Topping Lift Questions

[Jerry Zitterkopf]

I recently purchased a 2009 Macgregor 26 M. As my bio suggests, though an older guy, I'm new to sailing so please forgive my rank amateur question(s). Does the topping lift on most Mac 24s consist of a single line secured to a steel pad eye more or less permanently fixed on the left side near the top of the mast that extends down to a pad eye at the distal end of the boom on the left side using a snap hook or some other type of shackle?
Has anyone bolted some type of "hold" on the very back of the boom to attach the snap hook/lift line. It just seems it would be a little cleaner. My boom has only one pad eye on one side and a cleat on the other which I presume is mainly for the out-haul. It looks like the out-haul is fastened to the same pad eye that the topping lift would be fastened to.
Finally, I have seen it suggested that the top 2-3 feet of the topping lift be a shock cord. Is that something Macgregor owners are doing or would suggest.
Thanks
Z

 

[Joe]

Have you looked at an owner's manual? It appears the eyestrap/cleat arrangement on the boom end is not only for an outhaul..... but is used for a reefing line also. See pages 16 and 17 ...........Uh.... no comment. You can disconnect the topping lift once you hoist the sail... the snap hook makes it easy to do. You need it to hold up the boom when you're taking down the mainsail.... if opposed by the mainsheet you can keep it to keep the boom out of the way when not in use.

 

[Jerry Zitterkopf]

Thanks Joe,
I do have this manual as a PDF and printed out. I cannot find anything on page 16 or 17 regarding a topping lift. I have read through the manual a couple of times and unless I'm missing something there is nothing there said about a topping lift. That said, you confirmed what I was thinking about attachment points. I guess the shock cord idea would be nice if you leave the topping lift attached and use a Vang. It would allow the boom to stretch downward a bit without releasing the topping lift from the boom. Since it (topping lift line) runs more or less down the leach of the sail it would seem that it would not create much aerodynamic disruption so probably could be left attached which just saves having to cleat it at the mast. By the way there is a typo in my post. My boat is a Mac 26 M.

 

[justsomeguy]

Dunno how similar your boom is to mine, but in the boom's bolt rope slot, there's room for a pad eye with the aft end bent down to allow it to be anchored by the end cap's top fastener.

 

[jssailem]

Not sure I'd use a bunge. They do not last long in the open air. The stretch, rot, and degrade until they become dangerous. Maybe a nylon line. It will stretch up to 20%. Then I use a polyester braid - minimal stretch. Want the boom at the level required.

Good luck with your project.

 

[Jerry Zitterkopf]

I think my boom is similar in overall shape. Let's see if I understand what you are doing. You start the line with a bowline at the pin shackle at the front of the pulley. From there the line runs up to a pulley at the top of the mast. From there the line returns to the pulley attached to the pad eye installed in the boom slot. From there the line is secured forward to a cleat on the port side of the mast. Is this correct? Do you run a Vang? What is the advantage of this setup (assuming I have the correct interpretation). Please understand I'm not trying to be a smart a.. I'm just trying to understand and learn. If my wife spots those lavender lines, I'm in big trouble What do you do for an out-haul? At the advice of Blue Water Yacht I have installed a 90o twisted pin shackle near the very front of the boom (the U spans the slot) to which the first eyelet is secured (see attached image). That negates the need for the U shaped bracket that normally sits on top of the goose neck where that same eyelet is normally secured. (I'm told that attaching to the goose neck is actually not proper rigging). At any rate, I'm thinking I might remove that bracket and install it on the end plate of the boom. The 1/4? bolt through that bracket would provide a place to secure a spring loaded snap hook attached to the line coming down from the mast. I talked about using a shock cord up top to allow my Vang to function as needed while leaving the topping lift in place at all times. The attached image shows the twisted pin shackle but because it is not needed the U shaped bracket has been removed. (this image is courtesy of BWY like but not my boom). This boom is equipped with jiffy reefing capability which I don't have but think would be a VERY good idea.

 

[Jerry Zitterkopf]

Dunno how similar your boom is to mine, but in the boom's bolt rope slot, there's room for a pad eye with the aft end bent down to allow it to be anchored by the end cap's top fastener.

View attachment 127598

Good points for sure. I'm a kayak builder temporarily retired or preoccupied with sailing. I have a lot of shock cord laying around. Being a trailer sailor to fresh water lakes, a periodic replacement of that cord would be easy and affordable enough. My concern was how I might determine how heavy that shock cord would have to be in order for it not to be stretched to its limit from the shear weight of the boom and sail. Your idea regarding the nylon has a lot of merit. It seems that some of the guys may be running a line boom top to boom via pulleys. Thats 60 plus foot of line but you have infinite ability to adjust the boom height. I'm thinkin that might be overkill. One line from a pad eye topside to a spring loaded snap attached to the end of the boom at the appropriate height seems like the simplest idea and if you decided to release it you could always cleat it on the mast or with a light piece of rope string it on back to a seat rail on the quarter deck. I have a US Sailing Certificate Basic Keel Boat and about 20 hours of sailing on the water so my ideas may be laughable. Lots of ambition, very little on boat experience.

 

[justsomeguy]

Let's see if I understand what you are doing. You start the line with a bowline at the pin shackle at the front of the pulley. From there the line runs up to a pulley at the top of the mast. From there the line returns to the pulley attached to the pad eye installed in the boom slot. From there the line is secured forward to a cleat on the port side of the mast. Is this correct?

Not quite. The visible line starts at the bowline knot on the pin shackle, then goes up to a small pulley about 3 feet higher than the boom from level.
The small pulley is hung from a line off the top of the mast. After passing through the small pulley, the visible line then goes down through the boom-mounted block (with the pin shackle, called a becket), then travels forward to either be cleated off mid-boom, or ran through more pulleys back to the cabin top.

Do you run a Vang?

Yes.

If my wife spots those lavender lines, I'm in big trouble

That Dyneema more than makes up for its color.

What do you do for an out-haul?

At the advice of Blue Water Yacht I have installed a 90o twisted pin shackle near the very front of the boom (the U spans the slot) to which the first eyelet is secured (see attached image).

Umm, what image?

I talked about using a shock cord up top to allow my Vang to function as needed while leaving the topping lift in place at all times.

Will the topping lift then be adjustable, or not? At anchor or the docks, I can raise my boom fairly far above the cockpit for headroom. And during light wind sailing, my lift can help shape the sail.
What local lakes do you sail? Mead? Havasu? I used to go to Roosevelt or Pleasant, but then discovered the Sea of Cortez.

 

[Joe]

I think you're misunderstanding the bungee cord advice. It would be more logical to attach a piece or bungee to a nearby lifeline stanchion or other fixed point out of the way.. and clip the topping lift to it.... after you've unclipped if from the boom. I can't imagine having the topping lift attached to the boom with a bungee... makes it unusable.

 

[Jerry Zitterkopf]

The post beginning with, "Good points for sure..." was meant as a response to JSSAILEM. I goofed. Sorry.

Not sure I'd use a bunge. They do not last long in the open air. The stretch, rot, and degrade until they become dangerous. Maybe a nylon line. It will stretch up to 20%. Then I use a polyester braid - minimal stretch. Want the boom at the level required.

Good luck with your project.

Good points for sure. I'm a kayak builder temporarily retired or preoccupied with sailing. I have a lot of shock cord laying around. Being a trailer sailor to fresh water lakes, a periodic replacement of that cord would be easy and affordable enough. My concern was how I might determine how heavy that shock cord would have to be in order for it not to be stretched to its limit from the shear weight of the boom and sail. Your idea regarding the nylon has a lot of merit. It seems that some of the guys may be running a line boom top to boom via pulleys. Thats 60 plus foot of line but you have infinite ability to adjust the boom height. I'm thinkin that might be overkill. One line from a pad eye topside to a spring loaded snap attached to the end of the boom at the appropriate height seems like the simplest idea and if you decided to release it you could always cleat it on the mast or with a light piece of rope string it on back to a seat rail on the quarter deck. I have a US Sailing Certificate Basic Keel Boat and about 20 hours of sailing on the water so my ideas may be laughable. Lots of ambition, very little on boat experience.

I think you're misunderstanding the bungee cord advice. It would be more logical to attach a piece or bungee to a nearby lifeline stanchion or other fixed point out of the way.. and clip the topping lift to it.... after you've unclipped if from the boom. I can't imagine having the topping lift attached to the boom with a bungee... makes it unusable.

I think you are right Joe. I misunderstood the whole concept. Thanks.

 

[Jerry Zitterkopf]

Not quite. The visible line starts at the bowline knot on the pin shackle, then goes up to a small pulley about 3 feet higher than the boom from level.
The small pulley is hung from a line off the top of the mast. After passing through the small pulley, the visible line then goes down through the boom-mounted block (with the pin shackle, called a becket), then travels forward to either be cleated off mid-boom, or ran through more pulleys back to the cabin top.
I get it. You can adjust boom height without running 30 foot of line up and back down. Why back to the cabin top. Seems like it would place the point of adjustment further away. What am I missing?

Yes.

That Dyneema more than makes up for its color.
Hey I like lavender. I don't know what Dyneema is but I'll take your word for its innate value to a seaman.

View attachment 127600

Umm, what image?

Will the topping lift then be adjustable, or not? At anchor or the docks, I can raise my boom fairly far above the cockpit for headroom. And during light wind sailing, my lift can help shape the sail.
What local lakes do you sail? Mead? Havasu? I used to go to Roosevelt or Pleasant, but then discovered the Sea of Cortez.

So far I've sailed Havasu only and then only in my Hobie Tandem Island. I did take the Mac out late last spring but there was a GIANT boat show/race thing going on called "Desert Storm". It was a nightmare and we were on the water just long enough to figure out we needed to get off the water. Since then it has been 110-115 degrees every day so I have hunkered down waiting for this fall to come and it is nearly here. I will likely sail Havasu and Mohave this fall. They say the ramp down to Mead is really bad and requires a four wheel drive which I have, but I think the smaller lakes might be better for me to start with.

I did have an image attached and I have attached another I do not know if I'm doing it right. It is there when I hit post. Also, I have tried to reply to your various comments posted individually but I am not sure that you will see them. This all gets a little confusing at some point.

 

[Jerry Zitterkopf]

So far I've sailed Havasu only and then only in my Hobie Tandem Island. I did take the Mac out late last spring but there was a GIANT boat show/race thing going on called "Desert Storm". It was a nightmare and we were on the water just long enough to figure out we needed to get off the water. Since then it has been 110-115 degrees every day so I have hunkered down waiting for this fall to come and it is nearly here. I will likely sail Havasu and Mohave this fall. They say the ramp down to Mead is really bad and requires a four wheel drive which I have, but I think the smaller lakes might be better for me to start with.

I did have an image attached and I have attached another I do not know if I'm doing it right. It is there when I hit post. Also, I have tried to reply to your various comments posted individually but I am not sure that you will see them. This all gets a little confusing at some point.

Justsomeguy,
It looks like my image attached the second time. It is a thumbnail that you can click on to enlarge. Maybe you can tell me how to drop and image in text. My response to some of your comments are there but within your original quote. So you have to expand your original quote in my reply to see the comments. I'll refrain from doing that again.

 

[justsomeguy]

I did have an image attached and I have attached another I do not know if I'm doing it right.

Well, this one you did right.
But I'm left to wonder why you need the twisted shackle, when you could just install the clevis through the tack itself on the boom.

 

[justsomeguy]

Maybe you can tell me how to drop and image in text. My response to some of your comments are there but within your original quote. So you have to expand your original quote in my reply to see the comments. I'll refrain from doing that again.

Why back to the cabin top. Seems like it would place the point of adjustment further away. What am I missing?

Looks like you're getting the hang of pictures.

Sometimes you need to adjust the lift while the boom is at 90 degrees to the boat, such as when heaving to for reefing. That way I don't have to leave the cockpit.

 

[Jerry Zitterkopf]

Well, this one you did right.
But I'm left to wonder why you need the twisted shackle, when you could just install the clevis through the tack itself on the boom.

View attachment 127638

Now that is a good question!! I can't imagine that the stretch down to the clevis pin would have any disadvantage. It might be that this arrangement can withstand more uploading distributing the load two places near each side of the groove or maybe the real advantage lies in the fact that somebody got to sell some wide-eyed newbie a relatively expensive twisted shackle. Kind of cool looking though. Not everyone just happens to have one of these by golly.

 

[Jerry Zitterkopf]

I took another look at that arrangement and the "load" idea doesn't make any sense either. The loading would be the same.