Torqeedo questions

[smokey73]

Tom J gave provided some info on his Torqeedo that brings up some other questions.

I did not realize the battery attached to he Torqueedo. Slick. I just imagined it was a separate free standing component. That's about 5 pounds more than my 2HP 2 stroke. So the motor and drive/shaft/prop weigh in at about 15 pounds. At a "cruise setting" about how long can it run? To many variables to go much beyond that question. So you can mount the motor (at 15 lbs a reasonably easy load) then add the 15 lb or so battery. I'm guessing the battery price should come down sometime. A well maintained 2 stroke should last 30 years as well as a well maintained and properly serviced 4 stroke. Just guessing the life of a battery might be 10 years (more or less). That would be 3 replacements over the 30 year life if the electronics/motor last that long. Even factoring in fuel I would guess the lifetime cost less for the 2-stroke (if its maintained properly) or 4 stroke but that is highly user dependent. Of course most of us (or maybe many of us) don't end up owning our boat for 20 years so the whole lifespan/lifetime cost may be a moot point.

It seems big advantage of the Torqeedo is its virtually silent in operation (a big plus) and doesn't require a trip to the gym every week to be able to heft the IC outboard on to the dingy. Its also much less polluting than the 2 stroke and less than the 4 stroke. How quickly can you go from discharged to enough charge to go for say 1 hour at cruise setting to get from the boat to a dock and back after you've tooled around and discharged the battery without thinking.

 

[JRT]

I don't think you will ever get 10 years out of these packs, 5 maybe if you always take them home to controlled environment. Hey I love the idea of battery power and seriously looked at several options for my O'day 25 last year, but they are really only good for a select set of requirements.

 

[smokey73]

I don't think you will ever get 10 years out of these packs, 5 maybe if you always take them home to controlled environment. Hey I love the idea of battery power and seriously looked at several options for my O'day 25 last year, but they are really only good for a select set of requirements.

I was trying to be generous in giving it a 10 year life span. At 5 years and a $600 battery pack I doubt seriously that you'd spend $600 on fuel and maintenance in 5 years unless you neglected your IC outboard. Thats 200 gallons of fuel at $3.00 a gallon for ethanal free. I use, maybe 5 gal a year on my outboard if that much. So the big advantage is weight, quiet operation and oil sheen. I'll add not having to carry gas for the outboard onboard your sailboat. Many advantages but cost isn't one of them. You are exactly correct - its a matter of application.

 

[Johann]

The batteries are LiFePo, not lead acid. I would say 10 years is pessimistic. I would guess you’d be on your 3rd or 4th dinghy before you replaced the battery.

 

[Daveinet]

If the battery is LiFePO4, 10 years is not an unreasonable expectation. That is what the Tesla is using. We got that out of a cordless drill that used LiFePO4 batteries. It is a very durable battery. There are other formulations that are getting close to the reliability of a LiFePO4, with greater storage density. You get 5+ years out of an old lead-acid.

I'm running an 86lbs thrust 24 volt trolling motor. It works great 99% of the time. However there has been twice when it was not enough for the storm that was approaching. You can't push into a 40 mph wind. If you are on a moderately sized lake, you will do OK. The thing I like most about electric is that it gives much greater control when docking. In my case, I sometimes have to wait 3 or more boats deep to pull into the launch ramp. Being able to leave the motor off, and bump when needed is very handy. Because it is just a matter of bumping the switch to run, we find we sail in much closer to shore before we bother dropping the sails and switching to motor power. Its just a much calmer experience.

 

[smokey73]

Thanks, good to know. Just guessing and being generous on 10 years but maybe that is a realistic estimate. Thank again for the info.

 

[smokey73]

Davinet - thanks for the perspective. I can easily see that so it goes in the advantage column. Probably not as important for a dingy but still good info. No "dying" at low throttle when you need it most like an IC outboard. That happened yesterday at our Yacht Club where someone was bringing in the club skiff and the outboard died just as she was coming along to the pier. Problem was that there is a very swift current at the club at max ebb and she was nearly swept down into the pilings. Started it up in a panic just in time. Give that "instant" response at big + for the electric outboard.

 

[Daveinet]

I should mention, I'm using the trolling motor for my sailboat, no dingy. Something as small as a dingy, there is not reason not to go electric.

 

[Tom J]

I should mention, I'm using the trolling motor for my sailboat, no dingy. Something as small as a dingy, there is not reason not to go electric.

The Torqeedo Travel that I use is equivalent to a 3hp motor. It is fine for a small sailboat, and is included from the factory on some boats.
I can push it hard to fight a strong current or wind, even with a fully loaded dinghy. Or I can cruise all day at partial throttle and greatly extend the range.
Having sufficient solar power on the sailboat to keep the Torqeedo charged is a big plus. I upgraded my old 135w panel to two 160w panels to keep the fridge going and keep the Torqeedo charged.

 

[Tom J]

How quickly can you go from discharged to enough charge to go for say 1 hour at cruise setting to get from the boat to a dock and back after you've tooled around and discharged the battery without thinking.

I honestly don't know. I normally don't discharge the battery much below 50%, maybe lower once or twice. Even at that, I can get several more miles of range out of the battery if I watch the battery monitor and go easy on the throttle. The GPS in the CPU keeps track of the distance you have travelled, and at what power setting, and tells you how much farther you can go at that setting. In addition, the CPU is constantly telling you the percent of charge left in the battery. I can get a couple of days of cruising around the harbor on one charge, and then recharge the battery when it is convenient. It might take 2 to 3 hours to fully charge it, so I usually charge it during a slow period during the day, or at the end of the day.
I guess to answer your question better, I could say I have gone from 50% back up to 75% with an hour of charging. As far as a cruise setting on the dinghy, I have found that 2.5 to 3 knots indicated by the GPS on the motor works best for me. It gives a good range, but doesn't feel like I am going too slow.

 

[smokey73]

Again Thanks Tom - great info to file away for later. Hope it helps others too. My question was related to what happens if you discharge it down to where it can't get you around and then the Admiral wants to go ashore for dinner. How long would you have to wait to get enough charge into it to accomodate that? Infering from your response, it seems like its not particularly long with a good charging source, which is good. I'm asking all these questions because I had to go from a 4HP Nissan 4 stroke to something lighter because it was getting more and more challenging to get it from the storage mount on the rail onto the dingy transom. I scored a great deal on a used Suzuki 2HP 2 stroke that runs like a sewing machine, although a lot noisier and wilt the typical exhaust "oil sheen" that I don't like. It seems no one else is interested in this so if you want to take this into PM space to avoid cluttering the Forum we can.

 

[TomY]

Again Thanks Tom - great info to file away for later. Hope it helps others too. My question was related to what happens if you discharge it down to where it can't get you around and then the Admiral wants to go ashore for dinner. How long would you have to wait to get enough charge into it to accomodate that? Infering from your response, it seems like its not particularly long with a good charging source, which is good. I'm asking all these questions because I had to go from a 4HP Nissan 4 stroke to something lighter because it was getting more and more challenging to get it from the storage mount on the rail onto the dingy transom. I scored a great deal on a used Suzuki 2HP 2 stroke that runs like a sewing machine, although a lot noisier and wilt the typical exhaust "oil sheen" that I don't like. It seems no one else is interested in this so if you want to take this into PM space to avoid cluttering the Forum we can.

I think this is a very interesting subject. In fact a Torqueedo thread is on CA right now and the subject crops up in other forums.

While I've seen more Torqueedos in my sailing, less noticed but perhaps showing up at dinghy docks in great numbers are trolling motors. In fact I've seen more than one trolling motor system that incorporates a small solar panel on the battery and an automatic bilge pump. Caveat: My harbors are seasonal coastal sailboats on moorings that require a dinghy to access. That dinghy will be towed (99.9% tow along the coast of Maine). I can't think of many instances where someone has to travel a long distance at high speed in a dinghy, here.

Even less noticeable but I suspect a larger movement is what you have expressed: downsizing your outboard. Face it, taking an outboard on and off a dinghy is no easy task no matter what your system. When I was younger it seemed that few people would tolerate an outboard inflatable option, that didn't plane.

Today that seems to be less important. Rowing as a means of tender propulsion has held it's own on our coast and could be on an upswing, but I can be dangerously optimistic.

 

[smokey73]

Today that seems to be less important. Rowing as a means of tender propulsion has held it's own on our coast and could be on an upswing, but I can be dangerously optimistic.

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TomY - Rowing is less of an option here unless you want a real workout (which some do be with 5-way bypass I think I'll pass on that one). I don't recall the tidal range and normal currents there in Maine. We have some pretty stiff ebbs and floods here in Beaufort SC where I normally sail so I have opt for some type of propulsion other than my arms.

 

[Parsons]

I'm also interested in replacing a small gas outboard with a Torqeedo, and am particularly interested in @smokey73 's concerns about running out of juice. My motivation is that the Admiral cannot always start a small outboard, particularly in a tippy dinghy. It's not just a convenience factor, but a safety one if only one person can operate the dinghy. The Torqeedo was a good solution to that problem, but only if it's got enough range to run a mile or so back to a dinghy dock. @Tom J - why do you only discharge to 50%? Is that based on Torqeedo guidance, or your own concerns about reserve capacity or battery maintenance?

 

[JRT]

So there is a difference between LiFePo and LiPo battery tech. I don't actually own one of these motors but the info on the web says they are LiPo batteries, which turned me off as these are just the same battery tech in cell phones. Knowing that and reading several reliability issues with the batteries as they get age made me move on for my application.

Maybe @Tom J could verify? I really like his actual use and feedback and given his C310 I can totally see the benefit to it with a dinghy.

The batteries are LiFePo, not lead acid. I would say 10 years is pessimistic. I would guess you’d be on your 3rd or 4th dinghy before you replaced the battery.

 

[smokey73]

Mainesail is up on all the battery chemistry so hopefully he'll weigh in on the difference in the techs. I'llresearch his site later and see if he had addressed the difference between a LiFePo and a LiPo.

 

[Jackdaw]

The batteries for the Traveler series are not LiFePo or LiPo. They are LiIon. Different with different pros and cons. Life expectancy should be between the other two. That being said, every single person I know that has a Traveler is on their 2nd battery.

 

[Tom J]

Today that seems to be less important. Rowing as a means of tender propulsion has held it's own on our coast and could be on an upswing, but I can be dangerously optimistic.

My Walker Bay 8 dinghy rows very well, and I actually enjoy rowing. I will often take a spin around an anchorage using the oars. But, for carrying crew or supplies to the boat and back, the Torqeedo is the way to go, since rowing just takes up too much room in my little dinghy.

 

[Tom J]

I'm also interested in replacing a small gas outboard with a Torqeedo, and am particularly interested in @smokey73 's concerns about running out of juice. My motivation is that the Admiral cannot always start a small outboard, particularly in a tippy dinghy. It's not just a convenience factor, but a safety one if only one person can operate the dinghy. The Torqeedo was a good solution to that problem, but only if it's got enough range to run a mile or so back to a dinghy dock. @Tom J - why do you only discharge to 50%? Is that based on Torqeedo guidance, or your own concerns about reserve capacity or battery maintenance?

My Admiral also had issues starting our 3hp Mercury, so that was a huge factor in us getting the Torqeedo. Turn on a switch, twist the throttle, and off you go. And you go off quickly. Torque is immediate, so it is easy to give it too much throttle at first.
The range depends on how you use it. The onboard computer tells you how many miles you have left at all times. Running the dinghy at 2.5 to 3 knots will get me many miles in range. Running it at full throttle will only get me a fraction of that.
My recharging at 50% or so is just a matter of convenience. I don't think running it to a lower charge state will hurt it, it just takes longer to fully recharge. If IRRC, the manual says you can recharge from any level of discharge.

 

[Tom J]

That being said, every single person I know that has a Traveler is on their 2nd battery.

I have had my Torqeedo for several years, and am on the original battery. Performance of the battery still seems to be very good.