Toe rail
- Thread starter rblevens
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The hull is put onto the deck, the screwed, then the toe rails are put on, (on all construction i have seen) so when you remove the toe rails, the hull is still screwed to the deck. They screw them together before they put the toe rails on.
Sorry, but I can't visualize what you are asking. Can you expand in a bit more detail?
Re AtlanticAl's observation, on my 1980 Hunter 36 (which I am pretty sure has the same hull/deck/toe rail joint construction as the 37c), all the toe rail bolts go through the toe rail, then the deck and finally through the hull flange. When I tightened my toe rail bolts a few years ago from the inside, all the way along the length, I did come across just a few screws that look like they went only from the deck into the flange before the toe rail was installed. My guess is these were needed to help align the joint before the toe rail was secured. These screws were too few and too small to add any structural strength. In my opinion, the toe rail probably is crucial to the integrity/strength of the deck/hull joint. Without it, the joint will be a lot more flexible between the bolts and will probably leak like crazy.
For a more informative description of the toe rail and the hull/deck joint, see post #8 of this thread. Fairly recent. http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=895893#post895893
My starboard toe rail was removed a year ago. No issue in removing the toe rail. The hull to deck flange is glued together with some goop like 5200 and also screwed every few feet (you will find the screws when you remove the toerail; some may be visible from the inside too). The only limitation is not to pickup the boat - with a travel lift, crane slings, etc. - while the toe rail is removed...no sense tempting fate! Be forwarned that the toe rail will return to a nearly straight line when unbolted and it is at least a 2 person job to get it bolted up again! If you have to install a new toe rail, the holes will probably not line up and you will end up filling and redrilling some or all of them.
Caveat about remving toerail
You may consider not entirely removing the toerail, to avoid the potential problem Jim mentions, and just rock it upwards with flatbars after you have removed or loosened the locknuts. This may be adequate for scraping/chipping out some old 5200 and replacing it with new.
(Please don't use anything other than 5200 on this. Please, please.)
I have observed two things which may be of value here.
1. Hunter tended to use longer bolts than necessary. They are 316-SS carriage bolts with square shanks that fit into the square holes of the toerail extrusion. Why they made them square I will never know. I have replaced a few with regular machine screws where some piece of hardware was to go, and there is nothing wrong with doing this in a few places. The added length of the bolts indicates that Hunter may have had problems getting the toerail aligned just right before being able to turn the locknuts onto the threads; so this may be a warning to you to not take it all the way off yourself.
2. I found that the carriage bolts worked up and out very easily with a few well-placed hits from a persuading device from below. I was impressed to find very little corrosion of the aluminum where the head of the bolt had been (in some places none). Still, I would advise you to put some low-strength electrolytically-insulating Loc-Tite under each one when you bed them down again. If you have exchanged any for machine screws (due to damage, hardware, placement, etc., an easy trick is to put a bit of electrical tape under the flat washer and trim it with a knife prior to installing the new screw. Of course flat washers won't work with square-shank carriage bolts.
If you use black 5200 you may end up with a very nice fillet of 5200 along the edge of the toerail at the deck. This can only help with keeping out water, will be easier to maintain in future and may even look nicer than the clean edge.
In any event be very careful to not nick or scratch the black finish of the aluminum as you work the rail up. I'm pretty sure that anodized finish is what keeps it from corroding under the bolt heads!
You may consider not entirely removing the toerail, to avoid the potential problem Jim mentions, and just rock it upwards with flatbars after you have removed or loosened the locknuts. This may be adequate for scraping/chipping out some old 5200 and replacing it with new.
(Please don't use anything other than 5200 on this. Please, please.)
I have observed two things which may be of value here.
1. Hunter tended to use longer bolts than necessary. They are 316-SS carriage bolts with square shanks that fit into the square holes of the toerail extrusion. Why they made them square I will never know. I have replaced a few with regular machine screws where some piece of hardware was to go, and there is nothing wrong with doing this in a few places. The added length of the bolts indicates that Hunter may have had problems getting the toerail aligned just right before being able to turn the locknuts onto the threads; so this may be a warning to you to not take it all the way off yourself.
2. I found that the carriage bolts worked up and out very easily with a few well-placed hits from a persuading device from below. I was impressed to find very little corrosion of the aluminum where the head of the bolt had been (in some places none). Still, I would advise you to put some low-strength electrolytically-insulating Loc-Tite under each one when you bed them down again. If you have exchanged any for machine screws (due to damage, hardware, placement, etc., an easy trick is to put a bit of electrical tape under the flat washer and trim it with a knife prior to installing the new screw. Of course flat washers won't work with square-shank carriage bolts.
If you use black 5200 you may end up with a very nice fillet of 5200 along the edge of the toerail at the deck. This can only help with keeping out water, will be easier to maintain in future and may even look nicer than the clean edge.
In any event be very careful to not nick or scratch the black finish of the aluminum as you work the rail up. I'm pretty sure that anodized finish is what keeps it from corroding under the bolt heads!
I have had the toe rails off of Midnight Sun three times. Nothing moved. The last time was to replace them. The new ones wrer made by Crest Aluminum in Cleveland and fit perfectly.
Sure, being as you have you hands full with engine problems and you are a fellow Cherubini enthusiast I'd only want you to cover the shipping expense. Hell these boats are getting old and replacement parts are expensive (just spent 85 bucks on gasket material for my deck hatches). And Jorge offered me some of his spares so I'm more than happy to help ya out. I think the cheapest way to ship would be folded up in a giant home made "envelope" of cardboard maybe a few layers thick and sent either snail mail or ups ground. both toenails are sitting against the back fence of the yard still, I am planning on cutting them in half to transport home does anybody else want dibs on a full length before I do? also is this a project in your very near future? if so ill move it up on my to-do list
The toe rail extrusion used on the H37 cutter is, I beleive, unique to that boat. Here is the drawing:
it appears to be the same, maybe the spacing of the holes is slightly different but i won't know till i get them back home. I will compare to the specs listed and report back
None, nada, zero tubes of 5200. Go to Maine Sail's site and read about butyl tape. You can even order it from him.
http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=117172
http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=117172
Just be careful w/the Butyl tape. First time I used it w/the handrails, I put too much and it oozed out under the handrails. Next time I removed the handrails for painting the boat, the Butyl had dog hair, dirt, etc. embedded in it. It doesn't dry hard, was a sticky mess. Was a mess to remove. Decided to not use it when put handrails back on, used Boatlife Caulk in the screw holes instead.
Blevens here are the pics of what i have, the crew holes and cutouts are 6" on center, let me know if its what you need.
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Ok guys me and my buddy have been working on fixing up a 78 H-25 that is in bad need of a port toe rail. It was chewed up bad when another boat came loose from its mooring in a storm and started banging away on the port side of are boat. We have looked into Crest but it would cost more than are whole boat so we decided to live with it.
Redbeard33 if you are looking to get rid of that stuff and have any left after rblevens gets what he needs my buddy and I would be interested. Pictures look identical to what we have with wholes 6'' on center.
We are in Chicago so anywhere in IL and we could pick it up and chip in on expenses with RB as is looks like you are in IL as well. Let me know if theres a chance.
Thanks
Redbeard33 if you are looking to get rid of that stuff and have any left after rblevens gets what he needs my buddy and I would be interested. Pictures look identical to what we have with wholes 6'' on center.
We are in Chicago so anywhere in IL and we could pick it up and chip in on expenses with RB as is looks like you are in IL as well. Let me know if theres a chance.
Thanks
i wish i knew before i picked them up from the yard, no one responded to the earlier post so i cut them in half, i have 4 pieces that are about 16' each (roughly) your more than welcome to whats left after Rblevens gets what he needs (i already promised him first dibs) but it sounds like he only needs a short section. Let me know if you still want them
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