy for any need and kept the flames down as I got the fire bottle out. 2 quick squirts and it was out. NO damage to any other parts of the trailer or boat. Not even the brake lines were damaged.
The fire took place after we were in a long line of stop & go traffic. It was maybe half an hour of this and we were just getting back up to speed.
I called Boat US as we have a tow policy with them and it says it covers trailer assistance also! WE LOVE IT!!!!!! I may be a member for life!
Our boat on our trailer is about 12. 5 feet off the ground, so they could not find any assistance that could put our system on a trailer and still go under any overpasses. They found a mobile mechanic to come out to assist us. Once he arrived, he removed both right calipers. The aft one had maybe 10~12 % of the pad remaining. It showed a lot of heat, but no fire. The forward one had 0 % pad remaining. It was down to the metal backing plate. The two on the left had 85~90 % remaining, almost like new??
With the lines tied up, and no brakes on the trailer we went back about 5 ~ 10 miles to the only hotel we could get a spot in. WHO knew all the rooms fill up so fast in mid Texas??
The mechanic took the 2 calipers back to his shop and started a search for replacements. I talked to them on the phone and requested that if he found them, get 4. I wanted to replace them ALL as we were 45 miles shy of half way to Tampa.
The mec found the parts and installed all 4. When we (YES I WAS HELPING ALL THE TIME!) tried/// to bleed the system, we could not get any fluid through it! So, we removed the surge box and it was taken to Magnum Trailers. As we were disconnected any way, we drove to Magnum and went over the box with the mechanic there. We decided to go ahead and replace the master cylinder (a $45 part) and as long as it was open, change out the solenoid shutoff also. We then took it back, attached it to the trailer and...... and....... and.... the brake line would NOT snug up on the solenoid! I called and suggested I tow the 25 miles to the shop. The next day, I did a white knuckle no trailer brake drive. Turns out there are 2 solenoids that can fit, but each has a different output fitting. That difference is almost invisible to the human eye!
They changed out the wrong one, put on a power bleeder and pumped about a quart of DOT 3 through the system! It was now working as new, as MOST of it was NEW!!!
The rest of the trip, I made about 55 to 60 MPH and stopped every 100 miles or so, doing the same checks. We are now in the Tampa area and getting ready to splash for some sailing. As a note, At each fuel stop I check the MPG and it remained about the same before and after the caliper change.
SOOOOO, WHAT HAPPENED? I talked to each of the people we worked with. NONE had a definitive cause that could be verified. But the trailer mec said he felt that I “might” have had a small air bubble in the caliper that burned. As that system heated during the stop & go the bubble heated and expanded to lock that one???
That plus my use of less than high temp grease and not cleaning it ALL off could have added to the problem.
At this point, I do not know for sure. But I can say, that thanks to some good input from this and other forums, before I do another long tow, I plan to purchase the following;
- A brake fluid test pen. It checks for water in the system and gives a positive feedback.
- A power brake bleeder kit.
- A system to remotely read the tire PSI & temp.
One last item, we talked to a couple of people who deal in trailers. NOT in trailer tires. They said that if your tires are over 5 years old, EVEN if they have not rolled 5 feet on a highway, REPLACE THEM. NOT my word, info for you to use as you see fit.
Hope this helps some one to avoid the problems I had.
Greg
Greg;
even with RV's, many replace the tires after 5 years and I do on my RV as I experienced that with the older tires that came with it as I purchased a used one. That is good advice on the tires to replace every 4-5 years. In addition, it is suggested that you have a minimum of 10-20 % safety margin of weight on the tires when towing. In other words if the total weight of trailer and boat as an example weigh 80 lbs., the tires should be able to carry a max of 100 lbs.
The thing that stood out are the pads (thickness on one side vs. the other) Two things that come to mind. Could the total weight of the boat, gear and trailer exceed the carrying weight of the tires? Are the axles aligned and positioned correctly on the trailer and finally were the brake pads adjusted equally properly?
I would double check on those items as the pad thickness on one side vs. the other stood out which should be a major factor here.
even with RV's, many replace the tires after 5 years and I do on my RV as I experienced that with the older tires that came with it as I purchased a used one. That is good advice on the tires to replace every 4-5 years. In addition, it is suggested that you have a minimum of 10-20 % safety margin of weight on the tires when towing. In other words if the total weight of trailer and boat as an example weigh 80 lbs., the tires should be able to carry a max of 100 lbs.
The thing that stood out are the pads (thickness on one side vs. the other) Two things that come to mind. Could the total weight of the boat, gear and trailer exceed the carrying weight of the tires? Are the axles aligned and positioned correctly on the trailer and finally were the brake pads adjusted equally properly?
I would double check on those items as the pad thickness on one side vs. the other stood out which should be a major factor here.
Greg/Jill
I reckon you know this but cold tires are good tires.
Lower tire pressures cause excessive sidewall flex and the internal friction set up by flex causes heat. The higher the pressure the less the flex and the cooler the tire. Hot tires (lower pressures) are bad tires. If you detect overheating of a tire at your rest stop walk arounds add 3 psi over the value stamped on the tire sidewall itself.
The central point is to keep the pressure all the way the maximum plus 3 if necessary. Trailer tire capacity deteriorates over time and this is because of the way "T" type tires are built so the older the tire the more picky one needs to be about pressure.
Looks like easy trucking from now on - perhaps see you in Phoenix in June if your are back.
Charles
I reckon you know this but cold tires are good tires.
Lower tire pressures cause excessive sidewall flex and the internal friction set up by flex causes heat. The higher the pressure the less the flex and the cooler the tire. Hot tires (lower pressures) are bad tires. If you detect overheating of a tire at your rest stop walk arounds add 3 psi over the value stamped on the tire sidewall itself.
The central point is to keep the pressure all the way the maximum plus 3 if necessary. Trailer tire capacity deteriorates over time and this is because of the way "T" type tires are built so the older the tire the more picky one needs to be about pressure.
Looks like easy trucking from now on - perhaps see you in Phoenix in June if your are back.
Charles
May see you then. We expect to be back there some time in June, just not sure when. Depends on how much fun we are having this side.
Greg
OVer the years as a dealer having worked on trailers, it is important to maintain the pressure in tires. I have had many blow due to overheating from improper inflation. Never in my 30 plus years the only thing seen to go wrong is a blow out never causing a brake fire.
the thing that stuck out to me was the wear of the brake pads on one side gone and on the other side most intact which tells me the problem can be from one or more to include, bearings too tightly installed, brake pads adjusted too tight, brake line failure not allowing the brakes to recede back when the brakes are not applied, off centered axle, bad bearings to begin with, etc... Since I am not there to inspect and have done too many roadside repairs one or a combination of the above is the most likely what caused the failure. I did the work for a living.
Rick, I too am curious what did cause the failure
the thing that stuck out to me was the wear of the brake pads on one side gone and on the other side most intact which tells me the problem can be from one or more to include, bearings too tightly installed, brake pads adjusted too tight, brake line failure not allowing the brakes to recede back when the brakes are not applied, off centered axle, bad bearings to begin with, etc... Since I am not there to inspect and have done too many roadside repairs one or a combination of the above is the most likely what caused the failure. I did the work for a living.
Rick, I too am curious what did cause the failure
from reading his report i think what caused the fire was this
Our boat on our trailer is about 12. 5 feet off the ground, so they could not find any assistance that could put our system on a trailer and still go under any overpasses. They found a mobile mechanic to come out to assist us. Once he arrived, he removed both right calipers. The aft one had maybe 10~12 % of the pad remaining. It showed a lot of heat, but no fire. The forward one had 0 % pad remaining. It was down to the metal backing plate. The two on the left had 85~90 % remaining, almost like new??
the metal to metal contact on the right front generated tremendous heat enough so that it started the fire ......the pad was gone and only 15% left on the second axle..now i have no idea what cause them to wear down on that side other than the calipers were not retracting fully relaxed and the retraction problem could have been due to the botched grease clean up greg mentioned in his report
Our boat on our trailer is about 12. 5 feet off the ground, so they could not find any assistance that could put our system on a trailer and still go under any overpasses. They found a mobile mechanic to come out to assist us. Once he arrived, he removed both right calipers. The aft one had maybe 10~12 % of the pad remaining. It showed a lot of heat, but no fire. The forward one had 0 % pad remaining. It was down to the metal backing plate. The two on the left had 85~90 % remaining, almost like new??
the metal to metal contact on the right front generated tremendous heat enough so that it started the fire ......the pad was gone and only 15% left on the second axle..now i have no idea what cause them to wear down on that side other than the calipers were not retracting fully relaxed and the retraction problem could have been due to the botched grease clean up greg mentioned in his report
right on, this was a no brainer, in most cases the lack of silicon grease on slider bolts with a little corrosion allow calibers to contract under pressure but will not retract when line pressure is released due to friction. Its a very simple maintenance fix and the most common cause of ruined pads,rotors, and fires.
Calipers not Releasing
That was my first thought too. That was why I mentioned making sure the surge brake actuator is full retracted (all the way forward) whenever you park the trailer.
If fact I make it a practice now to block the wheels and pull forward so that the pressure is on the front side of the coupler rather than the rear. I parked a Sunfish trailer in the sand a few years ago and when I disconnected it rolled forward and scratched the bumper on my wife's Town Car. It happened a few times on the truck as well but I always had my fingers out of the way and was not too concerned about it. A bashed finger would have been less painful than the scratch on the then new car.
That was my first thought too. That was why I mentioned making sure the surge brake actuator is full retracted (all the way forward) whenever you park the trailer.
If fact I make it a practice now to block the wheels and pull forward so that the pressure is on the front side of the coupler rather than the rear. I parked a Sunfish trailer in the sand a few years ago and when I disconnected it rolled forward and scratched the bumper on my wife's Town Car. It happened a few times on the truck as well but I always had my fingers out of the way and was not too concerned about it. A bashed finger would have been less painful than the scratch on the then new car.
I just posted a short Youtube video of the checks we make during towing at each stop. You might want to take a look.
It's at; http://youtu.be/sjhmkOJnxks
It's not part of our normal "Position Report" but I have gotten a LOT of questions and comments from this and other groups.
If you watch it all, at the end, I ask for any more ideas on what more to do along the way????
Greg
It's at; http://youtu.be/sjhmkOJnxks
It's not part of our normal "Position Report" but I have gotten a LOT of questions and comments from this and other groups.
If you watch it all, at the end, I ask for any more ideas on what more to do along the way????
Greg
Thanks for the put on the slider bolts. I did NOT lube them recently.
SOOOOoooo, how often do they need lubed? What maint schedule should they be on??
Greg
THANKS for the kind words!!
Hey, we are on the boat, so it's good. Better to be on the water, but on the boat ain't bad.
Greg
I had a trailer with buddy bearings... Unfortunately, they didn't work so well
Trailering up from S. Florida about 20 miles from the final destination, I noticed the boat in the rear view drop down on the passenger side and then saw the tire as it bounced past me on the right. Continued about 100 feet in front of me, veered to the left and nailed the side of a camper in the lane beside me before running down the embankment and into the woods. Bearing completely failed, came apart and the wheel let go. Heck of a time getting it the rest of the way, but had a brother in law with a flat bed trailer that came to the rescue.
At least yours didn't decide to leave the trailer
Cheers,
Brad
Trailering up from S. Florida about 20 miles from the final destination, I noticed the boat in the rear view drop down on the passenger side and then saw the tire as it bounced past me on the right. Continued about 100 feet in front of me, veered to the left and nailed the side of a camper in the lane beside me before running down the embankment and into the woods. Bearing completely failed, came apart and the wheel let go. Heck of a time getting it the rest of the way, but had a brother in law with a flat bed trailer that came to the rescue.
At least yours didn't decide to leave the trailer
Cheers,
Brad