To or not To

[jssailem]

Consider mindfulness more than intelligence.

While a very sound statement, I am not sure a 4 year old can apply either in the situation under consideration.

I watched a bright and aware 4 year old, wearing a life jacket, walk straight off the dock into the water.. Walking so fast to get to the boat she could not stop. Grand ma was right there, reached down grabbed her clothes and yanked her back up on the dock. Swept her up into her arms disappeared into the boat and after a rinse down, a few hugs, the little red head popped back up on deck smiling. But not ready to go back on the dock immediately.

They learn, well mostly the bright ones, that some experiences are scary - not to be repeated.

I would want any emergency tool to be automatic and not rely on the individual to activate. I want all little persons to be monitored on the boat by a parent until they demonstrate survival capability. Preferably the parent is the mother. Most mom's have a Momma Bear power to protect.

 

[thinwater]

While a very sound statement, I am not sure a 4 year old can apply either in the situation under consideration.

I watched a bright and aware 4 year old, wearing a life jacket, walk straight off the dock into the water.. Walking so fast to get to the boat she could not stop. Grand ma was right there, reached down grabbed her clothes and yanked her back up on the dock. Swept her up into her arms disappeared into the boat and after a rinse down, a few hugs, the little red head popped back up on deck smiling. But not ready to go back on the dock immediately.

They learn, well mostly the bright ones, that some experiences are scary - not to be repeated.

I would want any emergency tool to be automatic and not rely on the individual to activate. I want all little persons to be monitored on the boat by a parent until they demonstrate survival capability. Preferably the parent is the mother. Most mom's have a Momma Bear power to protect.

Maybe.

My wife broke an ankle very badly when my daughter was ~ 8 months. She also needed a knee replacement soon after that. As a result, there was never a time when my daughter could not outrun my wife. The solution was to teach my daughter to never run away and to never run or move quickly in exposed situation. She accepted this easily, after a few corrections. As a result, she never ran on a dock, on the boat, or near a cliff, or near a road. We held hands around trafic, but honestly, didn't need to. There was no chance whe would bolt or even wander. Not sayin' she was not active and athletic. I made sure of that. She just learned certain things from day one.

I suspect this is unusual. But parents have to know their kids.

 

[TomY]

I've heard a few different opinions here in the marina. I feel in my opinion that you should tether. To be honest I never have in the past sailing experiences which was 20 plus years ago. With a child and wife I think much differently these days, and safety is my number 1 priority.

If you are going to tether in at the helm what type of tether do you suggest such as length (short/long) and what brand do you recommend? How would you tether yourself in at the helm? I'd rather purchase a tether than make one as some have suggested. And what are your experiences?

Whenever I read 'what are your experiences' when it comes to safety onboard with a family, I realize there weren't that many rules that fit our family. We mostly made our own as we went.

You could start with tethers all around and that might be the best for you and yours (and your boat-sailing), as they grow. I applaud an encourage you to find what works and posting your findings (I'm interested).

I couldn't say after having sailed with our kids from infants to adults, what would work for others.

We used netting early on but that felt like trusting an invisible fence for a beloved dog next to a highway. As parents, we didn't use tethers generally (mostly coastal sailing), but we were (still are) always careful on deck.

No device gave us total piece of mind, that only came from constant supervision on the water. As they grew, we slowly let them go more and more on their own. That nagging invisible fence feeling, almost, went away.

Now on their own, the nagging feeling is almost gone, but still lingers. Today I'm glad they have a healthy caution and sense about them both on and off the water.

I believe life in general is more dangerous than when we are/were sailing as a family, but the water is both beautiful and dangerous.

On guard as parents for years, we always breathed a sigh of relief when we were all together on the sailboat, casting off the lines. It was a safer place in life, which is risky.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

We have a rule on our boat that nobody leaves the cockpit underway without wearing a PFD, and I wear one always while underway and comply with the law which requires a PFD for minors (under 12) on deck. I rig jack lines and tether when leaving the cockpit after dark or in rough conditions, but mostly try not to leave the cockpit under those circumstances. (All lines led to cockpit).

 

[Kings Gambit]

I suspect there are few among us who have gone “overboard”, or nearly so, at the end of a tether, or otherwise. We generally opine the dynamics of it all via anecdote, or perhaps observation, rather than experience. Actually, there’s a book by Tom Lochhaas titled Suddenly Overboard that recounts case histories of sailors going overboard although it’s mostly focused on the fatal consequences of going overboard w/o a PFD donned.

Getting swept off a sailboat with high freeboard, as we have on the boats of today, by seas is not something that easily occurs unless, perhaps, in very rough, confused, high seas, as in a storm. Tripping, and then falling overboard or down onto the boat itself is far more likely. This happens when people are moving about the boat not holding on to it. The rule when moving about is the familiar “one hand for you, one hand for the boat”, etc. One simply does not fall off the boat when firmly holding onto it.

Of course, preventing MOB by any and all means is of critical importance to sailors. Tethers should be regarded and applied as the “backstop” in certain situations. I see very few folks, hardly any in fact, actually wearing them, OR a PFD, “routinely” while sailing. I admit I do not, routinely, even when crossing the San Pedro Channel. Lochhass, however, makes the case for PFDs, I think.

 

[jssailem]

Very nicely said @TomY .

All one can do is to research, decide on a plan, follow the plan, if it works keep following it. If not reevaluate and start over. I, for one, have stumbled through the process and have fortunately had more successes than failures. I have tried to learn from both experiences and others (reading, history, stories). There is no perfect answer for all.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

I see very few folks actually wearing them, OR a PFD, “routinely” while sailing.

In benign conditions my wife and I wear manual release belt-pack type PFDs. (I also wear an AIS MOB beacon and handheld VHF. Offshore also a PLB). I carry 4 of these aboard and show guests how to use them. They are much more comfortable than anything over the shoulder. This make compliance easy.
However, the trade-offs for this comfort are: 1) no integral harness, 2) wearer must be a swimmer and must be concious, 3) swimmer must pull the inflation cord or blow to manual inflate, 4) swimmer must be able to put the vest over their head to wear properly. This last item may require the wearer to let some air out after CO2 inflation if they inflate too firmly to place over the head, so I tell guests and open the pack to show them how to do that if needed (by pushing pinky finger into valve at end of the mouth-inflation tube).

Mustang Survival Manual Inflatable Belt Pack PFD

I wear a full vest with integrated harness at night and in storm conditions when I tether.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Here's some additional reading on the issue. See post #11 and below, including post #29.

KG

Solo overboard

I plan to do some more solo sailing mostly because i know no one else that sails besides my family, question is has any of you sailors ever gone over board while solo and have to watch your boat sail away or know someone who has!

forums.sailboatowners.com

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

I sail mostly single hand lately- I have a self inflating pfd with harness. I have a hard point just outside the cabin entrance, and a tether that allows me to go to the mast, and below. It's short enough that I can't go off the stern, and the Bimini frame and life line stanchions prevent going overboard from the cockpit I always hook up when in bigger water. also rig jack lines when offshore

So far, two crossings of the gulf Of Mexico, two crossings of the Gulf Stream, and a sail, on a crewed boat, to Mexico- 5 days offshore. We always had harnesses on

seems a tad silly to me to sail outside without.

this very short video shows my PFD and harness. We were about 30 miles or so out in the GOM, on way to Florida. This before I started sailing alone less than a minute