Towing Story; Rescue or Salvage?
- Thread starter Paul Z
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Great Publicity!
The line to sign-up for Sea-Tow service starts here. What great PR! The boat owner is insured. The insurance company will decide what to do. Either pay the "claim" or fight Sea-Tow in court. Rights of salvage in international waters and rights of salvage in coastal waters may well be two different things. It is sad that some smart ass at Sea-Tow decided that going for the throat was the right thing to do. From my limited experience with Sea-Tow I'm not surprised. Bah!
The line to sign-up for Sea-Tow service starts here. What great PR! The boat owner is insured. The insurance company will decide what to do. Either pay the "claim" or fight Sea-Tow in court. Rights of salvage in international waters and rights of salvage in coastal waters may well be two different things. It is sad that some smart ass at Sea-Tow decided that going for the throat was the right thing to do. From my limited experience with Sea-Tow I'm not surprised. Bah!
Be interesting to see what Sea-Tow says about it.
Hi folks, I just sent Sea-Tow an e-mail demanding to know their position on this. I'll let everyone know what they say. This is what I sent. Hi folks, read this in one of the forums I read daily. Please tell me what you intend to do about it. And I don't mean the standard line about it being in the courts and you cannot comment. I mean do you feel that your Sea-Tow boat operator is within his rights...and I mean morally to take this action, assuming what I read is true? If he is within rights to do it legally, then what do you intend to do about it? I think anyone that tries this crap should be hung. After all they talk about Blackbeard being some sort of hero...he was a common thug. What he did may have been legal, however morally it was wrong and one thing about it...he had to answer for it when he died. Your turn. Jack Hart
Hi folks, I just sent Sea-Tow an e-mail demanding to know their position on this. I'll let everyone know what they say. This is what I sent. Hi folks, read this in one of the forums I read daily. Please tell me what you intend to do about it. And I don't mean the standard line about it being in the courts and you cannot comment. I mean do you feel that your Sea-Tow boat operator is within his rights...and I mean morally to take this action, assuming what I read is true? If he is within rights to do it legally, then what do you intend to do about it? I think anyone that tries this crap should be hung. After all they talk about Blackbeard being some sort of hero...he was a common thug. What he did may have been legal, however morally it was wrong and one thing about it...he had to answer for it when he died. Your turn. Jack Hart
Sea-Tow, eh?
Never heard of them in these waters (Great Lakes) but if I see these pirates, and that's what they are, I'll fire first and ask questions later. Aaargh!
Never heard of them in these waters (Great Lakes) but if I see these pirates, and that's what they are, I'll fire first and ask questions later. Aaargh!
Its a damn good thing ... that no one signed
a salvage bond contract (as an Open Lloyds of London Claim) as these are ONLY settled in London UK court ... and no matter where in the word the contract is signed. Any legal action on this is going to get 'very messy' and the salvor will ultimately get a 'pound of flesh'. Thats the way 'admiralty law' works. The importance of this statement is: be damn sure to read the fine print of your insurance policy very carefully and be damn sure that you do not SIGN an 'open claim' with a salvor. Such reference material and advice can be found on the BoatUS website: www.boatus.com. Go there and read it NOW as salvors have very strong legal rights to your property when "salvage" is undertaken or begun. I guess this is the main reason why the captain usually goes down with his ship.
a salvage bond contract (as an Open Lloyds of London Claim) as these are ONLY settled in London UK court ... and no matter where in the word the contract is signed. Any legal action on this is going to get 'very messy' and the salvor will ultimately get a 'pound of flesh'. Thats the way 'admiralty law' works. The importance of this statement is: be damn sure to read the fine print of your insurance policy very carefully and be damn sure that you do not SIGN an 'open claim' with a salvor. Such reference material and advice can be found on the BoatUS website: www.boatus.com. Go there and read it NOW as salvors have very strong legal rights to your property when "salvage" is undertaken or begun. I guess this is the main reason why the captain usually goes down with his ship.
They do not want to go to court;
They will probably reach a settlement for approximately $5,000-$10,000. Not a bad day's work; the relative proximity to a fire made it all possible and all insured are footing the bill.
They will probably reach a settlement for approximately $5,000-$10,000. Not a bad day's work; the relative proximity to a fire made it all possible and all insured are footing the bill.
I would go to court...
Sea-Tow was directed to assist by Rescue Boat 860. If Rescue Boat 860 is an "official" fire/rescue boat sanctioned by the state, then Sea-Tow must comply. Therefore, they have no grounds to send anyone a bill. Next, Sea-Tow's letter incorrectly stated that they performed services which in fact they did not. That would be considered "uttering" and therefore a criminal offense. Glad I am not a lawyer because I am probably wrong in both counts. However, it is a principle here that Sea-Tow misrepresented their claim. Just my humble thoughts on the matter.
Sea-Tow was directed to assist by Rescue Boat 860. If Rescue Boat 860 is an "official" fire/rescue boat sanctioned by the state, then Sea-Tow must comply. Therefore, they have no grounds to send anyone a bill. Next, Sea-Tow's letter incorrectly stated that they performed services which in fact they did not. That would be considered "uttering" and therefore a criminal offense. Glad I am not a lawyer because I am probably wrong in both counts. However, it is a principle here that Sea-Tow misrepresented their claim. Just my humble thoughts on the matter.
More humble thoughts.
Seatow stood by like a vulture. The fireboat took the risk and saved the imperiled boat by removing it from danger. Then it passed a line to the big boat (Seatow). For that, Seatow claims significant risk and a 10% reward. Right! Bastards. This one needs to be in court. They will lose the case and also have zero credibility with the court system in the future. A boat owners' lawyer will just have to ask; 'But didn't you file a quarter million dollar claim for doing nothing but taking a line?'. I'd love to see it go to trial.
Seatow stood by like a vulture. The fireboat took the risk and saved the imperiled boat by removing it from danger. Then it passed a line to the big boat (Seatow). For that, Seatow claims significant risk and a 10% reward. Right! Bastards. This one needs to be in court. They will lose the case and also have zero credibility with the court system in the future. A boat owners' lawyer will just have to ask; 'But didn't you file a quarter million dollar claim for doing nothing but taking a line?'. I'd love to see it go to trial.
More great stuff
I guess sea tow needs to make up for the operator that backed into my boat (twice) in the slip. Luckily some nice folks at the marina saw the whole thing including him hit another boat on the way out and he tried to deny it but yellow paint speaks. Cracked my gelcoat in two spots right on the curve at the water line. So I made them take it out of the water to paint and so I could look things over (in case they knocked some barnacles onto my prop). Good thing it went a couple inches under and I really couldn't see them being able to do it in the water. Funny thing is when I called to ask them how they were going to get it out of the water without a key they said "oh we'll tow it" I said nah I think I will move it for you this time.They did have no trouble fixing it though but then again maybe I will get a bill for salvage. Bob Always Something
I guess sea tow needs to make up for the operator that backed into my boat (twice) in the slip. Luckily some nice folks at the marina saw the whole thing including him hit another boat on the way out and he tried to deny it but yellow paint speaks. Cracked my gelcoat in two spots right on the curve at the water line. So I made them take it out of the water to paint and so I could look things over (in case they knocked some barnacles onto my prop). Good thing it went a couple inches under and I really couldn't see them being able to do it in the water. Funny thing is when I called to ask them how they were going to get it out of the water without a key they said "oh we'll tow it" I said nah I think I will move it for you this time.They did have no trouble fixing it though but then again maybe I will get a bill for salvage. Bob Always Something
Salvage
If it goes to trial the factors that a court considers in determining a salvage award are all of the factors described -- how mcuh danger the salvor was in, how much effort they put in, what was the role of others, etc. So, although the starting point is the value of the boat, the percentage applied might be quite small. The good thing for the rest of us to know is that there is a big difference between a tow and a salvage, and if it is a salvage, you should try hard to negotiate an agreement in advance, rather than throw yourself on the mercy of the salvor or the court. And "tying it up in the courts" costs the boat owner lot of money too, so its not necessarily a brilliant strategy.
If it goes to trial the factors that a court considers in determining a salvage award are all of the factors described -- how mcuh danger the salvor was in, how much effort they put in, what was the role of others, etc. So, although the starting point is the value of the boat, the percentage applied might be quite small. The good thing for the rest of us to know is that there is a big difference between a tow and a salvage, and if it is a salvage, you should try hard to negotiate an agreement in advance, rather than throw yourself on the mercy of the salvor or the court. And "tying it up in the courts" costs the boat owner lot of money too, so its not necessarily a brilliant strategy.
Sea Tow are nothing but....
...CROOKS!! I happen to win a membership last year. There coverage for the "Lakes Region" of New Hampshire state Lake Winnipesaukee and Lake Winnisquam. I sail on the smaller lake Winnisquam. After getting caught in a sudden squall with 40-45 knot winds, my original main was shredded. I have plenty of friends on the lake to help, but decide "to see how this Sea Tow thing works". When I contacted them, I was told "we only do Lake Winnipesaukee". I said the broucher says Lake Winnisquam too. His reply?? "I will only come to Lake Winnisquam if you pay me cash". They are nothing but low lifes and use local scum bags to come rescue you. If I had paid for that membership, his A$$ would have been hauled to court for sure!
...CROOKS!! I happen to win a membership last year. There coverage for the "Lakes Region" of New Hampshire state Lake Winnipesaukee and Lake Winnisquam. I sail on the smaller lake Winnisquam. After getting caught in a sudden squall with 40-45 knot winds, my original main was shredded. I have plenty of friends on the lake to help, but decide "to see how this Sea Tow thing works". When I contacted them, I was told "we only do Lake Winnipesaukee". I said the broucher says Lake Winnisquam too. His reply?? "I will only come to Lake Winnisquam if you pay me cash". They are nothing but low lifes and use local scum bags to come rescue you. If I had paid for that membership, his A$$ would have been hauled to court for sure!
Lyman Louis of Sea Tow's Portland is a Scumbag
he see's an expensive boat and he goes for BS 10% salvage value. @#$%$#& ridiculous. If I had service up there I would IMMEDIATELY pull my business from them (I suggest everyone up there does). Nothing wrong with him making a good profit for being in the right place at the right time. I think $1000 or two is more than fair. Heck even $5-$10k for being there, but $230,000 !?! thats nuts. I hope the boat owner with DEEP pockets does what one person suggested and keep it tied up in court for YEARS!!!....That way SeaTow in Portland would spend $20k, $30k, $40k and maybe end up with a $3000 judgement. I want SeaTow in Portland to feel some pain for their wonton greed. But more importantly for thier total disregard for a fellow boater in need and what this negative episode does to the whole boating community. It harms us all
he see's an expensive boat and he goes for BS 10% salvage value. @#$%$#& ridiculous. If I had service up there I would IMMEDIATELY pull my business from them (I suggest everyone up there does). Nothing wrong with him making a good profit for being in the right place at the right time. I think $1000 or two is more than fair. Heck even $5-$10k for being there, but $230,000 !?! thats nuts. I hope the boat owner with DEEP pockets does what one person suggested and keep it tied up in court for YEARS!!!....That way SeaTow in Portland would spend $20k, $30k, $40k and maybe end up with a $3000 judgement. I want SeaTow in Portland to feel some pain for their wonton greed. But more importantly for thier total disregard for a fellow boater in need and what this negative episode does to the whole boating community. It harms us all
These scumbags are the reason we all need to
keep our radios on and our eyes open to help each other. With any luck they'll die on the vine.
keep our radios on and our eyes open to help each other. With any luck they'll die on the vine.
They've already done it
Whatever they get out of this one, they have already lost more than that amount from the coverage on this forum. Just think of the negative publicity they have generated, ripples that will go out through us to our marina buddies. Pass it on - don't let it stop here.
Whatever they get out of this one, they have already lost more than that amount from the coverage on this forum. Just think of the negative publicity they have generated, ripples that will go out through us to our marina buddies. Pass it on - don't let it stop here.
I guess it is time for me to stand up
and roar. Sea Tow is a franchise operation. Don't condemn the company for some unscruplous operators. I have a friend that works for a local sea-tow company in the winter season and yes they do recognise the distinction between a towing and a salvage, at least in this area they make the distinction. A bass boat that has turned turtle is a salvage, but a boat out of fuel is a towing job.
and roar. Sea Tow is a franchise operation. Don't condemn the company for some unscruplous operators. I have a friend that works for a local sea-tow company in the winter season and yes they do recognise the distinction between a towing and a salvage, at least in this area they make the distinction. A bass boat that has turned turtle is a salvage, but a boat out of fuel is a towing job.
Tow vs. Salvage
Commercial towing for a fix fee is greatly less than towing for a salvage. The commercial tow operators will fight over a disabled vessel like vultures if there is a possibility that tow will be a salvage. If a boat is in peril, any non-government tow can become a salvage tow. It doesn't matter if the tow is from a private vessel, instead of a commercial tow operator; maritime salvage law applies in both cases. Last month off Pompano Beach Florida, two towboat captains got into a fight over a salvage. One towboat was from Sea Tow and the other towboat was from Boat US. The Boat US captain had a signed salvage contract with the disabled boat, but the Sea Tow captain still wanted to claim the salvage. Fair Winds, Clyde
Commercial towing for a fix fee is greatly less than towing for a salvage. The commercial tow operators will fight over a disabled vessel like vultures if there is a possibility that tow will be a salvage. If a boat is in peril, any non-government tow can become a salvage tow. It doesn't matter if the tow is from a private vessel, instead of a commercial tow operator; maritime salvage law applies in both cases. Last month off Pompano Beach Florida, two towboat captains got into a fight over a salvage. One towboat was from Sea Tow and the other towboat was from Boat US. The Boat US captain had a signed salvage contract with the disabled boat, but the Sea Tow captain still wanted to claim the salvage. Fair Winds, Clyde
The sad thing is...
We all pay for this nonsense. Every time you look at your insurance bill and ask yourself, why is this so high, you can thank the Sea Tow's of the world. Dave s/v Hakuna Matatta
We all pay for this nonsense. Every time you look at your insurance bill and ask yourself, why is this so high, you can thank the Sea Tow's of the world. Dave s/v Hakuna Matatta
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