Am about to haul boat in a DIY yard and redo the bottom paint. Probably use Trinidad. Does anybody know how careful I must be of the dust from sanding the old bottom paint to prep the surface for the new paint. I imagine that the dust will go all over and one should at least wear a respirator to prevent breathing the dust. How about protection of exposed skin and eyes? Is this necessary? Thanks for comments Henry
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anti-fouling paint
Antifouling paint is extremely toxic. I wet sand my boat bottom with 80 Grit wet n dry to eliminate the dust. I also wear rubber gloves.
Antifouling paint is extremely toxic. I wet sand my boat bottom with 80 Grit wet n dry to eliminate the dust. I also wear rubber gloves.
anti fouling is very toxic
you should wear a full body coverall (disposable) they are cheap enough and available at most marine stores. You should also wear some sort of resperator or breathing mask. You might want to check with the yard you will most likely need to cover the ground to catch as much of the sanding residue. I would suggest a pair of safety glasses (the type that wrap around your eyes). You will need to be consious of the fact that your sanding grit may wind up on someone else boat thus making there white boat blue,green,black or whatever. Most owners will be very upset as you would be if it happened to you boat. The wet sanding will help to stop alot of these issuse. be sure to take a shower after you are done sanding to get all the paint residue off your body, you will be amazed at were it will end up (in your ears,etc.)Good Luck! It is a dirty job!
you should wear a full body coverall (disposable) they are cheap enough and available at most marine stores. You should also wear some sort of resperator or breathing mask. You might want to check with the yard you will most likely need to cover the ground to catch as much of the sanding residue. I would suggest a pair of safety glasses (the type that wrap around your eyes). You will need to be consious of the fact that your sanding grit may wind up on someone else boat thus making there white boat blue,green,black or whatever. Most owners will be very upset as you would be if it happened to you boat. The wet sanding will help to stop alot of these issuse. be sure to take a shower after you are done sanding to get all the paint residue off your body, you will be amazed at were it will end up (in your ears,etc.)Good Luck! It is a dirty job!
Shop Vac your sander
My bottom man connects an extra-long vacuum hose (maybe two) to his orbital sander and places the shopvac as far away as convenient. He also said to use a paper filter in the shopvac because it catches finer particles than the foam filter. The vacuum sucks a lot of the toxic dust away from the work area and contains it. BE SURE TO USE EVERY OTHER PROTECTION TECHNIQUE
My bottom man connects an extra-long vacuum hose (maybe two) to his orbital sander and places the shopvac as far away as convenient. He also said to use a paper filter in the shopvac because it catches finer particles than the foam filter. The vacuum sucks a lot of the toxic dust away from the work area and contains it. BE SURE TO USE EVERY OTHER PROTECTION TECHNIQUE
Bottom paint
Henry, The toxicity of bottom paint has lead me to use ablative paint. It requires no sanding and wears away as the boat moves through the water preventing buildup. The paint goes dormant when the boat is hauled and can be reactivated by a scrubing with a stiff brush and water before relaunch - providing there is enough paint on the bottom that the boat does not require additional paint. To repaint simply scrub with a stiff brush and water, let dry, and recoat. Ideally, two or three coats should be applied, with each coat lasting a season. In reality, the high wear area will have to be recoated every year (leading edges). I apply two thin coats of ablative and then hit the leading edges again just before launch. Unfortunately, ablative multi season paint is rather expensive. Interlux CSC costs about $130.00 a gallon. There are two options to help manage the cost. 1. Interlux has come out with a single season ablative bottom paint called ACT which is less expensive. They also have a single season water base ablative which is also cheaper but not so readily available. I have used both of these and they are definitely single season paints. I boat in the Chesapeake, where the boat is hauled each season. The ACT was completely worn off of the leading edges and the first couple inches of the water line immediately below the boot stripe. 2. West Marine has an multi season ablative, I believe it is called CCP, which is about $30.00 or $35.00 less expensive then the Interlux. Turns out CCP is made by Interlux (I believe all W. M. antifouling paints are made by Interlux) AND HAS A HIGHER COPPER CONTENT then the Interlux CSC. I have gone to using this W. M. product with quite satisfactory results - AND NO SANDING DUST! PAT
Henry, The toxicity of bottom paint has lead me to use ablative paint. It requires no sanding and wears away as the boat moves through the water preventing buildup. The paint goes dormant when the boat is hauled and can be reactivated by a scrubing with a stiff brush and water before relaunch - providing there is enough paint on the bottom that the boat does not require additional paint. To repaint simply scrub with a stiff brush and water, let dry, and recoat. Ideally, two or three coats should be applied, with each coat lasting a season. In reality, the high wear area will have to be recoated every year (leading edges). I apply two thin coats of ablative and then hit the leading edges again just before launch. Unfortunately, ablative multi season paint is rather expensive. Interlux CSC costs about $130.00 a gallon. There are two options to help manage the cost. 1. Interlux has come out with a single season ablative bottom paint called ACT which is less expensive. They also have a single season water base ablative which is also cheaper but not so readily available. I have used both of these and they are definitely single season paints. I boat in the Chesapeake, where the boat is hauled each season. The ACT was completely worn off of the leading edges and the first couple inches of the water line immediately below the boot stripe. 2. West Marine has an multi season ablative, I believe it is called CCP, which is about $30.00 or $35.00 less expensive then the Interlux. Turns out CCP is made by Interlux (I believe all W. M. antifouling paints are made by Interlux) AND HAS A HIGHER COPPER CONTENT then the Interlux CSC. I have gone to using this W. M. product with quite satisfactory results - AND NO SANDING DUST! PAT
Be Careful
If you take proper precautions you can do a bottom paint project yourself and save some money and probably do a better job than the yard. 1. Keep the dust off your body, i.e., arms face, and out of your eyes and nose. The paper suits, masks, and gogles are good for this. 2. Jim said to use a shop vac in conjunction with a random orbital suction sander - EXCELLENT idea. This is what we use and it's absolutely the best provided everything is working properly. 3. Shop vac bag - use the DRYWALL bag only! This is the only one that gets the fine particles out. The copper in the paint can be hard on the shop vac motor. 4. Connecting hose - between the shop vac and the sander: The hose is probably 1 or 1-1/4 inch and will require an adapter at the shop vac end. If the connection isn't air tight put some duct tape on it. You need all the suction you can get. Ditto on the orbital sander end. 5. Keep the small diameter hose empty of dust. The dust is heavy and can settle out to pick up the hose and work the settled out stuff back to the shop vac periodically. 6. If your yard allows it, consider using Labor Ready or similar help. That way you can watch. 8 hours at $15/hr in our area is fairly cheap.
If you take proper precautions you can do a bottom paint project yourself and save some money and probably do a better job than the yard. 1. Keep the dust off your body, i.e., arms face, and out of your eyes and nose. The paper suits, masks, and gogles are good for this. 2. Jim said to use a shop vac in conjunction with a random orbital suction sander - EXCELLENT idea. This is what we use and it's absolutely the best provided everything is working properly. 3. Shop vac bag - use the DRYWALL bag only! This is the only one that gets the fine particles out. The copper in the paint can be hard on the shop vac motor. 4. Connecting hose - between the shop vac and the sander: The hose is probably 1 or 1-1/4 inch and will require an adapter at the shop vac end. If the connection isn't air tight put some duct tape on it. You need all the suction you can get. Ditto on the orbital sander end. 5. Keep the small diameter hose empty of dust. The dust is heavy and can settle out to pick up the hose and work the settled out stuff back to the shop vac periodically. 6. If your yard allows it, consider using Labor Ready or similar help. That way you can watch. 8 hours at $15/hr in our area is fairly cheap.
More comments....
Your Boat: ...here in San Diego the boat must be skirted for any sanding projects. I recommend this anyway, just as a courtesy to your neighbors in the yard. You'll need 3 or 4 large plastic tarps. The yard might have some you can borrow. A shop vac is definitely the way to go, but, there will still be lots of colored dust floating around. I recommend you take a little extra time and cover the topsides also, since the dust will rise and then settle on it. Believe me, you can't just hose it off. It must be rubbed off. The inexpensive plastic drop cloths from Home Depot and some masking tape will work for the topsides. (By the way, Home Depot has the blue 3M tape at half the cost of the marine stores.) ...An alternative to sanding is a chemical stripper. Check the archives for discussions on this... Your Body: -A good respirator. I found one at Home Depot for about $50, with filter inserts. Paper dust masks are NOT acceptable. -Goggles or some kind of eye protection. -Disposable body suit with a hood to keep that crap out of your hair and ears. -Light weight cloth gloves, such as those used for gardening. ****** P.S. I agree with John, if you can, hire someone else to do the sanding. The fun part is the painting.
Your Boat: ...here in San Diego the boat must be skirted for any sanding projects. I recommend this anyway, just as a courtesy to your neighbors in the yard. You'll need 3 or 4 large plastic tarps. The yard might have some you can borrow. A shop vac is definitely the way to go, but, there will still be lots of colored dust floating around. I recommend you take a little extra time and cover the topsides also, since the dust will rise and then settle on it. Believe me, you can't just hose it off. It must be rubbed off. The inexpensive plastic drop cloths from Home Depot and some masking tape will work for the topsides. (By the way, Home Depot has the blue 3M tape at half the cost of the marine stores.) ...An alternative to sanding is a chemical stripper. Check the archives for discussions on this... Your Body: -A good respirator. I found one at Home Depot for about $50, with filter inserts. Paper dust masks are NOT acceptable. -Goggles or some kind of eye protection. -Disposable body suit with a hood to keep that crap out of your hair and ears. -Light weight cloth gloves, such as those used for gardening. ****** P.S. I agree with John, if you can, hire someone else to do the sanding. The fun part is the painting.
another possibility
you might want to consider having some one do a sand blast to hull (do not use sand!)They have a "soda" solution or corn cob mix that they use. Some people don't like the blasting idea saying it is not good for the gel coat but alot of people do it, Just another idea!
you might want to consider having some one do a sand blast to hull (do not use sand!)They have a "soda" solution or corn cob mix that they use. Some people don't like the blasting idea saying it is not good for the gel coat but alot of people do it, Just another idea!
Water based
If you apply water based ablative paints, not only will you not have to sand, but you will not be breathing toxic solvents during the application either. Additionally, you can wash off your equipment (and yourself), with water! Petit and Trinidad make this paint. Works well in Mexico, where the water is hot!
If you apply water based ablative paints, not only will you not have to sand, but you will not be breathing toxic solvents during the application either. Additionally, you can wash off your equipment (and yourself), with water! Petit and Trinidad make this paint. Works well in Mexico, where the water is hot!
Water based revisited
Good Idea, Tim. Water based has many advantages, the one disadvantage is that it must be allowed to dry before emersion in water. This disadvantage is a big one as far as boatyards are concerned because it slows down the launch time considerably and creates more work for the yard. The pads will have to be moved so the spots can be painted at least several hours in advance of launch. Aside from that disadvantage it is very easy to use and lasts as long as regular oil base bottom ablatives. However, I believe that we will be seeing more use of the waterbased ablative bottom paints because of impending government requlations. I recommend ablative bottom paints for the ease of application, preperation, and recoating, not to mention water clean up and thinning. Additionally, they are less toxic because the copper content does not have to be so high for a paint that is designed to wear away, and the lack of sanding the surface prior to recoating. PAT
Good Idea, Tim. Water based has many advantages, the one disadvantage is that it must be allowed to dry before emersion in water. This disadvantage is a big one as far as boatyards are concerned because it slows down the launch time considerably and creates more work for the yard. The pads will have to be moved so the spots can be painted at least several hours in advance of launch. Aside from that disadvantage it is very easy to use and lasts as long as regular oil base bottom ablatives. However, I believe that we will be seeing more use of the waterbased ablative bottom paints because of impending government requlations. I recommend ablative bottom paints for the ease of application, preperation, and recoating, not to mention water clean up and thinning. Additionally, they are less toxic because the copper content does not have to be so high for a paint that is designed to wear away, and the lack of sanding the surface prior to recoating. PAT
Bottoms up!
I have enjoyed learning from you guys- especially as my boat is due to be hauled as soon as I can afford it (need to sell some more stuff!). THere are three things I would like to mention: 1. Blisters- this is going to be discussed in a future IG Newsletter and issue of the Forum.Here in the tropics minor blisters are seen in in a barrier-coated gelcoat. (THis happened to me) and usually on the "sunny side" of the boat I wonder why?. 2. Removing old bottom paint. There are chemical means of stripping ("gelstrip") that do not make sanding dust But I would like someone to try a little Island Girl Pink as I know it can be used to remove grafitti and will not touch gelcoat or catalyzed epoxy barrier coat. It can be inacrtivated and rinsed off with water- hopefully into a plastic cachmnet bag or some sorts. 3. Bottom paint dust. My boat was at the Ala Wai Boatyard slips for about 2 years off and on and was covered in bottom paint dust. As you know it can penetrate pores n the gelcoat causing "the grays" i.e. streaks in the gelcoat etc. This can be removed by IG Pink and then risned down although this will remove wax and rewaxing/dealing will be needed. ALternatively this is the time to do non-skid and hull with IG cleanser conditioners, wax etc. But be careful of single part varnishwhen doing this. Just a self-serving suggestion. There are a fre other cleaners that can be used - anything that says "do not stand on painted surfaces!). Thaks Jim Willis
I have enjoyed learning from you guys- especially as my boat is due to be hauled as soon as I can afford it (need to sell some more stuff!). THere are three things I would like to mention: 1. Blisters- this is going to be discussed in a future IG Newsletter and issue of the Forum.Here in the tropics minor blisters are seen in in a barrier-coated gelcoat. (THis happened to me) and usually on the "sunny side" of the boat I wonder why?. 2. Removing old bottom paint. There are chemical means of stripping ("gelstrip") that do not make sanding dust But I would like someone to try a little Island Girl Pink as I know it can be used to remove grafitti and will not touch gelcoat or catalyzed epoxy barrier coat. It can be inacrtivated and rinsed off with water- hopefully into a plastic cachmnet bag or some sorts. 3. Bottom paint dust. My boat was at the Ala Wai Boatyard slips for about 2 years off and on and was covered in bottom paint dust. As you know it can penetrate pores n the gelcoat causing "the grays" i.e. streaks in the gelcoat etc. This can be removed by IG Pink and then risned down although this will remove wax and rewaxing/dealing will be needed. ALternatively this is the time to do non-skid and hull with IG cleanser conditioners, wax etc. But be careful of single part varnishwhen doing this. Just a self-serving suggestion. There are a fre other cleaners that can be used - anything that says "do not stand on painted surfaces!). Thaks Jim Willis
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