We have owned our present boat for almost four years. She is a Pearson 323 1980 and in pretty good shape. The mast step needs replaced,engine overheats some and the stove frig and interior cushions etc could use work. We want to go cruing and the pearson has shown herself to be very confortable. BUT she is small and has limited storage. We are coming to a time to decided to fix up and sail or sell and buy something else. We have about $33,000 in our present boat and may be able to put another $30K in another boat. we can get a Catalina 36 or 34 in that price range. But looking at the specs they aren't as seaworthy as the pearson. Our cruising plans are pretty modest around the Gulf of Mexico up the east coast at least to the Chesapeak Bay and around the Bahamas. We don't plan to "live Aboard" once we finish cruising we'll probably move ashore and have a 22' boat for local lake sailing. One day we say sell one day sail. The Pearson is paid for and fairly comfortable. Once we complete the cruise we could just keep her. Another thought is that if we really like cruising we'd take the equity in our house and buy a newer larger boat and continue to cruise and forget about buying a new house. Any thoughts???
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Better the devil you know...
Or angel! It makes sense to me to keep what I know well and love, even if it's not ideally sized. We can accomodate... Look at the twenty-something footers that have circumnavigated! Also, the bigger the boat, the more physical effort to sail her, the more complex the systems, the more expensive to maintain and, if you use marinas, the more expensive to park. Also, if you procrastinate now, you might never leave because never will everything be perfect. Better to just go. Good luck and have a wonderful cruise!
Or angel! It makes sense to me to keep what I know well and love, even if it's not ideally sized. We can accomodate... Look at the twenty-something footers that have circumnavigated! Also, the bigger the boat, the more physical effort to sail her, the more complex the systems, the more expensive to maintain and, if you use marinas, the more expensive to park. Also, if you procrastinate now, you might never leave because never will everything be perfect. Better to just go. Good luck and have a wonderful cruise!
Bigger boat
I recently moved up from a 28' S2, to a Seidelman 37. There are of course lots of advantages to the bigger boat. It certainly is much more comfortable when the going starts to get rough, but by far the biggest advantage to me is the space. Not just more storage, but the extra walk around space does not give you the crowded feeling of the smaller boat. The sleeping accomodations are also much more enjoyable on the larger boat.
I recently moved up from a 28' S2, to a Seidelman 37. There are of course lots of advantages to the bigger boat. It certainly is much more comfortable when the going starts to get rough, but by far the biggest advantage to me is the space. Not just more storage, but the extra walk around space does not give you the crowded feeling of the smaller boat. The sleeping accomodations are also much more enjoyable on the larger boat.
Knowing your boat is very important cruising
I think the knowledge you have of a boat you have owned for many years should be given a very high priority when going cruising. I would never think of going to sea in a boat recently purchased. It is asking for trouble. A boat has lots of quirks both positive and negative and the knowledge of them is what will keep you safe. Fix up the Pearson and go. Room should not be an issues unless your family is huge. While cruising I ran into a family of four on a 27ft sailboat from England. They thought they had plenty of room.
I think the knowledge you have of a boat you have owned for many years should be given a very high priority when going cruising. I would never think of going to sea in a boat recently purchased. It is asking for trouble. A boat has lots of quirks both positive and negative and the knowledge of them is what will keep you safe. Fix up the Pearson and go. Room should not be an issues unless your family is huge. While cruising I ran into a family of four on a 27ft sailboat from England. They thought they had plenty of room.
The best boat..
...is the boat you have. Yes, if you manage to sell your Pearson for the $33K you have into it and add in the $30K you estimate your various projects will cost, you could spend the $63K on a Catalina 36, but not a new one. Instead, you will have a boat that is somewhat larger, but which also needs thousands of dollars in projects before she'll be ready for cruising, and you won't know which projects are needed! You know your current boat intimately: How she sails, the noises she makes, her strengths and shortcomings. That knowledge will do far more for your peace of mind than an extra couple of feet of hull length, and cruising is all about peace of mind. If you don't have that peace of mind, you can't relax, and if you can't relax you're not cruising. I've cruised the Bahamas, the east coast, all the great lakes, the Saint Laurence and Nova Scotia with four people and a cat in a Catalina 36. You don't say how many you are but it sort of sounds like you're a couple: A 323 isn't huge, but its not outrageously small, either. Another thing to consider is cruising costs as a function of boat size: Stay in a marina? A 36 costs $8/night more than a 32. Need a new sheet? 1/2-inch costs more than 3/8 and you need more feet of line, too. etc. etc. Not a huge difference for any one thing, but added up day after day for months it can be a BIG number. Cruising means you have boat expenses every day rather than just summer weekends so the accumulated differences are bigger. One other thought: Cruising is often described as "Doing boat maintenence in exotic places" However many projects you do before you leave, there will be others....Sort your project list into "absolutely get done before we can leave" and "other" Do what you have to, and then go! You may find that renting a car to explore some fascinating area, or a wonderful dinner ashore, etc. become more important than some of your projects: After 7000 miles, I still have some projects from my original list yet to do! Cruising will change you and thus what you want to do to/with your boat.
...is the boat you have. Yes, if you manage to sell your Pearson for the $33K you have into it and add in the $30K you estimate your various projects will cost, you could spend the $63K on a Catalina 36, but not a new one. Instead, you will have a boat that is somewhat larger, but which also needs thousands of dollars in projects before she'll be ready for cruising, and you won't know which projects are needed! You know your current boat intimately: How she sails, the noises she makes, her strengths and shortcomings. That knowledge will do far more for your peace of mind than an extra couple of feet of hull length, and cruising is all about peace of mind. If you don't have that peace of mind, you can't relax, and if you can't relax you're not cruising. I've cruised the Bahamas, the east coast, all the great lakes, the Saint Laurence and Nova Scotia with four people and a cat in a Catalina 36. You don't say how many you are but it sort of sounds like you're a couple: A 323 isn't huge, but its not outrageously small, either. Another thing to consider is cruising costs as a function of boat size: Stay in a marina? A 36 costs $8/night more than a 32. Need a new sheet? 1/2-inch costs more than 3/8 and you need more feet of line, too. etc. etc. Not a huge difference for any one thing, but added up day after day for months it can be a BIG number. Cruising means you have boat expenses every day rather than just summer weekends so the accumulated differences are bigger. One other thought: Cruising is often described as "Doing boat maintenence in exotic places" However many projects you do before you leave, there will be others....Sort your project list into "absolutely get done before we can leave" and "other" Do what you have to, and then go! You may find that renting a car to explore some fascinating area, or a wonderful dinner ashore, etc. become more important than some of your projects: After 7000 miles, I still have some projects from my original list yet to do! Cruising will change you and thus what you want to do to/with your boat.
moving up
going from a 32 to a 36 anything may not be worth the increased investment. The boat you have is likely fully depreciated whereas a newer 36 anything will depreciate, by comparison, more. It sounds like you'll either be putting money into the current boat mast step, engine and interior either directly or in a reduced selling price whic might make the decision easier but then there is no telling what a newer boat will require regardless of how much due diligence you do before purchase. Ultimately, these tend to be emotional decisions unless you are an accoutant or engineer (I'm the latter) in which case the decision should be easy
going from a 32 to a 36 anything may not be worth the increased investment. The boat you have is likely fully depreciated whereas a newer 36 anything will depreciate, by comparison, more. It sounds like you'll either be putting money into the current boat mast step, engine and interior either directly or in a reduced selling price whic might make the decision easier but then there is no telling what a newer boat will require regardless of how much due diligence you do before purchase. Ultimately, these tend to be emotional decisions unless you are an accoutant or engineer (I'm the latter) in which case the decision should be easy
I would move up
you only live once! If it makes you happy do it. There are lots of good boats in your price range.
you only live once! If it makes you happy do it. There are lots of good boats in your price range.
Seems like your 323 needs some $ put into it.
I hope this isn't insulting, but I wonder if you can get your $33k for your Pearson in its present condition. New frig, new stove new cushions is probably pushing 5k for the next owner. The diesel, if it has overheated a lot, could be ready for a rebuild so there is another few thousand. A new mast step - hard to say. To be honest, if it were me, I would take a pass on a boat needing these upgrades in this price range as there is plenty out there that don't. A quick search on the web brought up a number of these boats at around 30k, including a fresh water one in Michigan for 39k, with only 900 hours on the diesel and new upholstery. See what a broker thinks you could get. If I have insulted, please accept my apologies in advance.
I hope this isn't insulting, but I wonder if you can get your $33k for your Pearson in its present condition. New frig, new stove new cushions is probably pushing 5k for the next owner. The diesel, if it has overheated a lot, could be ready for a rebuild so there is another few thousand. A new mast step - hard to say. To be honest, if it were me, I would take a pass on a boat needing these upgrades in this price range as there is plenty out there that don't. A quick search on the web brought up a number of these boats at around 30k, including a fresh water one in Michigan for 39k, with only 900 hours on the diesel and new upholstery. See what a broker thinks you could get. If I have insulted, please accept my apologies in advance.
Yep she does need some money
The diesel runs fine but does overheat in warm water. This winter in cooler water she did not overheat. We have sailed about 4 years with little investment so a few thousand is to be expected. It would be a no brainer if the boat didn't sail well and wasn't comfortable at sea. She has a nice motion. What would really suck is to buy another boat that strains the budget and then that boat require some expensive repairs. My wife likes the ideal of extra cash to do stuff while on a cruise. I don't want to be cruising living on beans and rice. HAving marina and restaurant money might more than compensate for a smaller boat. We spent seven days on the boat in March. One night we stayed in a hotel and the hot bath and clean sheets felt nice. Whenwe spent almost two weeks on the boat last spring a shower at a marina was nice. In eleven days we spent 3 nights at a marina. That seems like a reasonable formula spending roughly 25% of the nights at a marina and the rest out on the hook. Maybe an experienced cruiser will give their percent at the dock.
The diesel runs fine but does overheat in warm water. This winter in cooler water she did not overheat. We have sailed about 4 years with little investment so a few thousand is to be expected. It would be a no brainer if the boat didn't sail well and wasn't comfortable at sea. She has a nice motion. What would really suck is to buy another boat that strains the budget and then that boat require some expensive repairs. My wife likes the ideal of extra cash to do stuff while on a cruise. I don't want to be cruising living on beans and rice. HAving marina and restaurant money might more than compensate for a smaller boat. We spent seven days on the boat in March. One night we stayed in a hotel and the hot bath and clean sheets felt nice. Whenwe spent almost two weeks on the boat last spring a shower at a marina was nice. In eleven days we spent 3 nights at a marina. That seems like a reasonable formula spending roughly 25% of the nights at a marina and the rest out on the hook. Maybe an experienced cruiser will give their percent at the dock.
Keep your boat..
Simple math shows roughly seventeen 323's currently available on YachtWorld ranging from 19k to 39k with the majority being in the high 20's to low 30's. Many of these boats are in very good condition with major upgrades & extensive equipment lists. My guess, from your description, is realistically an asking price of closer to 28k to 29k. After survey and negotiations your walk away is 25k to 26k. Now the clincher is the 10% brokers fee that you need to subtract from your 25k or 26k leaving you with closer to 22.5 k or 23k. Unfortunately in the condition you state 33k is most likely dream money. It's currently a buyers market not a sellers market and boats needing serious work sit & sit. A C-34 or C-36 does not really have that much more storage space. I owned a C-36 and it had very little storage for a 36 footer. Keep your boat, it's a good boat, throw some money at it and go cruising..
Simple math shows roughly seventeen 323's currently available on YachtWorld ranging from 19k to 39k with the majority being in the high 20's to low 30's. Many of these boats are in very good condition with major upgrades & extensive equipment lists. My guess, from your description, is realistically an asking price of closer to 28k to 29k. After survey and negotiations your walk away is 25k to 26k. Now the clincher is the 10% brokers fee that you need to subtract from your 25k or 26k leaving you with closer to 22.5 k or 23k. Unfortunately in the condition you state 33k is most likely dream money. It's currently a buyers market not a sellers market and boats needing serious work sit & sit. A C-34 or C-36 does not really have that much more storage space. I owned a C-36 and it had very little storage for a 36 footer. Keep your boat, it's a good boat, throw some money at it and go cruising..
Fun with Numbers
Tom, I was a bit surprised when you wrote that your Pearson had better ratios than either C34 or 36 so I ran the numbers myself. Do I have it correct that your boat displaces 12,800 pounds, ballast is 4,500# and beam is 10.2 feet? If these numbers are correct, then they explain a lot of things. What is tweaking the ratios is a combination Pearson’s heavy displacement and narrow beam. The wide (11.75’) beam of my Catalina 34 is what is giving me a capsize screen of 1.99 (compared to the Pearson’s 1.69). This number still allows me to compete in the Transpac and Hobart if I so desired (I have the Pacific Cup Planning packet at home right now). But the added beam gives me loads more room down below (I’ve looked at both cabin layouts and you will gain tons of useable space just by adding two feet). The Pearson is at the high end of the “cruising category” and the C34 on the high side of the racing category for of the Displacement to length ratio numbers (275 v. 201). If the displacement numbers are correct, your Pearson out weighs my C34 by nearly 900 pounds. The downside to the heavy displacement is when I look at things like Sail area to Displacement, Moment of Inertia, Ballast to Displacement, and Velocity Ratios, the Pearson comes across quite pedestrian. The upshot is the C34 might have a more “lively” feel than your Pearson. But you will also be getting much more room in a boat that will sail faster and perform better in practically all conditions. If stability and such is important, you mayl want to refine your search and look at the Cal 34s and Islander 36’s. They both will both have the same high ratios, but you will still be suffering the same problems of pedestrian performance and (relative) lack of space below. As you probably already know, the wind and sea conditions in San Francisco and Northern California are quite challenging to say the least. Our afternoon winds are normally in the mid twenties which make stiff boats quite desirable. For what it’s worth, the C34’s, 36’s as well as the Cal 34 and Islander 36’s are all quite popular, don’t stay on the market long and command premium pricing. All are quite popular as cruisers here and all have participated in the Pacific Cup at one time or another. Plenty of variety to choose from, but remember that ratios will only get you so far, the rest is up to your experience and what is important to you. Good luck in your search!
Tom, I was a bit surprised when you wrote that your Pearson had better ratios than either C34 or 36 so I ran the numbers myself. Do I have it correct that your boat displaces 12,800 pounds, ballast is 4,500# and beam is 10.2 feet? If these numbers are correct, then they explain a lot of things. What is tweaking the ratios is a combination Pearson’s heavy displacement and narrow beam. The wide (11.75’) beam of my Catalina 34 is what is giving me a capsize screen of 1.99 (compared to the Pearson’s 1.69). This number still allows me to compete in the Transpac and Hobart if I so desired (I have the Pacific Cup Planning packet at home right now). But the added beam gives me loads more room down below (I’ve looked at both cabin layouts and you will gain tons of useable space just by adding two feet). The Pearson is at the high end of the “cruising category” and the C34 on the high side of the racing category for of the Displacement to length ratio numbers (275 v. 201). If the displacement numbers are correct, your Pearson out weighs my C34 by nearly 900 pounds. The downside to the heavy displacement is when I look at things like Sail area to Displacement, Moment of Inertia, Ballast to Displacement, and Velocity Ratios, the Pearson comes across quite pedestrian. The upshot is the C34 might have a more “lively” feel than your Pearson. But you will also be getting much more room in a boat that will sail faster and perform better in practically all conditions. If stability and such is important, you mayl want to refine your search and look at the Cal 34s and Islander 36’s. They both will both have the same high ratios, but you will still be suffering the same problems of pedestrian performance and (relative) lack of space below. As you probably already know, the wind and sea conditions in San Francisco and Northern California are quite challenging to say the least. Our afternoon winds are normally in the mid twenties which make stiff boats quite desirable. For what it’s worth, the C34’s, 36’s as well as the Cal 34 and Islander 36’s are all quite popular, don’t stay on the market long and command premium pricing. All are quite popular as cruisers here and all have participated in the Pacific Cup at one time or another. Plenty of variety to choose from, but remember that ratios will only get you so far, the rest is up to your experience and what is important to you. Good luck in your search!
George my P323 not that dead
In early March it was pretty windy with gusts to 25-30 and we went out to play in the lake. Another Tom went out with his Catalina 34. We were sailing with full canvas not the big genny but a 110 and the C34 was reefed. We were easily outrunning the C34 and he was heeling almost out of control in the gusts. My P323 has some wether helm but it is controllable. I can't remember ever having her round up into the wind. Actually there were four boats out that day and our Pearson looked good. I like the extra room in a C34 but it doesn't handle weather as well as a P323 at least with my friend at the helm. I haven't met any really bad weather but everything so far the Pearson has handled well. 12-15' waves to the vicous chop that developes in Mobile Bay with a strong north or south wind. 50' bridges are a problem. My mast is 45' I think that the C34 is 49' and that might be a problem with several bridges along the gulf and up the Tenn-tom waterway. I want more room and storage but out at sea motion comfort and safety are probably more important. Right now I am thinking keep the pearson.
In early March it was pretty windy with gusts to 25-30 and we went out to play in the lake. Another Tom went out with his Catalina 34. We were sailing with full canvas not the big genny but a 110 and the C34 was reefed. We were easily outrunning the C34 and he was heeling almost out of control in the gusts. My P323 has some wether helm but it is controllable. I can't remember ever having her round up into the wind. Actually there were four boats out that day and our Pearson looked good. I like the extra room in a C34 but it doesn't handle weather as well as a P323 at least with my friend at the helm. I haven't met any really bad weather but everything so far the Pearson has handled well. 12-15' waves to the vicous chop that developes in Mobile Bay with a strong north or south wind. 50' bridges are a problem. My mast is 45' I think that the C34 is 49' and that might be a problem with several bridges along the gulf and up the Tenn-tom waterway. I want more room and storage but out at sea motion comfort and safety are probably more important. Right now I am thinking keep the pearson.
Decisions. Decisions.
Knowing when to sell your boat factors not loss or gain but opportunities you want not necessarily need. The time to part with a boat comes heeled on emotion for new experiences. Even the United States Navy cannot find the perfect boat! Sounds like you are ready to decide, to move on, to find a new place in the sea. A crew together is stronger than a boat becoming weaker. Boats are only vessels inspiring souls to touch new winds and courses changing lives. We trade often tools of our crafts. Success lies in molding new charters of talent and purpose. Choice begats change. Good Luck!
Knowing when to sell your boat factors not loss or gain but opportunities you want not necessarily need. The time to part with a boat comes heeled on emotion for new experiences. Even the United States Navy cannot find the perfect boat! Sounds like you are ready to decide, to move on, to find a new place in the sea. A crew together is stronger than a boat becoming weaker. Boats are only vessels inspiring souls to touch new winds and courses changing lives. We trade often tools of our crafts. Success lies in molding new charters of talent and purpose. Choice begats change. Good Luck!
A few more things to consider
1. If the plan were to cruise the coast and the Bahamas for few months or even a year and then go live on land, this would be a no brainer. Fix up the boat you have and go. If you don't like it, quit. 2. But you want to hold out the possibility that "if we really like cruising we'd take the equity in our house and buy a newer larger boat and continue to cruise and forget about buying a new house." There is no good reason to make this trip unless you're going to be flexible and go slowly and leisurely. 3. #2 means that 90% of the time your boat is not going to be sailing anywhere - it's going to be at anchor - or you will greatly increase your expenses by staying in marinas or (gasp) hotels. You're not going to like living on the boat you have because you've already identified space and storage as issues. And lack of personal liveaboard comfort level on a particular boat is one of the single biggest reasons that people abandon cruising. 4. The vast majority of people cruising the Bahamas and points south are doing so in common mass produced boats. Beneteaus, Catalinas, and Hunters are perfectly suitable for this kind of sailing - slow island hopping/coastal cruising. 5. Don't know where you are or when you plan to go. But, instead of a 2000 NM cruise, if possible, I would suggest taking your existing boat across the Gulf stream to the Bahamas for a month. Have a flexible itinerary - your goal should simply be to wind up wherever conditions and comfort level take you in the time you have available. This will give you a much better idea of what "paradise" is really like and what you really want.
1. If the plan were to cruise the coast and the Bahamas for few months or even a year and then go live on land, this would be a no brainer. Fix up the boat you have and go. If you don't like it, quit. 2. But you want to hold out the possibility that "if we really like cruising we'd take the equity in our house and buy a newer larger boat and continue to cruise and forget about buying a new house." There is no good reason to make this trip unless you're going to be flexible and go slowly and leisurely. 3. #2 means that 90% of the time your boat is not going to be sailing anywhere - it's going to be at anchor - or you will greatly increase your expenses by staying in marinas or (gasp) hotels. You're not going to like living on the boat you have because you've already identified space and storage as issues. And lack of personal liveaboard comfort level on a particular boat is one of the single biggest reasons that people abandon cruising. 4. The vast majority of people cruising the Bahamas and points south are doing so in common mass produced boats. Beneteaus, Catalinas, and Hunters are perfectly suitable for this kind of sailing - slow island hopping/coastal cruising. 5. Don't know where you are or when you plan to go. But, instead of a 2000 NM cruise, if possible, I would suggest taking your existing boat across the Gulf stream to the Bahamas for a month. Have a flexible itinerary - your goal should simply be to wind up wherever conditions and comfort level take you in the time you have available. This will give you a much better idea of what "paradise" is really like and what you really want.
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