Topping Lift AND Rigid Vang?
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I don't have a topping lift but always take my halyard back and tension it enough to take the weight of the boom off the vang. Saves wear and tear on it.
AFAIK, many of the rigid vangs say that you're supposed to support the weight of the boom with the topping lift when at the dock or anchored...
Take the topping lift off. That's one of the reasons why you installed the rigid vang in the first place.
If your rigid vang happens to be a Garhauer and especially if you have their upgraded internal springs, which look like springs from a 1955 Chevy P/U (well not exactly), then you don't need the topping lift. Even the standard springs are more than adequate to support the boom.
Many sailors think that the topping lift is a sail trim control but it isn't. Its only purpose is to hold up the boom when the mainsail is flaked. I have to take part of that back because there is a small instance where you can cheat with the topping lift and that is in very light air. If you use the topping lift to lift the boom about 10 degrees above horizontal you will induce a little bit of power into the sail.
If your rigid vang is installed properly you already have the 10 degrees built into the installation.
There are 4 elements to sail trim and they are draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of attack. How many sailors can tell me which elements you are adjusting when you use the boom vang?
Many sailors think that the topping lift is a sail trim control but it isn't. Its only purpose is to hold up the boom when the mainsail is flaked. I have to take part of that back because there is a small instance where you can cheat with the topping lift and that is in very light air. If you use the topping lift to lift the boom about 10 degrees above horizontal you will induce a little bit of power into the sail.
If your rigid vang is installed properly you already have the 10 degrees built into the installation.
There are 4 elements to sail trim and they are draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of attack. How many sailors can tell me which elements you are adjusting when you use the boom vang?
For boats equipped w/ in-mast furling mainsails, the topping list is very helpful to have even with a rigid vang.
Sailndive
Sailndive
I have both because I have dutchman furling. But once the sail goes up we slack off the dutchman a bit so it does not interfere with the leech.
Don - would that be vang to reduce twist? In my dinghy we used to vang to flatten the sail (reducing draft) but that was because the mast bend had an large impact on a flexible spar. Cuningham to move draft forward, outhaul to reduce draft depth. Vang (off the wind) or maninsheet+traveler (on the wind) to reduce twist. Traveler adjustment for angle of attach (on the window) and mainsheet for angle of attach off the wind. Right?
Don - would that be vang to reduce twist? In my dinghy we used to vang to flatten the sail (reducing draft) but that was because the mast bend had an large impact on a flexible spar. Cuningham to move draft forward, outhaul to reduce draft depth. Vang (off the wind) or maninsheet+traveler (on the wind) to reduce twist. Traveler adjustment for angle of attach (on the window) and mainsheet for angle of attach off the wind. Right?
One point to make... keep the topping lift, even if you don't use it...it often can make a good spare halyard for the mainsail or be used for supporting the boom to recover a MOB.
Topping lifts can be a nuisance. Especially with large roach mains they hang up on battens at inevitably the wrong time. With my rigid vang I've used a backstay (shroud) cleat with a short section of line and a snap hook. I unsnap the hook from the backstay, snap on end of the boom and lower the main. You can harden up mainsheet and boom won't go anywhere. Works great.
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Taylor: Yes, you are right. The primary adjustment role of the boom vang is to adjust twist. The secondary role of the boom vang is to adjust the draft position. Same with the outhaul. Its primary role is to adjust draft depth but at the same time your adjusting the belly your also moving the draft position. The point is that a mate has to know what controls adjust draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of attack. The reason is that a skipper may think he adjusting one thing only to have the action he wanted cancelled out by something else.
Don - totally disagree with your statement on sail trim
Frankly, I don't understand your position that it isn't.
I've often raced in light air and the topping lift is CRUCIAL to get that little bit of extra speed and, by the way, I don't call it "cheating", just smart trimming.
The topping lift most certainly is a tool that can be used for sail trim.
Frankly, I don't understand your position that it isn't.
I've often raced in light air and the topping lift is CRUCIAL to get that little bit of extra speed and, by the way, I don't call it "cheating", just smart trimming.
Perhaps another way to say it would be
that the springs on rigid vangs are usually enough to raise the boom similar, if not identical, to the use of a topping lift in light air. Reading comprehension issue solved.
that the springs on rigid vangs are usually enough to raise the boom similar, if not identical, to the use of a topping lift in light air. Reading comprehension issue solved.
Ross - not sure what you mean by "that"
You wrote:
And the answer is "no", I don't have a reading comprehension problem.
For what it's worth, Don has stated before - that the topping lift is NOT for sail trim. This time, however, he couched it by saying in a "small instance". By saying "small instance", isn't that admitting that it can be used for sail trim?
One should know that not all boats have rigid vangs, so if the boat doesn't have a rigid vang there really isn't any other choice. Repeat: there is NO OTHER CHOICE. The topping lift (if the boat has one) is the only other thing available and that is with the assumption the boat has one. Consequently, a smart sailor will use the topping lift for sail trim.
Don makes the statement " I have to take part of that back because there is a small instance where you can cheat with the topping lift and that is in very light air".
SMALL INSTANCE??? Heck, in Puget Sound that is actually a LARGE instance! There is a lot of light air here and sometimes, er, make that often, in "races", and I'll use that term lightly, how well you place will hinge on how well you can sail the boat in one to two knot range.
Because of strong currents and light winds, there have actually been instances when races won by anchoring!
Bottom line: Yes, the topping lift is a good sail trim device.
You wrote:
Guess I don't know what "that" is.
And the answer is "no", I don't have a reading comprehension problem.
For what it's worth, Don has stated before - that the topping lift is NOT for sail trim. This time, however, he couched it by saying in a "small instance". By saying "small instance", isn't that admitting that it can be used for sail trim?
One should know that not all boats have rigid vangs, so if the boat doesn't have a rigid vang there really isn't any other choice. Repeat: there is NO OTHER CHOICE. The topping lift (if the boat has one) is the only other thing available and that is with the assumption the boat has one. Consequently, a smart sailor will use the topping lift for sail trim.
Don makes the statement " I have to take part of that back because there is a small instance where you can cheat with the topping lift and that is in very light air".
SMALL INSTANCE??? Heck, in Puget Sound that is actually a LARGE instance! There is a lot of light air here and sometimes, er, make that often, in "races", and I'll use that term lightly, how well you place will hinge on how well you can sail the boat in one to two knot range.
Because of strong currents and light winds, there have actually been instances when races won by anchoring!
Bottom line: Yes, the topping lift is a good sail trim device.
An adjustable topping lift has more uses than just holding the boom up. If you want to take it off, you can. It's your call.
I was thinking more along the lines of "should I use the topping lift while docked or anchored for more than a few hours" (I have the Garhauer RV20) A few have answered to the affimative so I guess I'll come up with a way to keep it out of the way until needed at the dock and on the hook. I was hoping to not need that puppy again . . . . .
BTW, I will consider using the main halyard instead to support the boom. Sounds like a viable option (if it is long enough).
BTW, I will consider using the main halyard instead to support the boom. Sounds like a viable option (if it is long enough).
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