84 H31 New owner and first on the agenda is stopping leaks. The only one that's got me worried is the compression post. Previous owner repaired the infamous compression post problem common to the H31, and seemed to do a decent job of it. However, it is still leaking. There is a small amount of water at the base of the post, but no rotten wood. On a calm day, can the mast be stepped while the boat is floating with enough hands? Other leaks: 1 - coming from the teak trim which runs athwartship midway back in the aft berth. 2 - Starboard side of main bulkhead dripping on the speaker Any ideas as to the source of these will be appreciated. Thanks
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Leaks
That mast is very heavy and I doubt it can me lifted without a crane. Leaks from the mast wiring tube will run through the mast beam to the starboard side. I never stopped chasing leaks and the new owner of my old Hunter is doing the same
That mast is very heavy and I doubt it can me lifted without a crane. Leaks from the mast wiring tube will run through the mast beam to the starboard side. I never stopped chasing leaks and the new owner of my old Hunter is doing the same
ditto Daryl's comment
On my 1984 H31, the leaks from the mast step went various places thoughout the boat. Get that solved first, and wait a few months, or longer. Let everything dry out, and see what still leaks. Definitely, get a crane for the mast. You can't handle it by hand.
On my 1984 H31, the leaks from the mast step went various places thoughout the boat. Get that solved first, and wait a few months, or longer. Let everything dry out, and see what still leaks. Definitely, get a crane for the mast. You can't handle it by hand.
Where does the water enter?
Does the water usually come from around the mast base and then thru the wiring conduit, or does the water enter the inside of the mast at the masthead, and then down thru the deck via the conduit? Thanks.....Gary
Does the water usually come from around the mast base and then thru the wiring conduit, or does the water enter the inside of the mast at the masthead, and then down thru the deck via the conduit? Thanks.....Gary
Typically from the mast head.
Gary: Typically the leak is coming from the mast head. Rain water is entering the mast and running down. There is a tube that should be above the deck with a drip loop. Then the entire thing should be sealed with silicone or some other sealant of your choice. There is no sun, so that is not a problem when choosing a sealant. Under no circumstances should you consider lifting this rig without a crane. You may save a couple of hundred dollar and spend several thousand with a mistake. There were no speakers on this boat when new. I assume that you are speaking of the bulkhead that seperates the head from the main salon. This is an indication that the mast is still leaking. The travels along the crossmember that supports the mast. The other leak is probably not associated with the compression post. I would guess that you have had a LOT of rain and it is leaking in from the companionway. Do you have a cover for the companionway? If not, I would suggest that you get one. You want to also be sure that the track for the companionway hatch is clean and clear of dirt and debris. If you boat is bow heavy the water will flow forward and drip on the cabinets behind the dining settee.
Gary: Typically the leak is coming from the mast head. Rain water is entering the mast and running down. There is a tube that should be above the deck with a drip loop. Then the entire thing should be sealed with silicone or some other sealant of your choice. There is no sun, so that is not a problem when choosing a sealant. Under no circumstances should you consider lifting this rig without a crane. You may save a couple of hundred dollar and spend several thousand with a mistake. There were no speakers on this boat when new. I assume that you are speaking of the bulkhead that seperates the head from the main salon. This is an indication that the mast is still leaking. The travels along the crossmember that supports the mast. The other leak is probably not associated with the compression post. I would guess that you have had a LOT of rain and it is leaking in from the companionway. Do you have a cover for the companionway? If not, I would suggest that you get one. You want to also be sure that the track for the companionway hatch is clean and clear of dirt and debris. If you boat is bow heavy the water will flow forward and drip on the cabinets behind the dining settee.
That helps....
Yes, I'm convinced that a crane is necessary. Now, the leaks......I wish there was a drawing which shows the mast base/deck connection, so as to know exactly what to expect when I lift the mast. Is there sufficient slack in the wires so as to lift the mast without breaking the wires? Anything I need to know beforehand? What sealant would you guys recommend? Thanks much.....Gary
Yes, I'm convinced that a crane is necessary. Now, the leaks......I wish there was a drawing which shows the mast base/deck connection, so as to know exactly what to expect when I lift the mast. Is there sufficient slack in the wires so as to lift the mast without breaking the wires? Anything I need to know beforehand? What sealant would you guys recommend? Thanks much.....Gary
Don't need a drawing...
I was very nervous too first time I had mine pulled. There is really thing there except the wires, which may/may not have a connector. And, if there is one, chances are it's corroded and won't separate anyway. You will probably have to cut it/them off. A good marina does this all the time, on bigger/fancier boats too, so just let them handle it. They will lift the mast a little, check out the wiring, do what's required and lay the mast down on the ground/rack. It's very simple. Whatever does connect the wires under the mast, replace it while you've got the mast down. Check everything with voltmeters, confirm conductivity. Test all your lights before pulling the mast (steaming, anchor, etc.) Replace all bulbs (even those that burn), pull and clean/replace the connectors to each fixture up there. Stongly consider replacing the fixtures themsevles, they are 20 years old and are much, much harder to replace when you are hanging from the mast in the air. Relax and enjoy the experience. You're paying for it either way.
I was very nervous too first time I had mine pulled. There is really thing there except the wires, which may/may not have a connector. And, if there is one, chances are it's corroded and won't separate anyway. You will probably have to cut it/them off. A good marina does this all the time, on bigger/fancier boats too, so just let them handle it. They will lift the mast a little, check out the wiring, do what's required and lay the mast down on the ground/rack. It's very simple. Whatever does connect the wires under the mast, replace it while you've got the mast down. Check everything with voltmeters, confirm conductivity. Test all your lights before pulling the mast (steaming, anchor, etc.) Replace all bulbs (even those that burn), pull and clean/replace the connectors to each fixture up there. Stongly consider replacing the fixtures themsevles, they are 20 years old and are much, much harder to replace when you are hanging from the mast in the air. Relax and enjoy the experience. You're paying for it either way.
Thanks Don
Infamiliarity breeds fear....and I'm proof of this. Thanks for the info, I do feel more confident now.....Gary
Infamiliarity breeds fear....and I'm proof of this. Thanks for the info, I do feel more confident now.....Gary
Once more question please....
I mentioned my leaking problem to a friend who has sailed his whole life and very adept with all aspects of sailboat maintenance. Please don't misunderstand though.....you guys are the Hunter experts. Now....He was shocked to hear that I was considering removing my mast to repair a leak. He said that almost all mast leaks are around the tabernacle, not at the masthead, and there are many steps to take before the expense and trouble of mast removal. He found it very unlikely that water could enter at the masthead. He suggested a mast boot, or at least use silicone around the tabernacle first, then go from there. If it's leaking at the masthead, does the water come in around the shieves, or around fittings, or where? I know some condensation is expected, but I just can't imagine exactly where the masthead is allowing water to come in. Thanks
I mentioned my leaking problem to a friend who has sailed his whole life and very adept with all aspects of sailboat maintenance. Please don't misunderstand though.....you guys are the Hunter experts. Now....He was shocked to hear that I was considering removing my mast to repair a leak. He said that almost all mast leaks are around the tabernacle, not at the masthead, and there are many steps to take before the expense and trouble of mast removal. He found it very unlikely that water could enter at the masthead. He suggested a mast boot, or at least use silicone around the tabernacle first, then go from there. If it's leaking at the masthead, does the water come in around the shieves, or around fittings, or where? I know some condensation is expected, but I just can't imagine exactly where the masthead is allowing water to come in. Thanks
Gary...
You're overthinking this and getting too much advice. It's a common situation because advice at a marina is the one thing that is free and is freely given. And here's another one. IMHO, here are two issues/solutions here: You can either seal the boat, seal the mast, or both. Read on. 1. On the 31, if you've got water coming from the mast area into the cabin, the only way to seal the cabin it is to pull the mast and reseal the 2" pvc tube under the mast that houses the wires running into the cabin top. It's as simple as that. No amount of sealing outside the mast (mast boot, silicon, etc.) is going to stop that leak into the cabin for the long term and prevent damage to the boat itself. After this fix, if water is still coming down the mast, it's not coming into the boat. 2. As for sealing the mast itself, I think all masts get rain water inside of them, the issue is whether it drains outside on the deck or inside in the cabin. You might could go up the mast and seal any inlets you find and might stop water leaking into the cabin. But that could be the proverbial needle in a haystack. For example, my current 37.5 mast was leaking into the cabin and I could see the water dripping from the wire going up to the anchor light. (Different from the 31, you can access the wires, etc. under the mast from inside the cabin and I could see the water dripping down.) I went up the mast, sealed around the light itself at the masthead and that has stopped the leak. Obviously, I've got to pull the mast and reseal things someday, but this was a temporary fix. I was lucky. Whether you could ever find the actual area the water enters the mast is another issue. And, there might be many inlets for water. You could never seal them all. Like me, others here have had lots of experience with the 31's and this leak. I've never seen another solution except to pull the mast and seal that pipe. As the Nike ads say, JUST DO IT.
You're overthinking this and getting too much advice. It's a common situation because advice at a marina is the one thing that is free and is freely given. And here's another one. IMHO, here are two issues/solutions here: You can either seal the boat, seal the mast, or both. Read on. 1. On the 31, if you've got water coming from the mast area into the cabin, the only way to seal the cabin it is to pull the mast and reseal the 2" pvc tube under the mast that houses the wires running into the cabin top. It's as simple as that. No amount of sealing outside the mast (mast boot, silicon, etc.) is going to stop that leak into the cabin for the long term and prevent damage to the boat itself. After this fix, if water is still coming down the mast, it's not coming into the boat. 2. As for sealing the mast itself, I think all masts get rain water inside of them, the issue is whether it drains outside on the deck or inside in the cabin. You might could go up the mast and seal any inlets you find and might stop water leaking into the cabin. But that could be the proverbial needle in a haystack. For example, my current 37.5 mast was leaking into the cabin and I could see the water dripping from the wire going up to the anchor light. (Different from the 31, you can access the wires, etc. under the mast from inside the cabin and I could see the water dripping down.) I went up the mast, sealed around the light itself at the masthead and that has stopped the leak. Obviously, I've got to pull the mast and reseal things someday, but this was a temporary fix. I was lucky. Whether you could ever find the actual area the water enters the mast is another issue. And, there might be many inlets for water. You could never seal them all. Like me, others here have had lots of experience with the 31's and this leak. I've never seen another solution except to pull the mast and seal that pipe. As the Nike ads say, JUST DO IT.
Thanks again Don....
for the comprehensive posts. I am surprised that the PVC nipple is 2" PVC, since there are only 3-4 small wires. I guess the connector seals up the huge air space. I just want a detailed picture in my mind before I start this project. I assume that the "loop" in the flexible conduit containing the wires has a hole at the lowest point to drain any water that makes it in there. Then that water drains under the tabernacle, and out on the deck. Hense, the tabernacle should not be sealed to the deck. Am I correct? Otherwise, the water would begin to "fill" inside the mast and "overflow" over the tabernacle/mast connection. This also gives rise to the need for the top of the PVC conduit being at a higher elevation than the highest point of the tabernacle. I have called Hunter several times today to get there take on this issue, but no luck. I really appreciate the time you have spent explaining this to me.....Gary
for the comprehensive posts. I am surprised that the PVC nipple is 2" PVC, since there are only 3-4 small wires. I guess the connector seals up the huge air space. I just want a detailed picture in my mind before I start this project. I assume that the "loop" in the flexible conduit containing the wires has a hole at the lowest point to drain any water that makes it in there. Then that water drains under the tabernacle, and out on the deck. Hense, the tabernacle should not be sealed to the deck. Am I correct? Otherwise, the water would begin to "fill" inside the mast and "overflow" over the tabernacle/mast connection. This also gives rise to the need for the top of the PVC conduit being at a higher elevation than the highest point of the tabernacle. I have called Hunter several times today to get there take on this issue, but no luck. I really appreciate the time you have spent explaining this to me.....Gary
Caulk the tabernacle too.
Gary: There are drain holes in the tabernacle and other places for the water to exit. I would suggest that you do a good job of caulking the tabernacle and the pipe. The pipe can also be a little taller too. Be sure to fill up the pipe with caulking too. You may want to mound up the caulking so it slopes away from the pipe. I just had mine resealed after having the compression post replaced several years ago. I do think that the water is coming in from the mast head. Our friends with a Catalina 34 with a keel stepped mast always had water in their bilge during the rainy season. When you make a drip loop
Gary: There are drain holes in the tabernacle and other places for the water to exit. I would suggest that you do a good job of caulking the tabernacle and the pipe. The pipe can also be a little taller too. Be sure to fill up the pipe with caulking too. You may want to mound up the caulking so it slopes away from the pipe. I just had mine resealed after having the compression post replaced several years ago. I do think that the water is coming in from the mast head. Our friends with a Catalina 34 with a keel stepped mast always had water in their bilge during the rainy season. When you make a drip loop
Not 2 diameter...
it's about a 1" dia PVC tube, probably 2" long, sticks up above the cabin roof about 1". At least that's what was on my '84. You are going to be floored when you see how simple this setup really is.
it's about a 1" dia PVC tube, probably 2" long, sticks up above the cabin roof about 1". At least that's what was on my '84. You are going to be floored when you see how simple this setup really is.
Yep, simple
As others have stated: Quit over thinking this job. All you've got to do is get the mast out of the way. If your yard needs to haul the boat, so be it. Take the time to re-wire. One other thing; nomenclature. A tabernacle is a 'pulpit' around the base of the mast. In other words, it's a leaning rail for the crew working at the mast. What we are referring to, as needing sealing to stop the leak, is the mast 'step' aka 'shoe', aka 'base', aka 'flinky-thingy'. And that wire chase pipe on the H34 is 3/4" in diameter. Probably the same on a 31. And while you're at this job, don't forget to install an inspection/access cover. They should have been standard equipment. Pictures of mine are on my web site; photos #87 and #97. Have fun.
As others have stated: Quit over thinking this job. All you've got to do is get the mast out of the way. If your yard needs to haul the boat, so be it. Take the time to re-wire. One other thing; nomenclature. A tabernacle is a 'pulpit' around the base of the mast. In other words, it's a leaning rail for the crew working at the mast. What we are referring to, as needing sealing to stop the leak, is the mast 'step' aka 'shoe', aka 'base', aka 'flinky-thingy'. And that wire chase pipe on the H34 is 3/4" in diameter. Probably the same on a 31. And while you're at this job, don't forget to install an inspection/access cover. They should have been standard equipment. Pictures of mine are on my web site; photos #87 and #97. Have fun.
Now that's a great idea Fred....
An inspection plate. Wish Hunter would have thought of that. What are the approximate dimensions of your plate? Your sure this doesn't compromise the structure of the mast? This will definately be done when the time comes. I've seen your site before, but never realized that there were more pages. Great job documenting your project and letting others learn from it. Thanks for setting me straight on the terminology too. I've been so reluctant to haul my boat for this since I just hauled it ~3 weeks ago for a bottom job....sheesh!
An inspection plate. Wish Hunter would have thought of that. What are the approximate dimensions of your plate? Your sure this doesn't compromise the structure of the mast? This will definately be done when the time comes. I've seen your site before, but never realized that there were more pages. Great job documenting your project and letting others learn from it. Thanks for setting me straight on the terminology too. I've been so reluctant to haul my boat for this since I just hauled it ~3 weeks ago for a bottom job....sheesh!
Thanks Gary, glad to help. That plate came from
Rig rite. They only sell one size that I've seen. The hole needed is insignificant, kind of like those round lightning holes in race car frames.
Rig rite. They only sell one size that I've seen. The hole needed is insignificant, kind of like those round lightning holes in race car frames.
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