To sell or not??

[abe]

Reading some of the statements here...

makes it easy to understand why there are so many scammers out there and so many people who think its okay to screw someone else and not blink an eye. Remember, it wasn't about a simple change of mind...it was "I got call within hrs"..."so I raised the price" (and screw the poor guy who thought he found his boat).Nothing wrong with people given their opinion nor educating about right and wrong....But then again we are in the 21st century with "me" and the "x" generation.And yes I try to live by better ethics....I remember as a child my father selling a car and someone else came and offered him more money. He kept his word to the first buyer and waited till the next day for him to bring the money. This is what I grew up with and this is how I try to live my life. I guess with some of you it would have been okay to sell to the highest bidder and tell the first buyer "sorry sucker".abe

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

jviss....lighten up

You aint the hallway monitor.The only stuffy old fart around here is you. You are standing here on your own self rightous bandwagon and BTW, who elected you 'hallway monitor'?

 

[Rick Webb]

From What I Remember

As I was learning about purchasing and contracts in college there had to be an offer then acceptance and then consideration. Until there is somthing of value exchanged there is no contract. This is way out of my line of expertice and it matters not, somone who puts somthing up for sale and then tries to up the price and not sell it at all, well jerk would be a polite name to call them.

 

[higgs]

Interesting discussion

This issue has an interesting dynamic. Most of us feel that Brian's actions lacked a certain amount of integrity/ethics. One could surmise that most of us attempt to be upfront and open when dealing with others. There is a second school of thought some people subscribe to - a sort of "buyer beware" philosophy - where it is a dog eat dog world and one needs to be ever watchful and not trust anyone. If one gets sucker punched it is one's own fault for not being smarter. Here, as in society, we are seeing both philosophies espoused. Fortunately, in my opinion, most of us attempt to live up to the philosophy described in the first paragraph.

 

[Brian M H23]

hmm

I'm kind of cornered here and frankly quite surprised at how much emphasis there is on how I lack integrity, unethical actions, am "not a man", because I wish my seller had been so up front with me when I purchased my last car! I thought I handled the situation quite professionaly. Ok, so I had a craiglist ad up at one price, and changed it soon after. I contacted the one person who had left me a voicemail about the boat, informed them of the price change, they still offered to come see it and potentially purchase it. The boat was shown, no sale was made. Is this truly "unethical" and "lacking of moral character" ? What if i had simply not returned the phone call? This reminds me of the folks who, when they find a wrongly marked product (when I worked at radio shack in high school) thinks that the store is lacking in character if I don't sell that $80 dvd player for the $8.97 it says on the nearest price tag, which happens to be for the dvd player cleaning kit next to it?(The sad thing was that, after calling corporate and whining for long enough, they sometimes got their way and the monstrous discounts)

 

[Ctskip]

Talk is cheap

Something must be exchanged in order to fulfill a simple contract between two people. Ethics seems to have taken a back seat and lying is accepted. I didn't inhale and I didn't have sex with that woman. It's all commonly accepted today. For some, who are "old school", where a hand shake and verbal contracts work just fine. Thats Ok as long as the two doing business are from the same school. If they aren't, then it becomes painfully clear that there must be a written/signed contract between the two parties. Period. Ethics, is a ideal platform, from a time long past. It seems to have faded away. Just my two cents on selling. Money talks and BS walks. Keep it up, Ctskip And I did stay at a Holiday Inn in last night

 

[jviss]

likewise, TOny

" You aint the hallway monitor.The only stuffy old fart around here is you.You are standing here on your own self rightous bandwagon and BTW, who elected you 'hallway monitor'?"And who appointed you moderator?Seriously, it's almost comical for you to call me self-righteous, when you and those like you in this thread are the ones being narrow mindedly moralistic. It's just not that serious a deal, and quite common, for ads for things to come and go, sellers change their mind, or other circumstances to change that result in an offer to sell being withdrawn.

 

[Tom Spohn]

Rick

Actually the contract is binding when the offer and acceptance is agreed to. The contract itself must contain "consideration" (ie. something of value)for whatever is being transferred in the contract. This means that if you sell something for $0 and no other consideration such as barter, labor or whatever, it is not a contract. What you may be thinking of is how to decide if the constract is being performed. If the goods to be transferred are transferred in accordance with the terms and conditions and the "consideration" is tendered then the contract is being performed.Jvis, I am not sure who pushed your button and I am sorry your response was so angry. I personally think Brian made a very common mistake and none of us should throw stones at him. But just because something is commonly done does not make it right. Many people would keep too much change accidently returned to them when buying something--but it is not right. Brian's action was not illegal, but IMO is unethical. As I stated before it is very OK to state up front that the buyer may reject any and all offers. It is also OK to set a price or "best offer". It is OK to solicit offers with the stated objective of finding out where the market is. The key to staying ethical is to let the people you deal with know what your intentions are. This is not just in buying and selling. Don't you prefer to know the true intentions of the people you deal with?

 

[Liam]

Defending Brian

jviss, it sounds to me like you are defending Brian because you would do the same thing that he did. Due to the complexity of the society that we live in and the anominity that it affords us there are many people who feel that any behavior is okay because the odds are that they will not have to live with their actions.Brian asked for opinions and he got them. Did you expect that everyone would just say, "Gee Brian, you were right to do that. Screw the other guy. Maybe you can get $50 dollors more than you advertised the boat for. You don't owe any body any thing. You are a private seller so laws of commerce don't apply to you. Integrety is for grizzled old goats who live in the past. Honesty and 'treating people the way you would like to be treated' is for suckers. It is more important that you get every penny that you possibly can."

 

[jviss]

Not exactly

I defended Brian because the custom and expectations of the forum in which he placed the ad are casual; and, some folks who responded here applied the very highest standards of business ethics and conduct to this, an in fact hold him just as responsible as if he had executed a contract, and then went the additional step of insulting him and impugning his character. The reaction was far too extreme and mean spirited, and self-righteous far out of proportion to the circumstances.

 

[Old Salt]

I see this all the time in Real Estate

I've seen where a house or property was listed at a certain price and then they quickly get offers for that price. (obviously priced under market) Then others show up and say they'll pay more and it quickly gets into a bidding war. The first person who "says" they'll pay the offer price is not the one who gets the property. More has to happen - earnest money exchanged and some sort of contract signed It has been held up in court many times. If a contract to purchase has been signed and money put down then it becomes more of a binding transaction (even then......???)This is a personal transaction of a personal item - It is not a retail store where Walmart is selling an item for $100 and decided not to sell itI read the details Brian wrote of what transpired and it does not even come close to "scammers" territory. I think those that wrote that have their boats heeled over way too much. It is "sellers remorse" no more no less and all of us have to beware that this happens.(if he did this for 6 months and kept allowing & inviting people to see the boat then it would boarder on morally defunct)

 

[abe]

I love it when people start name calling...

..usually its because they have a difficult time defending their position.Funny, when someone downloads music from the internet the first time, or a hit man kills his first target, or a spouse cheats...take your choice, they are very nervous that first time. The second time, well they are not quite as anxious. By the 100th time...its okay. They have now become a new person with a new set of values. What is my point? Well, there are those out there who have done it soooo many times...they think its okay. Everyone else must be a bunch of self rightous individuals who are too harsh...and they should not be posting since they do not agree with their points of view. Look in the mirror and ask yourself if you like what you see....abe

 

[higgs]

My boat is for sale

Nice traditional cruising boat for sale: $50,000 - unless I get an offer by tomorrow, in which case the price goes up to $60,000. If someone offers me 60k then I will probably want 70k.

 

[Joe]

Brian was simply testing the marketplace

Nothing wrong with that. Until a valid contract is created between parties... Brian can do what ever he wants.... including not selling his boat to someone for reasons other than money. (he suspects criminal use, for instance, or he may feel the buyer is going to be a bad neighbor for his buddies in the marina.) He is free to raise or lower the price at his discretion. Haven't any of you dropped your price when the car or house or boat doesn't sell. Then why can't you raise it if you get a flurry of buyers... this is a free market economy, last I heard. In a hot market it is common to get multiple offers at full price, and it is normal practice to counter each offer separately on varying points... one of which may be raising the price. Others might be deposit amount, down payment, financing, strength of credit, etc. etc. etc. I have been part of many multiple offer situations where the successful buyer was chosen for reasons other than highest offer price.As far as "offer and acceptance"... even though the seller may "offer" his boat for sale... it is the buyer who is actually making the initial offer and the seller is the "acceptee". If the seller makes a counter-offer, the roles reverse and he becomes the offeree, the buyer the acceptee, and so on.Now... after a contract is created, the buyer is in control. As long as he proceeds with diligence during the contingency period the seller must perform or the buyer can walk. It is much easier for the buyer to back out of a contract of sale than the seller.So, relax Brian, your integrity is not sullied. You were simply testing the marketplace.

 

[Liam]

Joe is right!

There MUST be a legal contract signed by both parties. If anything is slightly out of order a lawyer should be contacted and become involved immediately.The seller must always maintain complete control. Insist on a sizable (non-refundable) deposit. If the buyer does anything even slightly questionable the deposit will be forfitted. You are then free to move on to the next offer and deposit.Verbal agreements, handshakes, or promises mean absolutely nothing (ask any lawyer). You can say whatever you want to and then deny it later. This is common business practice and is completely acceptable.The court system is there to be exploited. Use it whenever possible. Hire contingency lawyers, you have nothing to loose and everything to gain.If you are very clever and sneaky you can actually make a sizable suplimental income this way.Going to court is the ultimate win-loose game. Crushing the opponant is not only fun... it is profitable.Trust me.

 

[Brian D]

Compared to yacht broker ethics...

Brian is a saint.

 

[abe]

Always best to compare yourself...

to those who are better than you....it may give you a goal to improve yourself as a person. abe

 

[Cap'n Ron]

Bait & Switch

I don't like to get into quibbles and it is undignified to 'defend' ones opinion when others have a legitamate right to have their own opinion, Republican vs Democrats, Catholics vs Protestant.An opinion is a personal proerty and cannot be 'wrong' as far as the individual is concerned.I agree with Abe, but methinks he & I are from another generation: tip your hat and say "Good Morning", stand whenever a lady enters the room, keep your word above all (regardless of $$ or what is leagally binding), use turn signals (not as a weakness, but as a courtesy and safety communique', and have respect for others; this means being tolerant of their point of view.I would NOT do it myself, but if you see it from his point of view, 1) He is within his rights, not breaking the law of the land.2) Everyone can use a bit more money. 3) This is commonplace, as stated, in the real estate business thesedays.It is NOT like a car dealer "Bait & Switch" illegal procedure, he may just figure he made a mistake and HE is the one getting taken to the cleaners...in his view, I can see that. I still owuld not change the price, but see no reason to condem this fellow...there are much worse things going on to judge folks for.

 

[Persy]

this is not complicated.

Man says he is offering a boat for sale at a stated price.Actually, he was not offering that boat for sale at that price, but testing waters, or decided not to do what he said he would, sell the boat for that price.Lie, dishonest, unethical, whatever you want to call it, deception for personal gain and no other purpose is wrong. Not a capital offense, but definitely and without any question wrong.Sentence shall be that seller will offer the boat for sale again in 6 months and end up taking much less than 1st offer (fate works this way)(I can imagine if the local broker would pull something like this how the crowds would call for the gallows....)now, this is settled, let's move on.....cheers!

 

[HukilauMike]

I can see why

I just re-read the original post, and I can see why some folks think Brian is a little ethically challenged. You could easily read that Brian welched on a deal. However, if you read all of his posts, including the clarifications containing more facts about what actually happened, I don't think he did anything remotely unethical, let alone immoral or illegal. Brian puts an ad up on Craig's list, thinking to sell his boat at a particular price. Someone sees it, and calls him. While on that call, Brian has second thoughts and says, sorry, that's not the price, its more. The buyer says, ok, I'm still interested. Brian takes the buyer on a sail, and the buyer says, well Brian, nice boat but no thanks.Now, if I were the buyer, I might be miffed at the suddenly higher price, but I have invested nothing more than a call at that point. Perhaps a Brian might be considered inconsiderate in posting the ad with that price without sufficiently researching a fair value. And certainly, if he left the ad up with the wrong price, he runs the risk of annoying more people, or even of trying to generate interest under false pretenses. But that is not what happened here. And come on folks, its not like Brian was purposefully trying to generate more calls by posting a deliberately undervalued price; nor was he misrepresenting his mint condition Hinckley for sale at $5000. Someone responded to the ad, Brian corrected his price then and there, the buyer was still interested and decided on his own it was worth a trip for him to see the boat at that price, and the buyer decided not to buy it. Hardly grounds for calling someone unethical.