Too many lines, not enough cleats.. (long)

[Guest]

with only three cleats, one bow and two on the rear, I am finding it hard to tie the boat up at dock. I am on the intercoastal in florida and the waves bouncing from side to side are pretty brutal.. in the north, I've always had floating docks in fairly protected harbors.. Plus they say for hurricane season to double line with at least 3/8in rope and there is no way I can fit two of those on the back cleats.. Wondering if anyone has used anything different? attaching cleats to the toerail - good idea - bad idea? I've seen ones that can be bolted on to the toerail or could I use some snap loops over toe rail? would many smaller (cheaper?) lines with snap loops at the end be more effective, provide more loading more evenly on the toe rail?I would think that with the jib sheets being hooked to the toe rail that it would be pretty strong. I would use the winches but the waves coming in off the intercoastal roll the boat over 15-20 degrees then back over to the other side, I really don't like the idea of that much jerking on the winches. Right now, I have two 40 foot ropes on each side stretched front to back in an X pattern.. which seems to be doing a pretty good job at controlling the rolls and adjusting to the tide swings. Hurricane season is what really worries me. any suggestions?ps. at least it isn't a powerboat, about one a month sinks because of waves breaking over the sides. thanks!R Paquin

 

[Mark]

Nylon

Make sure you use nylon.It will stretch where other lines will not.Try using the anchor cleat as well?

 

[David Foster]

6 Cleats on our h27

Two on the bow, and two on the stern were certainly original equipment. We also have two midships cleats mounted through the deck and backed by stailness steel plates. These take the spring lines that you are now running the length of the boat.The toerail is a strong structure. But if you mount the midships cleats on it I strongly recommend adding stainless steel backing plates for at least the 3 bolts around the cleat. While a cleat on the toerail would do very well against the fore/aft pull of spring lines, I would be concerned about the sideways twisting caused by the 20 degree rolls you experience on a cleat mounted higher off the deck on the toerail,Strong as it is, strain from heavy local loads does deform the toerail and deck/hull joint enough to cause leaks on these boats, so backing is key. We have no problem doubling lines on our cleats. We mount the first line by pulling the spliced eye at one end through the hole in the cleat, and back around it. Then there is plenty of room to properly tie another line over it. If your cleats don;t allow this then replacing them would be relatively easy.Finally, I would consider a second cleat on the bow, or oversizing the single cleat to handle multiple lines. If you do, be sure to add a stainless steel backing to the plywood that was normal on these boats. Be sure to protect the deck balsa filling by over sizing any new hole, filling it with epoxy, and then drilling the final hole throug the epoxy plug.Hurricane preparation is a whole other story. But you are going to want to seek a more protected hurricane shelter, or hold your boat off the dock with pilings, or anchors. There are good discussions of this issue in the archives here, and on Sailnet.com.No hurricanes and no sharks is why my Admiral loves sailing the Great Lakes. Of course we do get all that cold white stuff that forces Lady Lillie out of the water for part of each year.You've got a great boat - and getting the cleats right is not a big project.Enjoy it!DavidLady Lillie'77 h27