To or not To
- Thread starter pumpkinpie
- Start date
We have four Wichard folding pad eyes as strong points in the cockpit. One on either side of the wheel well aft of the helm; and, One on either side of the cockpit wheel so you can hook-up as before one comes out of the companionway and work or sit behind the dodger.
Generally I have a short 3' tether and a longer 6' tether. That way can stand at the center of the helm behind the wheel and move to one side with BOTH tethers attached. As I move forward, I generally have the short tether on the windward side or as close to the center line of the boat as I can.
You don't want to leave the boat. Your odds become a lot worse outside the lifelines.
Generally I have a short 3' tether and a longer 6' tether. That way can stand at the center of the helm behind the wheel and move to one side with BOTH tethers attached. As I move forward, I generally have the short tether on the windward side or as close to the center line of the boat as I can.
You don't want to leave the boat. Your odds become a lot worse outside the lifelines.
There are a number of issues with tethering, if done right it will save your life, if done incorrectly you will die quickly. For a good analysis, subscribe to Affordable Adventure Cruising it is only about $20 a year. John Harries has written extensively about tethers and jack lines. Practical Sailor has also written about tethers and jack lines.
In our cockpit we have 3 (soon to be 4) folding padeyes, 2 on either side of the wheel and 2 forward near the companion way. The tethers stay attached to the pad eyes and we move from tether to tether. It is easier to clip the tether to harness than it is to clip the tether to the pad eye. Our cockpit is small enough that a tether is almost always within reach.
In most conditions a tether in the cockpit may not be necessary except at night and on watch alone. This is because there is enough metal surrounding the cockpit to keep you on board in almost all conditions except knockdowns. Look around the cockpit, there are railings and Bimini supports that leave very little space for an adult to fall through.
Tethers are most valuable when it is necessary to get out of the cockpit and go forward. Here's where jack lines come into play. The jacklines should be run so that the line is more than a tether length away from the gunwale. This will prevent a person from going over board. Going overboard while tethered can be deadly. Harnesses (and PFDs with harnesses) will tow the MOB face down and force water into the MOB's face. This results in drowning very quickly. John Harries writes a great deal about how to run jack lines. Well worth the read.
An alternative PFD with harness is available in the UK that tows a MOB on their back. Take a look at the videos on the Team O website. We just bought 2 of the jackets. They do not count towards the USCG carriage requirements as they have not been certified by the USCG. Sailing Uma recently demonstrated the PFDs on their YouTube channel. Read the description to get a discount code.
Kong tethers are highly rated and reasonably priced tethers. A critical part of the tether is the carabiner that connects to the pad eye or jack line. Many of the carabiners can easily bind and release or deform and disconnect from the pad eye or tether. Practical Sailor has demonstrated this. The Kong clips are more secure. In addition to 2 Wichard tethers we have 2 Kong tethers, one double with a 6' and 3' tether. A quick release shackle at the harness end is important so that you can easily release the tether from the harness if necessary.
As you do more research you will quickly learn that what I have written here just scratches the surface of the tether/harness/jackline issue. Read more and stay safe.
In our cockpit we have 3 (soon to be 4) folding padeyes, 2 on either side of the wheel and 2 forward near the companion way. The tethers stay attached to the pad eyes and we move from tether to tether. It is easier to clip the tether to harness than it is to clip the tether to the pad eye. Our cockpit is small enough that a tether is almost always within reach.
In most conditions a tether in the cockpit may not be necessary except at night and on watch alone. This is because there is enough metal surrounding the cockpit to keep you on board in almost all conditions except knockdowns. Look around the cockpit, there are railings and Bimini supports that leave very little space for an adult to fall through.
Tethers are most valuable when it is necessary to get out of the cockpit and go forward. Here's where jack lines come into play. The jacklines should be run so that the line is more than a tether length away from the gunwale. This will prevent a person from going over board. Going overboard while tethered can be deadly. Harnesses (and PFDs with harnesses) will tow the MOB face down and force water into the MOB's face. This results in drowning very quickly. John Harries writes a great deal about how to run jack lines. Well worth the read.
An alternative PFD with harness is available in the UK that tows a MOB on their back. Take a look at the videos on the Team O website. We just bought 2 of the jackets. They do not count towards the USCG carriage requirements as they have not been certified by the USCG. Sailing Uma recently demonstrated the PFDs on their YouTube channel. Read the description to get a discount code.
Kong tethers are highly rated and reasonably priced tethers. A critical part of the tether is the carabiner that connects to the pad eye or jack line. Many of the carabiners can easily bind and release or deform and disconnect from the pad eye or tether. Practical Sailor has demonstrated this. The Kong clips are more secure. In addition to 2 Wichard tethers we have 2 Kong tethers, one double with a 6' and 3' tether. A quick release shackle at the harness end is important so that you can easily release the tether from the harness if necessary.
As you do more research you will quickly learn that what I have written here just scratches the surface of the tether/harness/jackline issue. Read more and stay safe.
Is it an open transom?
Have you got 2 reefs in?
Is it dark?
Are you alone?
... All things which effect the decision.
I hate the traditional tethers which are rivited together, are difficult to undo and jam on the jack stays. The mountainering carabiner is the best option for me.
Have you got 2 reefs in?
Is it dark?
Are you alone?
... All things which effect the decision.
I hate the traditional tethers which are rivited together, are difficult to undo and jam on the jack stays. The mountainering carabiner is the best option for me.
I have this for going forward on a jack line. It as one leg, elastic stretch, the other fixed, to Scoot your way forward in heavy seas. Clamp on by clamp on.
You should always stay with your boat unless you capsize. Then you have pull releases to escape.
The Picture of the Girl has the full gear but only a single tether.
Amazon.com : Kong MOB Tether, double, ISAF compliant : Sports & Outdoors
Jim...
PS: Check the "customers also bought" section for the harness.
You should always stay with your boat unless you capsize. Then you have pull releases to escape.
The Picture of the Girl has the full gear but only a single tether.
Amazon.com : Kong MOB Tether, double, ISAF compliant : Sports & Outdoors
Jim...
PS: Check the "customers also bought" section for the harness.
We keep a Kong tether on board, and have padeyes in the cockpit for attachment. The tether is not long enough to allow you to fall overboard (which is kind of the whole point). But the only time we have ever used it was on a couple overnight sails where one of us was below sleeping. Under these circumstances, the tether is mandatory, per the Admiral.
But we don't have jacklines. On a 22' boat, it is just about impossible to set them up in such a way that you can't possibly go overboard. And if my body can possibly cross over the lifeline, I feel like the benefits of being tethered in the first place are questionable at best.
So our rule is, no one goes forward when alone on deck. At night, no one goes forward at all unless we're hove to (or becalmed).
But we don't have jacklines. On a 22' boat, it is just about impossible to set them up in such a way that you can't possibly go overboard. And if my body can possibly cross over the lifeline, I feel like the benefits of being tethered in the first place are questionable at best.
So our rule is, no one goes forward when alone on deck. At night, no one goes forward at all unless we're hove to (or becalmed).
Going under the lifelines is a bigger problem than going over them. If you go over the life line, your head is likely to be well above water, however if you go under the lifeline your head can be in the water and that's when you drown. Going under the lines can happen if you go up the leeward side and slip.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 23,505
With @dlochner. We have read the same research and I follow the same plan.Sailing solo in water that is 53 degrees means certain death if you fall in, so I tether. I wear a dry suit when conditions dictate. I use the center jackline configuration and multiple tethers. I move carefully and deliberately about the boat.
No guarantees but a higher percentage of safety.
While we're talking about falling overboard, it is worth mentioning the advantages and disadvantages of Personal Locator Beacons (PLB).
PLBs are good for 2 things, making it easier to find the POB's body and as a cheaper substitute for an EPIRB. The problem with PLBs is response time. A PLB sends a signal to a satellite which then relays the signal to a search and rescue organization. The SAR organization then has to look up the signal in the data base to see who belongs to the device, attempt to notify the emergency contact and notify the CG. The CG then has to dispatch a boat or aircraft to locate the source of the signal. All of this takes time. It is not inconceivable for the process to take an hour or more before a SAR team can locate the POB, let alone rescue the person.
A better option is a locator beacon that is AIS based, to my knowledge there are 2 on the market worth considering one made by Ocean Signal and one made by McMurdo. The Ocean Signal MOB1 is superior.
When activated the MOB1 immediately sends out a distress signal via DSC to the mother vessel notifying crew that the a person has gone overboard. Simultaneously it gets a GPS fix and sends out an distress signal on AIS notifying all vessels within about 5 miles that there is someone in the water who doesn't belong there. With AIS any of the vessels nearby including the mother ship, can locate and get to the POB quickly. Time is of the essence when retrieving a POB, the response time is measured in minutes not hours. The vessel that is in the best position to rescue a POB is the one the POB fell off.
PLBs are good for 2 things, making it easier to find the POB's body and as a cheaper substitute for an EPIRB. The problem with PLBs is response time. A PLB sends a signal to a satellite which then relays the signal to a search and rescue organization. The SAR organization then has to look up the signal in the data base to see who belongs to the device, attempt to notify the emergency contact and notify the CG. The CG then has to dispatch a boat or aircraft to locate the source of the signal. All of this takes time. It is not inconceivable for the process to take an hour or more before a SAR team can locate the POB, let alone rescue the person.
A better option is a locator beacon that is AIS based, to my knowledge there are 2 on the market worth considering one made by Ocean Signal and one made by McMurdo. The Ocean Signal MOB1 is superior.
When activated the MOB1 immediately sends out a distress signal via DSC to the mother vessel notifying crew that the a person has gone overboard. Simultaneously it gets a GPS fix and sends out an distress signal on AIS notifying all vessels within about 5 miles that there is someone in the water who doesn't belong there. With AIS any of the vessels nearby including the mother ship, can locate and get to the POB quickly. Time is of the essence when retrieving a POB, the response time is measured in minutes not hours. The vessel that is in the best position to rescue a POB is the one the POB fell off.
Sounds like a reasonable assumption .Only problem is that in the Great Lakes sometimes you are the only person for many. many miles .
No difference between Eprib and PLB
Ask Ken: What is the difference between an EPIRB and a PLB? .Before I bought my PLB ,I researched the differences . No reputable source claimed they worked differently
No difference between Eprib and PLB
Ask Ken: What is the difference between an EPIRB and a PLB? .Before I bought my PLB ,I researched the differences . No reputable source claimed they worked differently
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I have a PLB and when I got it used the "test" mode. Got a response in 20 seconds after pressing the button. So the satellite link is super fast. The bureaucracy after it? Hope I never have to find out.
Do not confuse the satellite EPIRBs and PLBs with the new generation of AIS based locators. They are very different critters. The article sited was written before the AIS devices were available.
It is true that on the Great Lakes there is very little boat traffic and even fewer boats with AIS, but that is not the issue. The issue is being able to be located by the vessels that are closest to you, which is the boat you just fell off. Second, any AIS equipped vessel that is in the vicinity will see and have directions to the POB. With EPRIBs and PLBs, only the satellites see you until a vessel or aircraft equipped to receive the homing signal arrives near by. Boats in the vicinity will be blissfully unaware of a EPIRB or PLB alert until the CG announces it on the VHF some hour or so later.
If you are in life raft in the middle of the ocean or Great Lakes, an EPIRB is what you want. If you just fell off your boat, the AIS Locator is what will save your life. A PLB will just make it easier to find the body.
Here's a link to the Ocean Signal MOB1:
MOB1
The world’s smallest AIS MOB device with integrated DSC. It is compatible with even the most compact inflatable life-jackets for rapid local rescue.
oceansignal.com
Hey,
My thoughts on these matters:
What type of sailing do you do or plan on doing? Unless you are sailing in real lousy weather and at night I just don't see the need for tethers.
Personally I use a tether twice a year - when I race in the Around Long Island Regatta (and spend two nights at sea). The rules dictate using a tether if you leave the cockpit at night. Since we are always doing sail changes, tacking and gybing, I wear my harness and use the tether when i'm out of the cockpit.
I have been sailing since 2003, and racing since 2005. I have done some overnight cruises. I have never seen a harness and tether used except when doing the ALIR. I have raced on J44, J30,, J29, J80, C&C 34, 35, 36, 110, 115, O'day, Catalina, and a bunch of other boats. I've done the American Yacht Club spring and fall series, Off Soundings spring and fall series and bunch of other races as well. I've sailed in calms and storms. Again, I have never seen a harness used except at night in the ALIR.
I do think that if I were to be sailing for days and weeks at a time in all sorts of conditions I would use a tether more often. I just don't see the need to use one when in the cockpit, or in good weather. On the boats I sail on the cockpit is well protected and I don't see how you go overboard.
I think I am safety conscious. I almost always wear a PFD (the only exceptions are on a fully crewed boat in very light wind). I also carry a VHF with me (SH 890 w GPS / DSC). My PFD has a strobe attached. To be honest, For the type of sailing *I* do I think a tether is just not necessary. Most of the time I am sailing in the Long Island Sound. The water is not that cold. there are usually other boats in the vicinity. If I'm a race boat, one of the crew should notice that I've gone overboard and they can start the COB rescue. If I'm by myself on my boat, then I the DCS alert on my VHD will reach another boater and they can come and get me. I should be able to stay alive long enough for that to happen. When I'm sailing alone I am VERY careful any time I have to leave the cockpit (which typically only happens when I drop the mainsail).
Barry
My thoughts on these matters:
What type of sailing do you do or plan on doing? Unless you are sailing in real lousy weather and at night I just don't see the need for tethers.
Personally I use a tether twice a year - when I race in the Around Long Island Regatta (and spend two nights at sea). The rules dictate using a tether if you leave the cockpit at night. Since we are always doing sail changes, tacking and gybing, I wear my harness and use the tether when i'm out of the cockpit.
I have been sailing since 2003, and racing since 2005. I have done some overnight cruises. I have never seen a harness and tether used except when doing the ALIR. I have raced on J44, J30,, J29, J80, C&C 34, 35, 36, 110, 115, O'day, Catalina, and a bunch of other boats. I've done the American Yacht Club spring and fall series, Off Soundings spring and fall series and bunch of other races as well. I've sailed in calms and storms. Again, I have never seen a harness used except at night in the ALIR.
I do think that if I were to be sailing for days and weeks at a time in all sorts of conditions I would use a tether more often. I just don't see the need to use one when in the cockpit, or in good weather. On the boats I sail on the cockpit is well protected and I don't see how you go overboard.
I think I am safety conscious. I almost always wear a PFD (the only exceptions are on a fully crewed boat in very light wind). I also carry a VHF with me (SH 890 w GPS / DSC). My PFD has a strobe attached. To be honest, For the type of sailing *I* do I think a tether is just not necessary. Most of the time I am sailing in the Long Island Sound. The water is not that cold. there are usually other boats in the vicinity. If I'm a race boat, one of the crew should notice that I've gone overboard and they can start the COB rescue. If I'm by myself on my boat, then I the DCS alert on my VHD will reach another boater and they can come and get me. I should be able to stay alive long enough for that to happen. When I'm sailing alone I am VERY careful any time I have to leave the cockpit (which typically only happens when I drop the mainsail).
Barry
The best way to keep your 4 year old on board is life line netting. This will prevent him from sliding under the lifelines and keep him safe when at anchor or at the dock. I'm not sure you can teach the 4 year old to operate the MOB1. The good news about him, is his size. At 30 or 40 pounds he will be easy to grab and pick out of the water.
Defender Search
Most of the time you're correct. When sailing conditions are relatively calm, a tether is not necessary. This really begs a bigger question, how are risks and consequences managed. For most sailing a good pair of shoes are probably the best safety equipment because they keep you from slipping on deck and from stubbing your toes. From my perspective prevention is always the best course of action.
Well, they've already taught the kid his multiplication tables. The MOB shouldn't be too much more difficult.
Very cool, we had my son taught his multiplication tables around that age too. By 6 he was flying Hobby Grade Radio Control Airplanes in the 45-55" wing span. At 16 he is over 4.0 GPA and already has 1 full academic scholarship to University Alabama Huntsville.
A 4 year old could learn by rote how to activate a MOB1, however, a 4 year old who has just fallen off a boat that is sailing away is more likely to panic than to think calmly about turning on a MOB1.
I sailed with my daughter from day one. We also went rock climbing and eventually ice climbing together. I also guided some. Saw some dumb kids and some dumber adults.
It is much less about whether the person is smart and far more about whether they knows how to stay within their limits. My daughter was reasonably bold, but more to the point, she was never reckless. She thought about what she was doing and knew when to back off. Dad only gave safety commands that were obviously needed, so they were always followed.
Consider mindfulness more than intelligence.
It is much less about whether the person is smart and far more about whether they knows how to stay within their limits. My daughter was reasonably bold, but more to the point, she was never reckless. She thought about what she was doing and knew when to back off. Dad only gave safety commands that were obviously needed, so they were always followed.
Consider mindfulness more than intelligence.