My boat has way too much weather helm and I am sure it is because of excessive mast rake (the mast looks like a question mark!). I shortened the forestay a few inches an tightened it as much as I could an nothing. Even with the lower shrouds completely loose the mast looks bent backwards. I wanted to loosen up the higher cables in the mast rig but these are of a fixed length. I am scared to overcut the forestay. Is there anything else I should try?
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Carl
i have a 23.5
my upper shrouds are not of a fixed length well they are but they have turnbuckles from what you re saying sounds like your headstay is way to tight causing the curve in your mast perhaps your turnbuckles are missing on the uppers ?
my upper shrouds are not of a fixed length well they are but they have turnbuckles from what you re saying sounds like your headstay is way to tight causing the curve in your mast perhaps your turnbuckles are missing on the uppers ?
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Mike
I have thye same issue on H260
However, I wouldn't chnage a thing. The boat points extremely well to windward and I have no problem reaching theoretical hull speed in 10-15 kts of wind and it moves well in light winds (5kts). It does look kinda strange though.
However, I wouldn't chnage a thing. The boat points extremely well to windward and I have no problem reaching theoretical hull speed in 10-15 kts of wind and it moves well in light winds (5kts). It does look kinda strange though.
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Crazy Dave Condon
questin mark
Too much weather helm can come from two causes. First the mast is raked back too far and you may have too much prebend in the mast which may be the problem. Suggest that the turnbuckles for the stays are equidistant and plumb bob your mast so that you have about 4-6 inches from the line hanging off the top of mast to a point on the mast at the height of the gooseneck. Crazy Dave Condon
Too much weather helm can come from two causes. First the mast is raked back too far and you may have too much prebend in the mast which may be the problem. Suggest that the turnbuckles for the stays are equidistant and plumb bob your mast so that you have about 4-6 inches from the line hanging off the top of mast to a point on the mast at the height of the gooseneck. Crazy Dave Condon
Don't be too hasty to reduce rake
I had the same problem when I bought my H23 three years ago. I reduced the rake by half and ended up with more weather helm. After two years of experimenting, I eventually found that mast rake was not the main source of my weather helm...excessive heel and poor sail trim were. Excessive heel can be reduced by putting more weight on the windward side of the boat, and also by good sail trim. Conventional wisdom says that 15 degrees of heel is about right for most trailerable Hunters. A clinometer will help here. As a general rule, I try to keep the leeward rail at least a foot off the water. Poor sail trim is trickier to fix, but it's easy if you remember that weather helm is caused by a mainsail that is too powerful relative to the headsail (jib). Since most Hunters have powerful mains and smaller jibs, the solution may be as easy as going from a 110 working jib to a 130 genoa. Otherwise, you have to find ways to depower the main. Here are a couple of ways to do it when sailing upwind, in order of relative ease: 1) increase outhaul tension and cunningham tension 2) reduce leech tension. In most cases, this is done by easing the mainsheet slightly. When sailing close-hauled, the mainsheet also pulls the boom DOWN, which tightens the leech. Leech tension is correct when the top batten is parallel to the boom. In heavier air, it should point off to leeward. This means the leech is open, spilling air off the top of the sail and reducing heel. Another way to reduce leech tension is to tighten the backstay. This bends the mast, which depowers the sail in two ways at the same time; flattens the mainsail and reduces leech tension. 3) in heavy air, ease the mainsheet in the gusts and retrim as the gust passes. It's a pain when cruising, but very effective when racing. If you have a traveler, ease that instead of the mainsheet for even more effect. 4) tune some bend into the rig. Adjust the mast to the rake you want using the forestay and backstay, then tension the upper shrouds to give you the prebend you need. Make sure the mast is centered from side to side. Finally, tension the lowers shrouds to stiffen up the rig. The amount of rake and prebend depends on how aggresively you sail, the typical winds you encounter and the condition of your mainsail. If the main is old and blown out, you'll probably need more prebend to flatten it. Sorry to be so long-winded, but I wanted to be as thorough as I could. Check the archives also, I think we've had several discussions about this in the past. Good luck. Peter H23 "Raven"
I had the same problem when I bought my H23 three years ago. I reduced the rake by half and ended up with more weather helm. After two years of experimenting, I eventually found that mast rake was not the main source of my weather helm...excessive heel and poor sail trim were. Excessive heel can be reduced by putting more weight on the windward side of the boat, and also by good sail trim. Conventional wisdom says that 15 degrees of heel is about right for most trailerable Hunters. A clinometer will help here. As a general rule, I try to keep the leeward rail at least a foot off the water. Poor sail trim is trickier to fix, but it's easy if you remember that weather helm is caused by a mainsail that is too powerful relative to the headsail (jib). Since most Hunters have powerful mains and smaller jibs, the solution may be as easy as going from a 110 working jib to a 130 genoa. Otherwise, you have to find ways to depower the main. Here are a couple of ways to do it when sailing upwind, in order of relative ease: 1) increase outhaul tension and cunningham tension 2) reduce leech tension. In most cases, this is done by easing the mainsheet slightly. When sailing close-hauled, the mainsheet also pulls the boom DOWN, which tightens the leech. Leech tension is correct when the top batten is parallel to the boom. In heavier air, it should point off to leeward. This means the leech is open, spilling air off the top of the sail and reducing heel. Another way to reduce leech tension is to tighten the backstay. This bends the mast, which depowers the sail in two ways at the same time; flattens the mainsail and reduces leech tension. 3) in heavy air, ease the mainsheet in the gusts and retrim as the gust passes. It's a pain when cruising, but very effective when racing. If you have a traveler, ease that instead of the mainsheet for even more effect. 4) tune some bend into the rig. Adjust the mast to the rake you want using the forestay and backstay, then tension the upper shrouds to give you the prebend you need. Make sure the mast is centered from side to side. Finally, tension the lowers shrouds to stiffen up the rig. The amount of rake and prebend depends on how aggresively you sail, the typical winds you encounter and the condition of your mainsail. If the main is old and blown out, you'll probably need more prebend to flatten it. Sorry to be so long-winded, but I wanted to be as thorough as I could. Check the archives also, I think we've had several discussions about this in the past. Good luck. Peter H23 "Raven"
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Paul
exactly...
Reducing rake adds draft to your sails by "pushing" sailcloth toward the center of effort. Whenever you want to depower a sail, you usually want to reduce the draft, to make the sail flatter, not make it fuller. Your mast may be bent wrong, but straightening it out won't reduce your weather helm, I'll bet. Try reefing.
Reducing rake adds draft to your sails by "pushing" sailcloth toward the center of effort. Whenever you want to depower a sail, you usually want to reduce the draft, to make the sail flatter, not make it fuller. Your mast may be bent wrong, but straightening it out won't reduce your weather helm, I'll bet. Try reefing.
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Carl
240 in heavy air
I have an 02 240 and regularly sail in winds over 15 knots. One thing I've learned is the 240 needs to be tuned by the book, 4-6 inches of rake 2 inches prebend 20% outer shrouds 10% inner. Reef the mian get it as flat as a board and hold on because it is going to be a fun ride.Sure it will want to head up, but just play with the main sheet and its very managable,but then again I like that kind of sailing on the edge.
I have an 02 240 and regularly sail in winds over 15 knots. One thing I've learned is the 240 needs to be tuned by the book, 4-6 inches of rake 2 inches prebend 20% outer shrouds 10% inner. Reef the mian get it as flat as a board and hold on because it is going to be a fun ride.Sure it will want to head up, but just play with the main sheet and its very managable,but then again I like that kind of sailing on the edge.
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Bob Kalisz
Another Idea
Two weeks ago I spent the weekend on the lake. Saturday 10-15 mph winds. I noticed a lot of weather helm. While taking an after sail swim I looked at the rudder and found it had moved back. I repositioned it forward and the next day with with slightly higher winds, virtually no weather helm. Bob
Two weeks ago I spent the weekend on the lake. Saturday 10-15 mph winds. I noticed a lot of weather helm. While taking an after sail swim I looked at the rudder and found it had moved back. I repositioned it forward and the next day with with slightly higher winds, virtually no weather helm. Bob
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Ivan Fernandez
Thanks
Thanks to all who replied. I am going to try reefing the main this weekend. I checked the archives on this subject and I'm pretty much convinced that this will do the trick. Thanks again.
Thanks to all who replied. I am going to try reefing the main this weekend. I checked the archives on this subject and I'm pretty much convinced that this will do the trick. Thanks again.
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Butch Berchem
Mast rack/bend
Don't confuse mast rack with mast bend. If your forestay is already as tight as it can get, I wouldn't advise cutting it. Check out the mast rack first by, Hanging a plumb bob (weight) on the main halyard and let it hang away from the mast about 12" below the boom at the gooseneck. It should hang freely about 8" behind the mast. If it's further then that you might indeed have a forestay too long. Second the amount of mast bend in a beeze is a good thing. The straighter the mast section the more power the mainsail will have. A mast bend of say 4" is not in itself a bad thing. It will draw the mainsail fabric forward as the luff goes up the mast and thus actually flatten the sail out there by decreasing helm and heel. The straighter the mast the more powerful the mainsail. I might also suggest that you ease the mainsail out in heavier air increasing twist up top and reducing weather helm. You failed to mention too if you were reefed or not. I hope this helps let me know
Don't confuse mast rack with mast bend. If your forestay is already as tight as it can get, I wouldn't advise cutting it. Check out the mast rack first by, Hanging a plumb bob (weight) on the main halyard and let it hang away from the mast about 12" below the boom at the gooseneck. It should hang freely about 8" behind the mast. If it's further then that you might indeed have a forestay too long. Second the amount of mast bend in a beeze is a good thing. The straighter the mast section the more power the mainsail will have. A mast bend of say 4" is not in itself a bad thing. It will draw the mainsail fabric forward as the luff goes up the mast and thus actually flatten the sail out there by decreasing helm and heel. The straighter the mast the more powerful the mainsail. I might also suggest that you ease the mainsail out in heavier air increasing twist up top and reducing weather helm. You failed to mention too if you were reefed or not. I hope this helps let me know
J
Jim Maroldo
And what about the traveller?
Peter made some great observations, with which I fully agree. Now, what about the traveller that you mentioned, Peter? For those who are not familiar with the H23, the mainsheet traveller has spring-loaded pin blocks to hold the car in position. This makes it very difficult to adjust under load. I THINK it'd be nice to be able to ease or tighten the main while still keeping the sheet tensioned. Has anyone tried replacing this setup with a line-controlled or other system? Would it be a GOOD thing? Jim Maroldo s/v: Lil' Wass Ett
Peter made some great observations, with which I fully agree. Now, what about the traveller that you mentioned, Peter? For those who are not familiar with the H23, the mainsheet traveller has spring-loaded pin blocks to hold the car in position. This makes it very difficult to adjust under load. I THINK it'd be nice to be able to ease or tighten the main while still keeping the sheet tensioned. Has anyone tried replacing this setup with a line-controlled or other system? Would it be a GOOD thing? Jim Maroldo s/v: Lil' Wass Ett
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