Tough Times for Yacht Manufacturers?

[Rick D]

I noticed an article (see link) that Pacific Seacraft has filed for Chapter 11. Recall they make boats in the 24-44 range, advertised and thought of as "blue water" boats and construct the Saga line of boats (don't know if the companies are differenciated). Interestingly, they announced a new Perry-designed 38 in January and a 60' Crealock in design. Taken in context with Hunter shutting its UK facility and Catalina its California plant, it makes you wonder if this is just a market consolidation or if there is something larger going on. Rick D.

 

[David10790]

Sure don't see it here

Our yacht club of 120 members has 18 new boats this year - mostly 40+ feet. My unscientific observations from sailing in and around Toronto harbour the last two weekends indicates that Beneteau is outselling Catalina and Hunter combined in our area. I hear the wait times for a new Ben423 are about six to eight months.Yacht makers come and go. It is a tricky market with finicky buyers.

 

[Tim C350 April IV]

California Closure?

Rick - you mention Catalina closing a california plant? Hadn't heard anything like that. From what I understand they're still selling 'em like hotcakes....More info please?Tim BroganApril IV C350 #68Seattle

 

[Rick D]

Oops; Tim....

...I thought that was public, and now I'm not so sure. If I recall, I heard it from a guy with a supposed inside connection that they were going to be consolidating operations in FL. I just checked and there is no data base mention of it. I didn't give it a second thought since manufacturing in SoCal or LA has got to be a nightmare and property in their manufacturing area is really pricey. As close as I came was this quote "Although Catalina is in compliance with California's air-quality regulations, Douglas is concerned that anti-pollution standards are a moving target. In his view, good past performance by area manufacturers and fabricators is encouraging even more rigorous regulations for the future. Last year the Woodland Hills plant discontinued offering factory-applied antifouling paint in an effort to further reduce VOCs. The Florida plant, of course, operates in another jurisdiction. and might conceivably represent a form of manufacturing insurance in the environmental arena. Although Douglas denies this is part of Catalina's business plan, he remarks that "it's always better to have two of something." So, my bad in this regard, and please put aside what I stated as 'fact' regarding Catalina. It may be completely false. I should have made no mention of it and would not if I had recalled the source. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Also, see the link for an example of some of the challenges to manufacturing.Rick D.

 

[Dan Johnson]

Percentages...

Ten years ago when I managed a dealership an industry publication pegged the sailboat market at 11 percent of all new boats sold. A couple of years ago I noted that number had dropped to approximately 9 percent. Don't know what it is today, but would be interesting to find out.

 

[Jeff]

Catalina

Catalina has had the Woodland Hills plant on the close list for some years. They have moved the manufacture of most (if not all) of the larger boats to Fl.It makes sense, the Woodland Hills plant is some 20 miles from the ocean and separated from it by the Santa Monica Mountains. Transportation must be strange. Also, Woodland Hills is a California style mix of suburb, retail and office buildings, both small and even a couple of medium-rise towers. Sort of out of place for a manufacturer, much more a yacht manufacturer, and real estate has become a premium.On the other note, it seems that every time I'm out sailing, I see 40 sailboats and 8 power boats. When I look through the harbor all I see are masts. maybe all the power boats being sold are trailer boats sitting in driveways. But I guess the numbers don't lie, interesting topic.

 

[Phil Herring]

A wild guess

A plant closure in California would probably have more to do with state environmental regs than anything else. Are there any other boat builders still making hulls there?

 

[Rick I]

CS, Saga, Pacific Seacraft

I understand that these three companies were all under the management of the same person when they closed their doors and stopped production. Some track record!

 

[tweitz]

Market for boats

This raised a question I have always been curious about. Does anyone know any meaningful numbers on how many new boats of various sizes are sold? Its easy to find a number for all boats, but it doesn't seem very meaningful when a $10 million superyacht, a dinghy, a PWC, a Sunfish and a Swan 40 are all lumped together. I would be really curious as to how many sailboats over a certain size (25'? 30'?) are sold in the US each year.

 

[Jim]

Wow that stinks!

Pacific Seacraft are classic boats that are best in breed. The problem is people can't afford them and buy production boats.

 

[Doug13108]

There are some interesting

numbers sprinkled throughout this article:http://www.boatus.com/cruising/littlegidding/200410-14.aspThey're 3 yrs. old and second hand, but they show some interesting trends.

 

[HukilauMike]

Stats ain't cheap

Ted: I remember reading somewhere that sailboat manfucturing is really a cottage industry; that only a few thousand boats a year were made in this country. I went to the National Marine Manufacturers Association website to see if they had any stats, and they provide some older numbers for free: in 1998, there were a total of 19,400 sailboats shipped in the US. They don't break it down by size, but it stands to reason that the overwhelming majority of those boats are less than 20'. NMMA has a much more detailed abstract of 2006 data for sale, but I'm not THAT interested.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Dont have any stats, but.....

I dont have any real statistics, but if I were to bet, my money would go on the fact that sailing is a dieing sport. It wont die completely, but it sure will take a dive. Talking to old time brokers and some harbor masters, the hay days of sailing were in the 1970's to the late 1990's. Several things may account for this, one of which is $$. Some of the younger people out there today are not enjoying the economic growth that us older people went through. Another more recent event was Hurricanes Katrina and Rita which devastated the Ms., La. and N. Tx. coast. Some of these areas will not come back for a very long time. Most of the victims are trying to rebuild their lives and a boat is not on their priority list. A few years earlier Hurricane Ivan took out a good part of the Al. and western Florida marinas. Thats a very large chunk of the Gulf Coast. Then again, like most things in life, sports and pastimes are also a generational thing. Most young people today seem to be into 'extremes'. Fast cars, fast PWC', wind surfing, and a whole new set of sports that new technology brings along with it. As for the amount of new larger boats, the 40' + range, they are probably being purchased by mostly the older crowd that can afford it. Just an opinion and personal observation, no real statistics to back me up. Tony B

 

[Capt. Kermie]

Trailerables gaining in popularity

I am not sure there is any shortage of people buying boats, but I am sure there is a shift in the market for preferences. Those who are spending the big bucks are buying bigger but they are a small percentage of the market. According to the link I supplied (albeit it is somewhat dated) trends point towards the trailerable outboard powerboat market. I have seen this evidenced at this years Vancouver Int'l Boat show and the Seattle boat show in particular. It appeared to me that 90% of the boats were power boats and most were trailerable. I cannot help but sense that sailors are a dying breed. Consider the differences - sailing must be learned and takes time as well as skill & patience to learn whereas powerboating is instant gratification - jump in push the throttle and ease out onto plane, exciting & exhilarating not to mention ego/image and impressing the girls, water skiing tubing etc. Also consider that slip moorage is shrinking not growing, slips are hard to come by and when they do come they come at an added cost. Unless one has money to burn it does not make economic sense to own a slipped boat here in the PNW because of seasons. One of the most obvious growth areas small as it may be is the popular canoe and kyack market - sales are increasing here big time. Back to nature is the main calling card not to mention portability & affordability. The cost of living is going up and eating a larger portion of peoples discretionary income leaving less for recreational spending, a sign of the times.

 

[Phil Herring]

Acutally, it's the reverse this year

According to industry rumor, big boats (35' plus) are selling strong and small boats are relatively weak. However, this trend changes frequently.

 

[Gary Wyngarden]

Making Boats as a Business

It's really too bad that Pacific Seacraft is in such financial trouble. They obviously make a very nice boat. But it seems to be a risk for the boutique manufacturers of high end boats. They build a fine boat with largely manual processes. Then they have to charge an awful lot for the boat to make ends meet which really shrinks their market appeal to a very select customer. Cruising World reports this month that even the venerable Swan was in a dive(a Swan dive?, sorry couldn't resist) until it was taken over by the Italians.One of the things that impressed me about my sit down with Hunter Marine two years ago (please see attached link) was their stated focus on the 85% of the market inside the bell shaped curve. They are not out to make boats that might appeal to the customer of Pacific Seacraft or Little Harbor or Hinckley. The person who is going to sail around the Southern Ocean will probably look elsewhere. But they make a quality product at a price point that appeals to those of us in the middle market. AND they stay in business.As a Hunter owner, the fact that they have been in business a long time really appeals to me. When you make and sell a lot of boats, you learn a lot which improves the line you're making and you learn to make things more cost effectively which improves the value you deliver. Such is the strength of market share.Just my observations.Gary WyngardenS/V Wanderlust h37.5

 

[tweitz]

Market data

Pretty interesting information. I would guess that the bulk of the people who are active here have sailboats over 25 feet and the information in the prior emails suggests that that is a very small population in total. Its interesting that much of the talk on this and other sailing websites is critical of the "mass market" boat companies -- Hunter, Catalina, Beneteau -- and enthusiastic about the more expensive manufacturers and even the semi custom and custom folks. Yet the so-called mass market probably does not exist. As a Beneteau owner, I believe their current smallest model is 32 feet. While their production may seem mass market compared to a Hinckley or Sabre, the production run of any particular boat is minuscule compared to anything else one would think of as mass market. I see Beneteau did 826 million Euro in sales last year; only 11% in North America and only 58% in sail boats -- so US sales were roughly in the 60-70 million Euro range. If the average selling price was 100,000 Euro, that is around 600 boats in the entire of North America, and maybe 6000 in the world. In the world of cars, no one would think of Bentley as mass market, but they sold over 8000 cars in 2005 -- at considerable more than the price of my boat.

 

[Rick I]

PS was producing boats

not many want to pay for in 2007. They were producing essentially the same boats that they were building when I started sailing over 20 years ago. OK they introduced a couple of new models bigger than the 37 over the years but it's essentially a niche market. Narrow canoe stern boats. And it appears that they did not update their manufacturing processes sufficiently to bring down costs. There is no market for their product at their pegged price. Where can you sell a manufactured product that hasn't changed in over twenty years for three times what they cost twenty years ago? Well maybe Hinkley can pull it off but I think they're surviving on their power boats now. Many make fun of Hunter and Beneteau but they have learned to change with the times and know their market. As for the smaller manufacturers Sabre and Tartan are still afloat even though they are considerably more expensive than the big three. Maybe it's because of their design and modern manufacturing techniques. After all how many narrow, canoe sterned boats are being built nowadays?

 

[abe]

Housing market slowing down, no more refinance...

and cashing out, less disposable income...that means the next few years the boating industry will probably have problems. You are already seeing this in the auto industry (and autos are more essential than boats). It is a ripple affect...and could get alot worse if interests rates climb and housing market declines.abe

 

[Doug13108]

Ted, do you know whether

the Beneteau numbers include the Lagoon catamaran division? I'm curious because I wouldn't have thought that charter companies would account for a large percentage of larger cruising boats, but maybe it doesn't take many boats to be significant. Charter companies turn their boats over every 5 years or so, and it certainly seems that they must be the driving force behind things such as weird twin aft cabins in monohulls and the increasing popularity of 4 stateroom "French-style" catamarans since the mid 90s.