To Trailer or not to...

twalker H260 · Sep 29, 2016

KG. I did see that sailboat data lists 7000lbs as does the manufacturer for the newer j30. The site I mentioned previously and the class site below both list 6000 factory, 6500 sailing. Not sure why the 1000lb discrepancy. Perhaps one is loaded wet weight for cruise vs dry weight or they may have updated engines or some such. Interestingly they all list ballast at 2100lbs. The only real way to know would be to weigh the original posters boat of interest.

http://j30.us/j30.org/public_html/html/technical/specs.html

I will say the 1000lb discrepancy would make the difference between a load near/at the max of the trailer and a fairly significant and potentially dangerous overload.

kito · Sep 29, 2016

I am not sure what tow vehicle you have but if it's not over the GWVR you could drop the keel to satisfy the trailers GWVR and put the keel in the back of your truck if it's a one ton (keel weighs 2100 lbs). Or make 2 trips since it's only 4 hours away.

It's project boat so you may be removing the keel anyway.

mm2347 · Sep 29, 2016

Most boats will weight more than the factory stated weight. If you can not weigh the boat be very conservative! Trailers are designed from the tires up to carry a given weight. Be sure the structure as well as the axels, bergs., and tires will handle a given amount. How do you know? If you don't-- don't do it.

Scott T-Bird · Sep 29, 2016

I give kito high marks for practical solutions! That sounds like a good idea!

Benny17441 · Sep 29, 2016

There is no set system for trailer manufacturers to assign the GVWR rating to their trailers. For trailers rated over 26,000 they use the IRS method (yes Internal Revenue Service) as such trailers are subject to Federal Excise Tax. Many trailer manufacturers use the Gross Axle Weight Rating X number of axles to assign their GVWR. The GAWR is defined as the load carrying capacity of a single axle and wheel assembly. The GAWR in turn is assigned by the axle manufacturer. The GVWR of a boat trailer may exceed the combined GAWR as the tow vehicle is perceived to carry a portion of the load. (10-15% tongue weight). There is a Safety Standard that is intended to maintain GVWR from being assigned unrealistically low as not to promote a culture of overloading. Also manufacturers must minimize the likelihood of their trailers being pulled by vehicles of insufficient capacity. The NHTSA expects reasonable ratings for the load and the type of cargo the trailers are intended to handle. I found a chart of typical axle diameters based on axle capacity
2,000 lbs 1 3/4 inches
3,500 lbs 2 3/8 inches
6,000 to 7000 lbs 3 inches

All this means that the GVWR should be pretty close to the trailer structural limits and that you should check your axles rating capacity and if they are under 3" they are not likely strong enough to tow 7,000 lbs. Remember a chain is just as strong as the weakest link so the tires, rims, springs and bearings must be adequately rated also. I embarked on this to learn about trailer ratings and came full circle to the realization that the GVWR and GAWR are good and fair ratings that should be adhered to. The NHTSA has provisions which tie in the ratings to highway safety and responsibility.

Benny17441 · Sep 29, 2016

Before dropping the keel or upgrading the trailer why don't you check the transportation costs or the rental fees for an adequate trailer?

CloudDiver · Sep 29, 2016

agprice22 said:
I have thought about dropping the keel. I would need to bring a flatbed trailer to haul it easily. That makes the most sense: 2 trips, no over-weight trailer. I could build a stand for the keel, lift the boat on jacks off the keel, put the boat on the trailer, and come back for the keel.
Hmmm... ?
What does everyone think? I have only ever dropped a swing keel, so what do I need to know about dropping the fin keel? Gotta be some grinding involved, big nuts, a long breaker bar, a 2x4 wood stand? Then I could bring a rolling 2 ton lift and lift the stand and keel into a trailer, strap it down tight, and carry it home...

Without having to do major modifications to the trailer (adding higher rater springs, new higher rated load tires, bearings etc), dropping the keel would be your safest bet to run two loads. Be prepared for a couple of days work, and besides the tools you already listed you'll need the dissolver liquid for 5200 and several steel wedges to coax the keel to drop. Don't forget a nice big hammer to pound on those wedges. There are few videos out there on keel drops showing this procedure.
I see two big bonus factors here, the aforementioned safety factory of not overloading your existing trailer being the first, and second; in the long run if the keel joint or bolts needed attention anyway you are going ahead and getting the hard part done in advance. Anything that needs to be done to the keel stub is now in reach... I don't think that boat has any plywood in the stub core, but in any case the bilge can be cleaned, inspected, core repair, glass added, backing plates made, etc. etc...
The keel can be re-attached last after you complete your restoration and re-fit at home. There are a bunch of videos on youtube and tons of info on the J/30 class association website about how to template the keel for better hydrodynamics... all of which could be easier to do with the keel off.
A huge benefit of keel off for a keel boat... invert the hull for a complete bottom job. trust me, I've done it and its worth it. I can't imagine having to do the same job on my back! Strip the bottom down completely (not necessary to peel the gelcoat, but you could) and let it dry several months to ensure you'll never have blister issues. Seal with 2 coats of epoxy resin and then barrier coat with Interlux Interprotect 2000.... possibly overkill but you have this once chance to have the keel off and invert the hull. Invest in six boat stands, but I have a feeling you already have those.

Jackdaw · Sep 29, 2016

CloudDiver said:
A huge benefit of keel off for a keel boat... invert the hull for a complete bottom job. trust me, I've done it and its worth it. I can't imagine having to do the same job on my back! .

For a Catalina 22 maybe. For a 30 footer with an inboard diesel, No thank you.

kito · Sep 29, 2016

Just my opinion but I would rather build a keel stand strong enough to just keep the keel vertical for when the hull is lifted off. Looking at the J30 keel spec, it looks very top heavy and would require a pretty stout 2 x 4 design for shipping purposes. I would feel better just having it lay flat in the bed and keep the stand for when you place the hull back over it for re-attachment.

JohnVTX · Sep 29, 2016

Again....don't do it.

kito · Sep 29, 2016

JohnVTX said:
Again....don't do it.

With the keel removed the J30 weighs 500 lbs less than the 272 he has been pulling.

CloudDiver · Sep 29, 2016

JohnVTX said:
Again....don't do it.

I think the big question to answer... to make it 'worth it', does the keel/keel stub/keel bolts need the maintenance anyway? Given the boats age, my bet is that it would be more beneficial than problematic. Then he an transport safely without worry.

CloudDiver · Sep 29, 2016

Jackdaw said:
For a Catalina 22 maybe. For a 30 footer with an inboard diesel, No thank you.

I considered that... didn't write it in because I don't know the condition of the existing aux diesel, but I'm willing to be it's either DOA or in need of a rebuild. In either case, I'd pull the motor as well all tankage. I have a feeling the OP is as thorough as I am as well as in possession of the equipment to do the job. Then again, maybe not. BTW, I've flipped 40ft hulls using forklifts... not sailboat hulls hence no keel, but the same concept.

Doug4bass · Sep 29, 2016

Up here in the wild U.P....there are MANY homemade trailers i.e cradles bolted to a flatbed that travel a short distance to but the boats to bed. Regarding the insurance claims...I cant imagine them actually weighing the boat vs the manufacturers "claimed" weight.

CloudDiver · Sep 29, 2016

agprice22 said:
Owner says the diesel runs great, gets few hours.

Well, that settles that.... don't flip it. However, inspect the keel and keel stub carefully. If you find anything askew that would benefit from having the keel off for maintenance/rebuild, then dropping the keel for safe transport is worth it.

kito · Sep 29, 2016

CloudDiver said:
Well, that settles that.... don't flip it. However, inspect the keel and keel stub carefully. If you find anything askew that would benefit from having the keel off for maintenance/rebuild, then dropping the keel for safe transport is worth it.

Hey CD, after sanding, 4 barrier coats and 3 coats of AF, flipping it sounds wonderful. Only the heating pad for my back had more of a workout.

Gunni · Sep 29, 2016

You are getting a deal on a boat with good bones and you can't afford to pay $2k to get it professionally delivered?