Todays 4 stroke outboards....

[Chuck R]

I grew up with 2 stroke Johnsons, Evinrudes and Mercury outboards. But my experience with these new 4-stroks 5 HP has not been exactly pleasant.
My new to me 222 O'Day came with an almost new Nissan 4-stroke outboard that was made by Tohatsu. They also make the Mercury 4-5 & 6 Hp motors too. Previous owner only used the motor about four times the prior season when he bought it new. During my first season I could never get it to idle smoothly. Adding SEAFOAM FUEL CLEANER helped but it still was threatening to stall out when docking the boat. Last winter I decided to bite the bullet, Ordered the carb kit new fuel pump, fuel filter. thermostate and changed out the fresh water impeller. This year it has been working perfectly untill three weeks ago. It stopped dead coming into the channel (with rip rap and hugh boulders) lined on both sides. Not a good place to quit !! Good thing the wind was blowing straight dow the channel from aft as we were able to drift over to the gas dock. There I tried to start the motor. It took many tries and after taking out the fuel filter and blowing backwards through it I could get the motor to run. Now it would die when I put it in gear. After running in neutral it finally would run if I didn't give it to much throttle.
Well I figure the carb is again dirty. So again I cleaned the carb, the gas tank and put in a second fuel filter at the gas tank. Put the motor on the bgoat and ran it fine at the dock, then decided to put it in gear and at an idel it ran good ,but when I gave it more throttle ( very fast idel ) after 10 minuets it stopped dead just like it did in the channel.

Took the motor to a local outboard repair service shop who said dirt in the fuel and carb told them I cleaned both carb and tank. $80.00 later I get it back on the boat and sure enough it ran 10 minuets and quit. The shop said it ran an hour no problem and that there was dirt in the carb and needed an adjustment. Took it to a second shop thinking it would be an ignition part that breaks down under heat or a load. But this shop also says a fuel problem after a week I get a call saying he does not understand this issue and that he has given up. Everything checks out fine, fuel system ignition, and it should run. I did not fix the problem therefore no Charge.

I have now found a Nissan dealer about 40 miles away and will be taking it there. hind sight easier than forsight huh.

I just wonder if anyone with a 4-5 or 6 HP Tohatsu, Nissan or Mercury has had issues like me? Wish we could still buy the 2 stroke engines.

 

[LANCE ON CLOUD NINE]

Are the shops running it on your tank?

Symptoms are similar to no or low vent. Do you have another tank you could try it on?

 

[Chuck R]

To Lance,,, The answer is Yes.

With the first shop we took the tank and line to them, and the second shop asked for them both. The sailboat has the tempo brand tank that fits perfectly in the fuel lazerette and is 6 gallons. We used it our first season, however we could not use up the full 6 gallons in one season. So thinking that the fuel was getting stale and old, we changed out the other 3 gallon tank that came with the engine thinking we could freshen up the fuel by adding gas in August.
Thanks for the idea. Both shops didn't think it was a fuel delivery issue, because it did the same with their fuel lines.

 

[Kelly]

Height of fuel tank?

I run a 7.5 hp Honda 4-stroke. Mine will die out if the tank is too low relative to the motor. The owners manual speaks to this. Just as a test you may wish to try putting the tank up in the cockpit (either on the seat or sole) and see if that makes a difference. It may be that the fuel pump isn't able to adequately siphon fuel based on position. Just my 2 cents...

 

[Joe11688]

Four strokes

Chuck,
One of my friends Dave, had problems with a new Honda four stroke that he had on his Boston Whaler, and another make four stroke engine on his O'Day 222. I feel the same way you do about wanting to have a two stroke engine. I love my 1999 Johnson Sailmaster 8 two stroke because it's never let me down, nor did the previous one that I had. This Ethanol stuff is ruining a lot of two strokes from what I've been hearing. Check out Small Craft Advisor number 52 July/August. Captain Pauley has an article in this magazine called "Ethanol and boats." I was with my friend Dave one day on his O'Day 222 when the motor conked out as we were entering a narrow alley leading to his slip at his marina. Very similar to what happened to you, we were able to use the wind and rudder steerage to reach a dock. The marina owner had told Dave that the easiest way to get into his slip was to "tie off your tiller and just use your motor." I told Dave, "This is a perfect reason why you never want to tie off your tiller." Anyway, I don't like four strokes. I'm glad that you're back in business with your new rudder blade. You won't have to worry about this one breaking. Good luck with the engine and the rudder blade.
Joe

 

[Shoaldrafter]

Four Stroke Outboard Problems

I am member of another forum where several have 8 and 9.9 hp four stroke motors. There are a lot of issues there also.

My old 2 stroke works well. I use sta bil with the 2 cycle oil. I use the same motor on two boats and have wanted to get a new motor to leave on one boat. However, you can only get new motors in 4 stroke and they seem to have too many problems.

As I recall years ago, 4 stoke engines always had carb issues that is why many of used 2 stroke motors. The problem has to increased because of the ethanol. Alcohol used be used in carb cleaners. Is the dirt that they claim to find because the alcohol is cleaning the tanks and lines or because the gas is dirtier from the get go?

Is there any company that still sells gas without ethanol? Is it legal to sell gas without ethanol?

Stabil has come out with a new product for mixing with ethanol gas for outboards: see link. I found the reference in Popular Mechanics. When you go to their web site you have to type in the search function: sta-bil ethanol treatment. I could not find a clear and easy link.

ed K
26

 

[Shoaldrafter]

About Tohatsu Motors

For the record, Tohatsu outboards used to be one of the most reliable motors although formerly not one of the big names.

Again I suspect fuel issues causing more than one problem. Ethanol is a solvent. Are we now getting all the grunge from refinery to motors?

Does anybody know of an add on fuel filter to add just before the engine?

In a few years they will be able to engineer around the ethanol issue, the problem is what do we do now, today?

Thank you Al Gore.

Ed K
26

 

[Hoosier Kevin]

What octane level do you use? How about the air intake?

I have a Yamaha 9.9 4 stroke that has done real well - I do use the highest octane premium gas available - my understanding is that these are high compression engines- they run extremly lean -

Also - these engines do run so lean - I know with dirt bikes (OK quit laughing! but these outboards are a lot like them) - that you can open it up - usually this requires enlarging the area that lets in the air - seriously - with this dirt bike I had - there was a air restictor plate in the inlet - this was part of the save the environment stuff - that is why with a lot of high performance dirt bikes one of the first things done to help the performance is open the air intake with a higher capcity air intake air filer - and a higher capacity pipe to get the exhaust out - KEEP in mind that you need to tune the carborator so that it spits a little more juice in -

on my Yamaha - there is a small air inlet that has a wire mesh on the outside - I don't know about the Tohatsu -

I think the big issue is - why aren't there better mechanics out there to help us out? - The only thing I can figure out is that these engines are at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to repair and maintenance income -

Give us a break!

 

[Everlong 25]

Deja Vu

Chuck R.,

Deja Vu all over again! I have an older Honda 7.5 4 stroke that had never given me problems. Last year, I put the motor on my 25, and after 15 minutes of running, the outboard sputters and stops. Luckily enough, were far enough down the channel that we just hoisted the main and sailed off. Comming back through the channel, I pulled the cord a couple of times and she fired up...but died again about 10 minutes later. I dropped anchor and did the fuel bowl drain and checked the lines. Started up and was fine until I tied up to my mooring.

Went out a few days later and could not get the motor to run. Cleaned the carb, new plugs...fire and die. I was pretty despondent and actually soliciting replacement motor suggestions from the forum, but before buying another motor, I figured I would pry information and suggestions of local folks that weren't having motor problems!

Talking with locals, the major change from my previous use of the motor to today is the ethanol in the fuel, which is especially critical with 4 strokes since the jets are much smaller than 2 strokes. Especially if you are using the E-85 gas, which I don't know if it is that common, but many folks have had problems. My repair guy told me that he was advising everyone to 1.Keep the fuel fresh (great, I use maybe 5 gallons a year!), use a fuel additive and definitely have a fuel filter.

I took the following actions:

1. Got fresh fuel and added Star Brite Star Tron additive. I have NOT used anything else and don't want to shill for this product, but it appears to be a very good fuel stabilizer. West Marine carries it for about $12. I actually put a couple of capfuls in the tank I have for my lawn mower and that has smoothed out too!

2. In Line fuel filter. About $60, with required fittings. I mounted it just above my fuel tank and have a line from my tank to the filter, another from the filter to the tank, both with the appropriate disconnects.

That was it. Last time I ran the motor, I motored for 4 hours without a hint of a problem. My Honda was a 2 pull starter...and that's where it's back to. I'm really glad that I didn't replace it since the goal is to use the motor as little as possible, but to have it run well when I do need it.

I'm thinking the shops you are taking your motor to are using a stabilized fuel with some sort of filtering, unless they are using your tank and fuel.

I have a link from West Marine about the Gas-Ethanol issue....I really think I could by ethanol free fuel...at least for marine use!


Hope this helps...worked for me.

Chuck L.

 

[Shoaldrafter]

Everlong of Narragansett Bay RI

Great URL! Helps.

What was filter you added? Fuel filter, water filter? Part number or description?

Again, thank you

Ed K
26

 

[Everlong 25]

Fuel filter specs....

Ed,


I actually, I went in to the local Yamaha dealer since he lured me in with a great offer for a replacement motor. To his credit,when he heard my symptoms, he basically told me about the fuel problem and that adding a cleaner/stabilizer alone wouldn't do it alone (especially if it's eating the rubber hose!). He suggested that I keep my motor and that what I really would need was a fuel filter/water seperator and that I would have to religiously change the filter at LEAST once a season. (For the little I use it, I figure that's enough). The fact that he insisted that I would need to buy the filter set up even if I did buy a new outboard kind of drove the point home for me.

I bought the filter and the connectors from him and as I said before, everything worked out fine. The thing is very similar to a car oil filter.

I've attaching a link to a web site (not his store, unfortunatley he isn't online). The link has my set up, I think all the boating places carry this type of filter, but if you have a local guy, this small dollar stuff is the type of things I like to buy locally out the independent guy.


Hope this helps...and remember to change that filter!

 

[ruidh]

Solvents

"Ethanol is a solvent. Are we now getting all the grunge from refinery to motors?"

Ummm. Gasoline is a solvent too. Gasoline is as good a solvent as ethanol is.

 

[Shoaldrafter]

Good point ...

Good point, but there are things that that one desolves easily while the other may not do so good. Works both ways, I think, from my experiences with having used both. And of course there are many other solvents.

However, solvents may not be as much an issue as the separation and moisture issues.

As to the gas station claiming to be selling gas without ethanol, I have to wonder were he gets it from? Is it old gas?

Ed K
26