Towing/retrieving with all wheel drive

[SamLust]

I'm looking for personal experience using an all wheel drive vehicle to tow and retrieve a small sailboat. Before you go too far take a look at the attached photo as it will answer lots of questions.

What you see there is a Diesel motorhome pulling a double deck trailer carrying a car, small sailboat (Sunbird 16 to be precise) and a motorcycle. The complete retirement package. Who says you can't take it all with you?

The Jeep Cherokee in the picture is no longer around so Im looking for an alternative. Something in the size and price range of a Rav 4, Honda CRV, A lower roof line would be better, allowing more room for the sailboat above.

I'd like specifics if possible. Car and type of all wheel, how it performed, boat, trailer, weights types of ramps encountered, problems and good stuff.

Thanks!!

 

[Mackaroni]

First of all, that is quite a setup. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like it.

I own a 16 foot Compac trailer sailer that I hauled all the way from Florida where I purchased it to Prince Edward Island and then back to Maryland. I don't know the total weight of the boat, but I am guessing somewhere around 1600+ pounds with all the gear in it. The trailer does not have trailer brakes.

I own a Kia Borrego which is an all wheel drive vehicle a little larger than the Sorrento. It has a towing capacity over 8000 ( I think it goes to 10 but can't remember) and tows it like a dream. Because the trailer doesn't have brakes, I did notice that I had to increase the stopping distance somewhat, but nothing appreciable. Just noticeable.

Launching and retrieving was fairly easy too, although I had to back the boat in the water deep enough that I usually either had to either get wet to push the boat off, or climb through the back of the SUV so that I didn't get wet. This was the most annoying part of all of it. Adding a trailer extension would have solved this. However, the actual launching and pulling out of the water was really easy with the all wheel drive, and I found myself having an easier time of it than the guys who only had pickup trucks, particularly on steep ramps.

Anyway....hope that helps.

 

[SamLust]

Rear drive pick ups can be a real pain at a ramp. Ived seen more than a few spinning a single rear wheel while the other does nothing. all it takes is a little bit of slime or sand. Most, but not all 4 wheel p/u's have a locking rear differential. My primary towing machine is a very long Chevy 4 wd diesel pickup. The ramp near my house is sand and nasty and even in 2 wd with the lock up it has no trouble.

Unfortunately I won't have that luxury with the retirement setup. Aside from a size limitation I want to keep the weight in check. The rig as in the picture runs about 9300 pounds. (The pickup itself is about 7500 pounds.) The Jeep is about 4200 of it. Less weight in the car would be better. I've done hills in NC in second gear at about 13 MPH. Not loads of fun. I was thinking Subaru Impreza because it's the smallest, lowest all wheel I've seen. Subaru says they don't even rate it for towing because it has a low capacity CVT trans. And I dislike Subarus. If Suzuki were still a factor here in The US there were a few models that would have worked, but I have no interest in buying an orphan. I've created enough headaches for myself.

Thanks for the responseThe weight to weight relationship works.

Here's to wet feet!!

 

[Rick Webb]

How About an Escape

Friend of mine just bought one he really likes it. We added a hitch to it I think he said it's good for 2,000# if he had the factory tow package I think he said 3,000#. But I may be confused with my wife's new MKX it is good for 3,500# with the tow package and was 2,000# with just an added hitch. Something like that anyway. He is one of three folks we know with the new Escape and they all really like them.

 

[chuckwayne]

how about the new Cherokee? Love ours so far, but haven't pulled the trailer yet - still snowbound.
4500 lb to capacity, all wheel drive with a real transmission, lots of torque (6 cyl) and fairly light. handles great, and comfortable

 

[Kermit]

I used a 2004 Honda Pilot to pull my 1986 H23. It worked well. But I doubt it'll pull your sailboat and diesel motorhome all at once. ;-) But seriously, there's a button you push to engage AWD when pulling the boat up the ramp. Worked a charm for me.

 

[Joe]

You don't really need a heavy set up to get the boat from the rv space to the launch area. I'd think an older Honda Accord or any compact with FWD would be more than adequate. I used my old 87 hatchback for years for that exact purpose. If your towing long distance or in the mountains... yes.. something heavier... but for a simple application like this AWD truck is overkill not to mention the weight savings.

 

[Benny17441]

Coincidentally I was in the market for a small fuel efficient crossover vehicle for the wife. I was not impressed with the towing specs of any of them until I decide to look further into the issue. I recalled seeing in Europe some of these models towing caravans (RVs) that must have weighed close to 3500 lbs. My wife liked the Hyundai Santa Fe and we decided on the 2.4 L 4 cylinder engine. The vehicle is rated in the US to tow 2000 lbs but the same vehicle in the UK is rated for the equivalent of 5200 lbs. I gather the safety regulations in the US are more stringent than in Europe. I put a Curt 2" receiver hitch on it and wired for lights. I do not intend to tow more than 1500 lbs with it but it is nice to know that I could. I gather any of the vehicles that you mentioned could do an adequate job with such a light load. The 4 wheel drive version would enhance the towing capabilities of the vehicle as the front wheel drive models tend to loose traction in wet ramps. Sorry that I cannot help you with specific model recommendations but do hope that some of this info can be of help.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

SamLust;

Consider trailering a 30 footer thru Boone NC going the backway over the hills and thru the woods of the NC/TN mountains on a curvy two narrow lane hwy. going to Watagua lake pulled by a dooley. Did that once as a dealer but never again. I hated going wide load thru NC mountains on I-40 so took the trek up I-77 uphill in VA over to I-81 too often.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

Nice Rig! totterhome has nothing on you

short wheel base should be ok for your short tows.

jeep liberty with tow kit. should do it. guessing its more of a grocery getter than tow-er

 

[Brian S]

I tow my O'day 192 with a Subaru Forester. Boat is listed at 1400# displacement. It towed my 425# 15' daysailer with no trouble like it wasn't really back there. 2011 Forester 2.5l 4 cylinder 4 speed all wheel drive is listed at either 2000# or 2400# tow capacity, depending on where you find the spec. We have a nice ramp at my lake, not too steep, not too shallow, and I have not had any problem launching or retrieving either boat. Trying to remember last time I launched the little boat on a slipperier tidal ramp. I never had any wheel slip on any ramp, going just idle speed to pull the boats out. That one time I beach launched the 15' boat, I thought I might get stuck coming out as the trailer wheels settled in the sand due to wave action before I pulled out, but it turns out I made it without needing any assist from my friend's pickup.

That Sunbird lists at 475# on Sailboatdata.com. You will have absolutely no trouble towing or retrieving with a Subaru Outback or Forester (same engine in each.)

Note that a RAV4 or CRV probably has a 1500# capacity MAX if they even list a tow capacity. If they don't list a capacity in the specs, it would be 1000#. Still doable for your boat at 1000# but I'd want a bit more headroom. Note that I am extremely nervous towing the O'day 192 with the Forester when I've towed it 15 miles from the lake to a friend's house. Around the lake ramp and parking lot no worries at all, but on the roads... I want a V6 with 4500# if I want to take her hours away to Lake George or Chesapeake, for example (which means I've only ever towed the boat around the lake and 15-20 miles away, going SLOWLY.) A V6 power plant automatically has a beefier transmission, and thus gets 4000-5000# capacity, though most are 4000-4500. The Nissan Xterra V6 gets a 5000# or 5500# capacity listing, because it's built on the Frontier truck frame, not unit-body.

If I were to get a new car today, I'd probably buy a used Toyota Highlander V6. I test drove an Xterra (Tow capacity, hurr hurr!) but it rode horribly. Like a truck

 

[SamLust]

Dave; had the rig in NC last summer. Picked up a used Yamaha SR500 from an old friend, then spent time at Robbinsville/Deals Gap Tail of the Dragon. 11 miles of mountain toad, no intersections, 318 turns. Fantastic riders road. On the trip back Nuvi sent me up I 26 throughthe tip of Tennessee. Mountains. Not much fun in a heavily loaded RV. Couldnt get up a head of steam on the downhills vause there was a turn at the bottom of each one. 25 mph up hill !!

On with the cat search.

Subaru Forester is just plain uncomfortable for me. Hated my wifes. New ones are CVT trans. Just want to leave CVT s alone. Love the idea but don't want to be their towing Guinea pig.

Pilot, Pathfinder, Xtera, santa Fe are all bigger than I want. Audi A3 sport wagon is neat but pricy and an unknown. Too many BAD experiences with ford to go there. Swore off them in 86 after a new Aerostar on which everything that could posslibl go wrong DID. Ford couldnt care less. If I were to go for that size it would be the Cherokee. all the capability I want, kind of pricy when optioned out and heavy. Trailhawk is curb weight of 4000. might live with that. New Jeep Renegade is neat, moderate weight, price is onlu a little awful, real trans, seems real capable, 2000 towing. Down side is it's a FIAT, and a first year Fiat at that. Made in italy. Same plastform as the Fiat 500X. The interiors are close to identical. Concern there is reliability. same money I can get a low mile Cherokee with all the bells. Looks like I'm heading that way. Of course, if someone pointed out a competent, light, LOW, light AWD'er with a real trans I'd be there

 

[Brian S]

My friend bought a Volvo V60. She is a compulsive researcher, and she says that Volvo guarantees all their cars can tow their rated amount up hill for like 10 miles or something like that. She wanted something with better mileage than the Ford F150 pickup, that could easily tow a double stack Hobie 16 tandem trailer at 70mph speeds to nationals in FL. I completely forget the capacity, but it's more than the Forester, possibly something like 3500#, and more than enough to pull that Sunbird. I rode in it, it's a very nice car. Unfortunately, it's way more than I can afford, new or used...

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Sam Lust;

I am a retired sailboat dealer mostly known for my experience and knowledge of the smaller boats having towed and launched boats rom 5 to 36 ft. with various types of vehicles on a lot of ramps over many years. Before I go any further, can you humor me and tell me which mfg. and model of your daysailor is and do you know the weight. That would help me before making suggestions.

 

[Brian S]

Sam Lust;

I am a retired sailboat dealer mostly known for my experience and knowledge of the smaller boats having towed and launched boats rom 5 to 36 ft. with various types of vehicles on a lot of ramps over many years. Before I go any further, can you humor me and tell me which mfg. and model of your daysailor is and do you know the weight. That would help me before making suggestions.

Crazy Dave, it's an AMF Sunbird 16. He's got a picture in the original post, up on top of that wicked double decker trailer behind the fancy motor home. He even has a motorcycle on there. I'd like to go fun hogging with SamLust!!!!

Sailboatdata lists it at 475#, and trailer is probably, what, 300#...

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

I figured that sailboat and trailer would be under 1,000 lbs. Brian but wanted to make sure. I have even seen a VW pulling a boat that size. It is not really necessary for this fellow to buy a four wheel drive for that boat. the weight is not there but some words of wisdom. First, if you buy a small truck with rear wheel drive only, put some weight over the rear axle and you should be fine. Suggest that a broom be part of the equation to sweep sand, rock and/or mud away for better tire traction on the ramp. Form there, it is his choice. Like I said, seeing a VW pull out a boat and trailer weighing in at 750 Lbs. was interesting to watch.

 

[SamLust]

Belt AND suspenders

I'm a belt AND suspenders kind of guy. A standard, open rear differential car MIGHT do it, but all it takes is ONE failure to get me going. Lock-up rear diff would help. I expect to see loads of lousy ramps and do not like being stuck or closed out because of inadequate equipment. Whatever the car is, it has to fit on the trailer with enough head space left for the boat above without hitting bridges. 13 foot 6 inches max. Yeah, I know, most of the interstate system is 14 plus, however.... Port Jervis, NY looking at a car this weekend. 13' 4" bridge and no place to turn a 68 foot long rig around!! And I know the Sunbird was at 13' 4" with the lamented Cherokee underneath.

I've seen The Sunbird at 475 and 600 pounds. Trailex aluminum trailer only a couple hundred at most. Call the CURRENT setup about 1000. Now here's the tit in the wringer: If I can get a cheap enough car that will fit the envelope (trailer, weight, height, capability) I might be able to swing a new Sage Cat 15. (Jerry Montgomery) Certainly couldn't tell you the specs on that because they have yet to build the first one yet, nor have they confirmed trailer specs. Should be sweet boat when they get it done. they're still working on molds.

Over the weekend I think i've settled in on a USED Subaru Impreza 2.5i Hatch wagon. 170HP 4 cyl, all wheel, real 4 speed auto trans, only about 3200 pounds, low enough to fit it reasonably. And not too expensive. With that car I should have a touch over 5 1/2 feet for boat and trailer above. Plus, being in the Northeast, all wheel is nice to have what with snow and all. Commuting 120 miles per day now. Did at least 12 homeward trips in 3" plus snow this year. All wheel might have made that a wee bit less painful.

Oh, and for the record, the "Fancy " motorhome is a used 2001. I'm doing as much work on it as I possibly can to be able to scratch all this together. Did brakes on it last summer. each brake shoe is about 18 pounds. front drums 80 pounds, rear drums about 120 pounds. Oil change 18 Quarts. Dessicant air dryer up where only a monkey can get it. Air filter in the middle of nowhere and about 30 pounds. And driving it is worse than herding cats.

So; who has experience with a Subaru all wheel hauling small sailboats???

 

[Brian S]

Like I said, seeing a VW pull out a boat and trailer weighing in at 750 Lbs. was interesting to watch.

Crazy Dave, a VW Beetle pulling 750 pounds of boat would be CRAZY! I know through my experience with British GP14s that guys have towed the GP14 with an original Mini. GP14 are limited to just under 300 pounds, and over in England they tend to have lighter trailers than I think we do over here.

Have you ever seen the 5th wheel VW Beetle camper? https://youtu.be/SpwH9WeVEfU

 

[Brian S]

Sam, that Impreza sounds like it has the same engine as my 2011 Forester, 2.5 liter, 170 HP, 170 ft/lbs of torque. I poked at a few car sites, and found that the 2011 Impreza matched those specs. Newer ones seem to have a 2.0 liter engine with CVT transmission. I didn't find any tow capacity numbers, so I looked at the Subaru web site for an owner's manual. Again, I did not find any tow capacity specs, or info on towing with the car. Most folks have said that if a sedan doesn't have tow specs, then it can tow up to 1000 pounds. Since my Forester has between 2000 and 2400 pounds capacity (depending on where you find the figures) and that 2011 Impreza has the same engine, you may be ok towing 1000 pounds. I did not bother to look up wheelbase figures between the Forester and the Impreza. I know for my year, the Outback had a slightly higher rating because it had a slightly longer wheelbase. So, you might compare wheelbase figures for 2011 Forester and 2011 Impreza. If the Impreza has a smaller wheelbase, then I wouldn't say it has much capacity. Given your RV rig which does most of the distance towing, I expect the Impreza could move the Sunbird around with no problem, and get it in and out of the water. If you are looking at a newer Impreza with a continuously variable transmission, I would not tow with it. You can get 1 1/4" receiver hitches for the Impreza from etrailer.com.

 

[SamLust]

Dave, having been a denizen of this site since 1997, I can't help but know who you are. You're probably the one who caused me to buy the Hunter 260. Neat boat but not right for me at the time.

Brian S, you've pretty much duplicated my research and findings on the Impreza. It appears to me to be a lower, flatter Forester. 1500 pounds would seem a good guess to me also. I would have no concerns about taking it to near 2000 pounds. You're right, i'm not likely to use the car to haul the sailboat much more than 25 to 50 miles. Throw a trans cooler on it I should be OK.

The object of all this is to get into an interesting area, park the motorhome, and get to know the local waters and back roads during the winter months. Did I mention warm climate and retirement during the winter?? That's what all this is about.

At the NY auto show recently I was told by Subaru they do not rate the Impreza 2.0 with CVT for towing because that CVT is not strong enough. The Crosstec XV or whatever it's called has a stronger CVT and so gets a rating. No more than 2000 as I recall. I'm not spending $30,000 +++ for an under powered wimp like that. 148 HP.. Fairly tall also. I think the Impreza is as close as I'm going to get. It's a shame Suzuki pulled out of the US market because they had a couple of vehicles that would have worked. But with no factory presence there's no sense in that.