Toilet Paper

[Craig2up]

Hi Peggy
What's the deal with toilet paper? We have an electric macerating Jabsco toilet and using fresh water to flush. Everytime we've chartered a boat the charter people have threatened us within an inch of our life not to flush paper. Now that we live aboard it would sure be nice to be able to.
Also, there is a difference between RV/Boat TP and home TP, if we do flush paper does it really matter?
Connected in Connecticut...for the moment.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Yes, there's a difference...and yes it matters...however..

Charter companies have to be a lot more strict about what can and can't go into a marine toilet 'cuz people just don't get it that a toilet CAN swallow 6-8 sheets of quick-dissolve TP, but CAN'T swallow wet wipes, tampons, condoms, paper towels or half a roll of ANY TP at one time. Since they're the ones who have to clean out the clogs, they draw the line at ANYthing except what's been eaten (and even that isn't 100% bulletproof).

And there's another reason too: in the islands, toilets flush directly overboard...and even when only the "right" TP is used, white "snow flurries" out the thru-hulls of boats in an anchorage isn't the most aesthetically appealing sight.

There is definitely a difference between premium brand TP and marine/rv TP...premium TPs have extra fiibers for strength and creams for softness...they can clog a macerator and they can sit in water for a month without ever dissolving...which can clog up a hose and/or the discharge in a tank.

However..."marine/rv" TP is just flimsy made-from-recycled, practically-dissolves-in-your-hand-if-it-even-gets-damp you can find at Sams, and Costco and also in supermarkets for a fraction of the price.

To find out whether a particular brand/type of TP is suitable for use in a marine toilet, tear off a sheet...put it in a glass of water and leave it for at least a couple of hours. Stir it when you return. If the water is milky and all you see is "snow, " it's the same thing as "marine/rv." But if it's still an intact, or mostly intact sheet when you come back, keep looking...it'll clog your system.

It's guests who are responsible for 99% clogged toilets (which helps to explain the charter cos' attitude)...almost always WOMEN guests. Women who haven't learned to be boat savvy seem to be genetically programmed to use half a roll/flush...and a big enough wad of even the "right" TP can clog a toilet. But the GOOD news is...if it IS the "right" practically-dissolves-in-your-hand-if-it-even-gets-damp TP, the clog will dissolve on its own in an hour or two. So just wait...and tell your crew they'll just have to hold it or go swimming if they can't! :naughty:

 

[alexco38]

Does zero discharge from Boat applies to boats only? What about human direct discharge?

Sorry to be funny ;-)

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Only applies to discharge from boats...

But only if you put it into any device" intended to receive or retain" body wastes. "Direct deposit" from you at the rail is legal...though it's best to do that only after dark or where you have complete privacy...'cuz while you won't run afoul of any marine sanitation laws, there are those pesky indecent exposure laws to worry about.

It's a valid question...so no need to apologize for it.

And btw, "no discharge" ONLY applies to human body wastes...it does not apply to gray water (galley, bath and shower water)...it can go directly overboard in all waters except for a few inland lakes.

 

[Craig2up]

RV TP it is

Thanks Peggy, good info. We have found that RV/Marine TP is "MORE" expensive, not less, so maybe we're buying it at the wrong places. We haven't found it at Costco, but the one back home is not near a big boating community like here in CT. Walmart had it in their Auto/RV section, but again, way more expensive than Charmin. We've opted so far for the zip loc bag behind the door routine. I'm so used to it now I think I'll stick with the soft, strong stuff. The Admiral has opted for a portable bidet and absolutely loves it. Maybe we'll only offer our guests RV paper just to be on the safe side. I hear that tearing the system apart to unclog a paper jam is not a pleasant task.

 

[Craig2up]

Be sure that over the rail doesn't lead to overboard

In the sake of completeness and safety, remember that more men have been lost overboard while whizzing on Neptune than any other single cause, especially at night. You roll out of your bunk and decide to check the moon and stars while you take care of business and nobody knows you're missing.

While underway the rule is "everybody uses the head everytime for everything". The Admiral included a sign on the underside of each toilet lid: "Gentelmen please be seated during all performances". :dance:

But only if you put it into any device" intended to receive or retain" body wastes. "Direct deposit" from you at the rail is legal...though it's best to do that only after dark or where you have complete privacy...'cuz while you won't run afoul of any marine sanitation laws, there are those pesky indecent exposure laws to worry about.

It's a valid question...so no need to apologize for it.

And btw, "no discharge" ONLY applies to human body wastes...it does not apply to gray water (galley, bath and shower water)...it can go directly overboard in all waters except for a few inland lakes.

 

[alexco38]

Just get the cheapest single ply from No Frill super market will do. Yes, it disintegrates fast.

The Raritan head has a bigger diameter pump which can push a lot more than the cheap Jabsco. I know what I am going to get when my Jabsco quits.

I saw a boat named "Other Women" last week. I love the name. You never go cheap on the Other Women ;-)

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Urban legend...

Please cite your source for your statement that "that more men have been lost overboard while whizzing on Neptune than any other single cause, especially at night"...because I've never heard of a single documented case of an "open fly" drowning victim from a sailboat.

Any male drowning victims who HAVE been recovered with their flies open have fallen out of bass boats or similar open boats on an inland lake or river while fishing alone, usually in the dark (that's the only part of your statement that IS accurate). They don't wear PFDs...more often than not, beer consumption is a factor. They stand up to pee...the boat rocks a little...and in they go.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

We have found that RV/Marine TP is "MORE" expensive, not less, so maybe we're buying it at the wrong places.

I don't know where "flabbergasted" is getting his prices...but institutional TP is about 1/3 the price of TP labeled "marine/rv" and is the same thing! Years ago I was at the SeaLand plant and watched an employed unpack cases of of no-name TP and rebag it in SeaLand "marine/rv" bags. So buy the cheapest flimsiest stuff...test it in a jar of water to be certain.

We've opted so far for the zip loc bag behind the door routine.

No need to do that either unless you just HAVE to use TP that a marine toilet can't swallow.

I'm so used to it now I think I'll stick with the soft, strong stuff. The Admiral has opted for a portable bidet and absolutely loves it. Maybe we'll only offer our guests RV paper just to be on the safe side.

It's your money...but remember that it IS a sailboat, not a suite at the Ritz Carlton.

I hear that tearing the system apart to unclog a paper jam is not a pleasant task.

Believe it or not, the odds that you'll ever have to do that are much higher than it is for those who use only quick-dissolve TP.

 

[alexco38]

That's why they call them MOB (Man Over Board). Women are smarter.

 

[Johnb]

This forum has a tradition of respectful disagreement, stating facts, relating experiences, and offering points of view without denigrating other's ways.

 

[LuzSD]

I think this is funny for another reason. For the most part, we are not all out at sea for long periods of time, it is generally a day or two, and (at least in our case) it is not a matter of "poop". It dawned on me that as you men are hearing toilet paper you think poop, but we women use it every time and it is merely ...might I delicately say this... a dabbing situation! There is nothing gross, it is some paper with a wee (ha,ha) bit of moisture on it and it goes into a small bag, discreetly place and emptied to the trash at days end. In the case of 'poop TP' I think everyone would use very sparingly and flush it with lots of water.........RIGHT?? It would NOT be ziplocked at all (at least on my boat! )

So, I think the idea of putting used TP in a plastic bag has been bagged on enough, it is generally only done by us women and it allows us to use whatever amount we want and not clog anything. And THAT is my 2 cents.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Good one(s)!

My wife has learned to use the basic TP and knows how to properly use the head.

She tried the ziplock and got YUCKED out years ago. No clogs since.

If she can train me...

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Charmin, $.50/roll:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ultra-Soft-Rolls-Bathroom-Tissue/14284559
Thetford, $1.50/roll
http://www.amazon.com/Thetford-2080...Z74O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312384523&sr=8-1
These are just examples. This is so cheap, compared to almost anything we do, as to be totally meaningless, a no-brainer.

But NO one is recommending using either one of those! Charmin will clog the toilet and Thetford costs at least 3x as much as institutional grade TP from grocery stores and/or warehouse stores...which CAN be flushed.

Who would contemplate keeping poop tissue in a Zip-loc, hanging on the back of your head door, and having to deal putting the poop tissue into it, and with disposing of it,

I'm on your side there. But you'd be amazed at how many people, mostly sailors, who have a hard and fast rule of "NOTHING goes into the toilet that hasn't passed through you."

 

[WayneH]

PS just did an article on toilet paper. Scott's Rapid Dissolving TP was the Best Choice.

" Scott’s Rapid Dissolving tissue (made by Kimberly Clark) made for RVs and boats was the fastest-dissolving product in our test. It wasn’t a very strong paper, but it got the job done. Sheets were relatively thick, and in terms of dollars per ounce, it was a pretty good value. "

They bought a 4-roll pack for $3 or $0.75 a roll.

Thetford's single ply rolls were second place.

With a travel trailer and a sailboat, we're buying the Scott's as you can get it at places other than worst marine.

 

[robertsapp]

When we charter in the BVI, the boats all say "no toilet paper in the toilet, deposit it in a bag." When we go ashore, most of the shoreside toilets say "no toilet paper in the toilet, deposit it in the provided container." So we get pretty used to dropping the paper in the bag/container. So when we're back on board our own boat, we've gotten used to having a small open top trash can in the head. The small office size. We keep an ample supple of those flimsy plastic grocery bags onboard that we get when shopping. One goes in the open top trash can as a liner. When you wipe (men or women) the paper goes in the bag. Nice large opening to hit, no muss no fuss. Daily, or when the bag gets full, or just whenever we think it needs it, we lift the grocery sack out of the trash can by its nice clean loops that were on the outside of the trash can, tie them together, and deposit it in the galley trash, placing a clean grocery sack in the head trash can. It's really easy, no mess, and best of all, it takes a LOT less water to flush the bowl when we're not trying to push a bunch of toilet paper though it, so longer time between pumpouts.

 

[Auspicious]

PS just did an article on toilet paper. Scott's Rapid Dissolving TP was the Best Choice.

I've never seen Scott's Rapid Dissolving TP, but have been using Scott's regular single-ply TP from the grocery store in my electric Jabsco for five years of liveaboard use. No problems.

When I have guests aboard I show them the size of a joker valve and promise to stand behind them and hand tools and advice if they clog it. Also no problems. *grin*

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I like your style!

Not many people have the nerve to use a joker valve as a "teaching aid" to instruct guests in the use of the toilet. Add a blender and few "unflushables" to simulate the macerator and I think you'd have a makings of a nautical viral video! :dance:

 

[Craig2up]

The reference is from Maritime Professional Training, 100 ton Master Captains Course, course notes. I'm sure it wasn't a scientific study...after all, lost at sea is lost at sea. I will stand firm in the policy aboard Sail On... that while underway all such duties will be performed in the head and not overboard...every time. Any other policy would be irresponsible.

Please cite your source for your statement that "that more men have been lost overboard while whizzing on Neptune than any other single cause, especially at night"...because I've never heard of a single documented case of an "open fly" drowning victim from a sailboat.

Any male drowning victims who HAVE been recovered with their flies open have fallen out of bass boats or similar open boats on an inland lake or river while fishing alone, usually in the dark (that's the only part of your statement that IS accurate). They don't wear PFDs...more often than not, beer consumption is a factor. They stand up to pee...the boat rocks a little...and in they go.