Too bad that central america can be so unsafe...
- Thread starter Ralph18414
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Very tragic but fortunately very rare.
There is always safety in numbers and that applies to anchorages as well. It does not guarantee safety but at least it reduces the risk, and it can happen at home. I know of a number of people who avoid going out at night in their own neighborhoods for fear of a mugging. Every paper, every day has horror stories about crime. For all of the bad stories, there are many good ones that you never hear of.
Sometimes you get a surprize and bump into a good samaritan that blows you away. Last winter, my wife and I stopped for a slice of pizza in a little hole in the wall in La Paz. I paid for the pizza, slipped my wallet into the pocket of my baggy shorts, sat down and ate. It was a pretty busy place with people coming and going. We finished, got up and left. About a block down a very busy street, I felt a tug on my shirt and looked down. There was a little boy about 8 years old who held up my wallet and gave it to me. He pointed to the ground and back towards the pizza place, smiled and ran down the street. In the crowd I saw him reach a woman who took his hand. She smiled back at me, I waved, and she disappeared into the crowd. Nothing was touched, american money, mexican pesos, credit cards, etc. I would have been in serious trouble. Never even had a chance to say "Mucho Gracias!"
There is always safety in numbers and that applies to anchorages as well. It does not guarantee safety but at least it reduces the risk, and it can happen at home. I know of a number of people who avoid going out at night in their own neighborhoods for fear of a mugging. Every paper, every day has horror stories about crime. For all of the bad stories, there are many good ones that you never hear of.
Sometimes you get a surprize and bump into a good samaritan that blows you away. Last winter, my wife and I stopped for a slice of pizza in a little hole in the wall in La Paz. I paid for the pizza, slipped my wallet into the pocket of my baggy shorts, sat down and ate. It was a pretty busy place with people coming and going. We finished, got up and left. About a block down a very busy street, I felt a tug on my shirt and looked down. There was a little boy about 8 years old who held up my wallet and gave it to me. He pointed to the ground and back towards the pizza place, smiled and ran down the street. In the crowd I saw him reach a woman who took his hand. She smiled back at me, I waved, and she disappeared into the crowd. Nothing was touched, american money, mexican pesos, credit cards, etc. I would have been in serious trouble. Never even had a chance to say "Mucho Gracias!"
Well, I have a dffernt view on this...
(as expected, I guess).
Guatemala has about 1/2 the population of Southern California, just 20% more than Los Angeles county. Guatelemala's population is about 12M, So Cal about 23M.
Second, the crime targets in Gaut. are far fewer, i.e., obvious tourists, who will (obviously) have something worth stealing, versus the general population. On the other hand, you can't swing a cat in LA without hitting a Ferrari or Mercedes, or a Versace or YSL purse. Therefore, the crime risk to Americans in Gaut. should be proportionately much higher than in So Cal.
My analysis: no way on earth anywhere in Gautemala is safer for Americans than anywhere in So Cal.
(as expected, I guess).
Guatemala has about 1/2 the population of Southern California, just 20% more than Los Angeles county. Guatelemala's population is about 12M, So Cal about 23M.
Second, the crime targets in Gaut. are far fewer, i.e., obvious tourists, who will (obviously) have something worth stealing, versus the general population. On the other hand, you can't swing a cat in LA without hitting a Ferrari or Mercedes, or a Versace or YSL purse. Therefore, the crime risk to Americans in Gaut. should be proportionately much higher than in So Cal.
My analysis: no way on earth anywhere in Gautemala is safer for Americans than anywhere in So Cal.
Wow, check this stat:
"In 2004, Guatemala experienced an alarmingly violent crime wave. More than 2,000 murders took place, which were blamed on crime gangs and bands of teenagers."
That's a murder rate of 17 per 100,000. Compare to the aggregate U.S. homicide rate of about 5.6. Note homicide is usually a much bigger number than murders, because it includes motor vehicle, negligent, and other non-murder homicide. California's 2004 murder rate was 6.6 per 100,000.
"In 2004, Guatemala experienced an alarmingly violent crime wave. More than 2,000 murders took place, which were blamed on crime gangs and bands of teenagers."
That's a murder rate of 17 per 100,000. Compare to the aggregate U.S. homicide rate of about 5.6. Note homicide is usually a much bigger number than murders, because it includes motor vehicle, negligent, and other non-murder homicide. California's 2004 murder rate was 6.6 per 100,000.
This should probably be moved to the Sails Call Lounge, but
since it was posted here I feel compelled to respond here. I don’t think it is fair to paint all of Central America or all of Latin America with such a broad brush. I have friends “gringos” who are working and living in Cost Rica who love it there. They especially love the people there. Whom they find are kind and friendly people.
Coming back from Estero Beach a couple of years ago we lost the Hobie Cat that was loaded with camping equipments and all of our water toys. The trailer came unhitched from my brother’s-in-law motor home. By the time a passing car alerted us we were a couple of miles pass El Mirador. We had to go another 5 miles to find a bridge to turn around, and then travel the 7-8 miles back. It seem like forever. We had no idea what to expect. By the time we had gotten back we had awfulized that the boat had crossed the divider and wiped out a family going in the opposite direction, or the trailer had gone off the 800’ cliff, or that the locals had stripped the boat and ramshackled our goodies,
When we did get back what we found was a crowd gathered at the bridge just watching the trailer and boat that jumped a 3 ft trench and ended up in the ice plant. After we managed to find a safe place to park the motel on wheels. Several people came down to help us lift the boat over the trench and back on the highway shoulder. One fellow in particular hung with us and helped us push the boat and trailer to the motor home. Just by a miracle we found the nut that came off from the ball that was still attached to the trailer in the ice plant. The fellow that stayed with us had a large pipe wrench in his van and helped us tighten the nut. My brother-in-law tried to offer the guy money for helping us and he refused. With a couple of much gracias and que le vaya bien’s we were on our way.
I believe in the good nature of people, but in any situation where you find poverty, desperate people will do desperate things.
Frank
since it was posted here I feel compelled to respond here. I don’t think it is fair to paint all of Central America or all of Latin America with such a broad brush. I have friends “gringos” who are working and living in Cost Rica who love it there. They especially love the people there. Whom they find are kind and friendly people.
Coming back from Estero Beach a couple of years ago we lost the Hobie Cat that was loaded with camping equipments and all of our water toys. The trailer came unhitched from my brother’s-in-law motor home. By the time a passing car alerted us we were a couple of miles pass El Mirador. We had to go another 5 miles to find a bridge to turn around, and then travel the 7-8 miles back. It seem like forever. We had no idea what to expect. By the time we had gotten back we had awfulized that the boat had crossed the divider and wiped out a family going in the opposite direction, or the trailer had gone off the 800’ cliff, or that the locals had stripped the boat and ramshackled our goodies,
When we did get back what we found was a crowd gathered at the bridge just watching the trailer and boat that jumped a 3 ft trench and ended up in the ice plant. After we managed to find a safe place to park the motel on wheels. Several people came down to help us lift the boat over the trench and back on the highway shoulder. One fellow in particular hung with us and helped us push the boat and trailer to the motor home. Just by a miracle we found the nut that came off from the ball that was still attached to the trailer in the ice plant. The fellow that stayed with us had a large pipe wrench in his van and helped us tighten the nut. My brother-in-law tried to offer the guy money for helping us and he refused. With a couple of much gracias and que le vaya bien’s we were on our way.
I believe in the good nature of people, but in any situation where you find poverty, desperate people will do desperate things.
Frank
Jviss, You Are Correct....
I thought Guatemala was 19,000,000; it's closer to 12. SoCal is now estimated about 23 million. Anyhow, too bad for those cruisers. You do seem to hear of more crime around the world directed at cruisers. I think that needs to be tempered by the increasing size of the cruising population as well as the better communications available to us. I have spent time in Nicaragua, Columbia, and Costa Rica. I don't think of any of them as safe as Mexico, but that may just be familiarity. I do think the cruising areas are safer than the larger cities. All that is strictly impressions of course, nothing statistical. For example, lots of people are paranoid about Mexico despite recent cartel wars not usually involving 'civilians'. But, certainly, if you are the victim, it's too much regardless. RD
I thought Guatemala was 19,000,000; it's closer to 12. SoCal is now estimated about 23 million. Anyhow, too bad for those cruisers. You do seem to hear of more crime around the world directed at cruisers. I think that needs to be tempered by the increasing size of the cruising population as well as the better communications available to us. I have spent time in Nicaragua, Columbia, and Costa Rica. I don't think of any of them as safe as Mexico, but that may just be familiarity. I do think the cruising areas are safer than the larger cities. All that is strictly impressions of course, nothing statistical. For example, lots of people are paranoid about Mexico despite recent cartel wars not usually involving 'civilians'. But, certainly, if you are the victim, it's too much regardless. RD
Anecdotes v. statistics
Caguy and others, I hear what you are saying; I sent my 20 year old daughter to Gautemala to build a house for a poor person (she's an architecture student). But anecdotes are just that, they are, as in this case, heartwarming stories told by the fortunate who were not crime victims. Statistics, on the other hand, tell the broader story. Bear in mind, too, that crime statistics are only as good as the incidence of crime reporting, which is typically much lower in poorer places, and in poorer or more corrupt countries. These countries paint themselves with the broad brush of crime statistics.
Caguy and others, I hear what you are saying; I sent my 20 year old daughter to Gautemala to build a house for a poor person (she's an architecture student). But anecdotes are just that, they are, as in this case, heartwarming stories told by the fortunate who were not crime victims. Statistics, on the other hand, tell the broader story. Bear in mind, too, that crime statistics are only as good as the incidence of crime reporting, which is typically much lower in poorer places, and in poorer or more corrupt countries. These countries paint themselves with the broad brush of crime statistics.
Be carefull with statistics
I am not necessarily debating whether the crime statistic is accurate but statistics can generally be spun to support almost any argument.
A study during WWI showed that head injuries increased after providing troops with helmits. One might deduce that the helmets were not helping when in fact they were preventing deadly head injuries. So without the helmet you would die, with the helmet you survive with a head injury.
I am not necessarily debating whether the crime statistic is accurate but statistics can generally be spun to support almost any argument.
A study during WWI showed that head injuries increased after providing troops with helmits. One might deduce that the helmets were not helping when in fact they were preventing deadly head injuries. So without the helmet you would die, with the helmet you survive with a head injury.
Stats
Yes, but there is little subtlety with a macro stat like murder rate in a country with 12M people - the only caution I advise here is the definition of murder, i.e., crime classification, and rate of reporting. Assume for Gautemala it's higher in reality than reported, at least among the general population.
Anyway, I resign this discussion; I have nothing against Gautemala, or international travel.
Yes, but there is little subtlety with a macro stat like murder rate in a country with 12M people - the only caution I advise here is the definition of murder, i.e., crime classification, and rate of reporting. Assume for Gautemala it's higher in reality than reported, at least among the general population.
Anyway, I resign this discussion; I have nothing against Gautemala, or international travel.
Mexico City - what statistics don't tell
Mexico City has a reputation as being very dangerous nowadays, and it might be, especially certain areas as far as kidnappings. But ten or twelve years ago, I used to spend a lot of time there. The thing that always amazed me was traveling on the buses. They were packed so full that lots of people had to get in through the back door. Nobody tried to avoid paying their fare, though. They'd hand their money to the person in front of them, who passed it on. You don't need exact change (or at least didn't back then). After the money reached the driver, he'd make the change and pass it back. You could see the money travel from hand to hand above the passengers' heads. I never once saw somebody try to pocket the money nor anybody try to avoid paying their fare.
Of course, there were no statistics kept on this.
How do you think this system would have worked in any city in the US?
Mexico City has a reputation as being very dangerous nowadays, and it might be, especially certain areas as far as kidnappings. But ten or twelve years ago, I used to spend a lot of time there. The thing that always amazed me was traveling on the buses. They were packed so full that lots of people had to get in through the back door. Nobody tried to avoid paying their fare, though. They'd hand their money to the person in front of them, who passed it on. You don't need exact change (or at least didn't back then). After the money reached the driver, he'd make the change and pass it back. You could see the money travel from hand to hand above the passengers' heads. I never once saw somebody try to pocket the money nor anybody try to avoid paying their fare.
Of course, there were no statistics kept on this.
How do you think this system would have worked in any city in the US?
horrible story !
Sympathy to the family and wife...however not to start debate but I can't help but wonder if we might be reading a different version of this story if Daniel had a gun ??????
Sympathy to the family and wife...however not to start debate but I can't help but wonder if we might be reading a different version of this story if Daniel had a gun ??????
Teenager Shot Monday here in Bham
Birmingham Alabama is a very dangerous city. A 17 year old high school student got shot as some men were shooting at each other. She had walked lless than a block to a local store. Stuff happens !!!!!
Birmingham Alabama is a very dangerous city. A 17 year old high school student got shot as some men were shooting at each other. She had walked lless than a block to a local store. Stuff happens !!!!!
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