I have to replace the headsail on a C27. Currently it is equiped with a Hood single line furler that is in pretty good shape (710SL I think). I have a pretty decent used 150% genoa but its hanked on. Should I remove the furler for this good sail. Some around the marina insist they'd never use a furling headsail and others say I'd be crazy to go without. What are the advantages and disadvantages of using either type of sail?
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Make the Switch
My understanding is that having a sailmaker modify your hanked sail for use on your furler is a pretty easy (read: Cheap as far as boating stuff goes) task. It won't cost more than a phone call to find out. My uneducated guess is under $300. Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
My understanding is that having a sailmaker modify your hanked sail for use on your furler is a pretty easy (read: Cheap as far as boating stuff goes) task. It won't cost more than a phone call to find out. My uneducated guess is under $300. Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
Sail Care
I just got a quote from Sail Care to modify our 150 for roller furling. Quote was $8 / foot luff and $6 / foot sunband (foot and leech). For our Hunter 25.5 150 genny, it worked out to be $508. If you include cleaning and re-resining, it works out to be over $700 for conversion. A new roller furling 150 from CDI costs a little over $700. So it seems to be a wash. For a C27, the same ratios probably apply.
I just got a quote from Sail Care to modify our 150 for roller furling. Quote was $8 / foot luff and $6 / foot sunband (foot and leech). For our Hunter 25.5 150 genny, it worked out to be $508. If you include cleaning and re-resining, it works out to be over $700 for conversion. A new roller furling 150 from CDI costs a little over $700. So it seems to be a wash. For a C27, the same ratios probably apply.
To Bill
Bill, I'd shop around...that seems VERY high, but then again, you're also including a lot of services in there that are extra (resin, wash). Our local Doyle loft only charged me $250 to replace the entire sun shield, repair the clew & replace the leech line. This was for a sail with about 28' of luff. I can't imagine it would be more to replace the luff, but I could be wrong. Go to www.doyle.com & get a quote. They (at least the Marblehead Loft) does excellent work. Allen Schweitzer s/v Falstaff C-30 Hull# 632
Bill, I'd shop around...that seems VERY high, but then again, you're also including a lot of services in there that are extra (resin, wash). Our local Doyle loft only charged me $250 to replace the entire sun shield, repair the clew & replace the leech line. This was for a sail with about 28' of luff. I can't imagine it would be more to replace the luff, but I could be wrong. Go to www.doyle.com & get a quote. They (at least the Marblehead Loft) does excellent work. Allen Schweitzer s/v Falstaff C-30 Hull# 632
Furl, or Hank
Hanked on sails require you to go forward to "furl" (lower them to the deck), but you have more control over sail shape, and trim so they should perform better. The roller furling is all about convenience, ease of putting the sail away. The bigger the boat, the more important this becomes.
Hanked on sails require you to go forward to "furl" (lower them to the deck), but you have more control over sail shape, and trim so they should perform better. The roller furling is all about convenience, ease of putting the sail away. The bigger the boat, the more important this becomes.
Not all 150s should be converted
Unless you are planning to only fly your genny fully unfurled off the roller, you should buy a new sail. Most sailors that put a 150 sail on a roller furler expect to be able to shorten sail when the wind pipes up; they will partially roll the sail in and use the genny as a smaller genny or even a jib. However, gennys that were made to be hanked on are not constructed to withstand that kind of use. Its not just that they need foam in the foot to keep their shape; stress along the entire body of the sail is drastically altered when the sail is flown smaller, and unless it is designed and sewn properly, the sail will fail. So unless you are prepared to keep your existing sail fully rolled out or in, you should buy a new one. Should you just chuck it all and go back to hanked on sails? I installed my CDI furler a couple of years ago, and I will never go back to a hanked-on jib. Don't make the choice to move to hanked on sails unless you have experienced both systems.
Unless you are planning to only fly your genny fully unfurled off the roller, you should buy a new sail. Most sailors that put a 150 sail on a roller furler expect to be able to shorten sail when the wind pipes up; they will partially roll the sail in and use the genny as a smaller genny or even a jib. However, gennys that were made to be hanked on are not constructed to withstand that kind of use. Its not just that they need foam in the foot to keep their shape; stress along the entire body of the sail is drastically altered when the sail is flown smaller, and unless it is designed and sewn properly, the sail will fail. So unless you are prepared to keep your existing sail fully rolled out or in, you should buy a new one. Should you just chuck it all and go back to hanked on sails? I installed my CDI furler a couple of years ago, and I will never go back to a hanked-on jib. Don't make the choice to move to hanked on sails unless you have experienced both systems.
I prefer hanked on for sailing
If you don't mind going forward hanked on sails work better. On my last boat I had three headsails and used the one that best fit conditions. Several times I had to go drop the genny when the wind came up. Standing on the bouncing bow being beat up by a genny is not for everyone. But usually it went pretty well. On good days I didn't even get the sails wet. My wife never performed this task!!Now we have a roller headsail and most of the time it is OK. It is really great just to pull a line to roll it up. But our boat likes a headsail and the partly rolled up genny performs very poorly. I am thinking of changing my sailing to having a jib on the roller and using a asymetrical spinnaker in lighter breezes. The only problem is that our dinghy is on the deck and makes it very hard to fly the spinnaker. Whenever we plan on using the spinnaker we leave the dinghy at the dock. Tom
If you don't mind going forward hanked on sails work better. On my last boat I had three headsails and used the one that best fit conditions. Several times I had to go drop the genny when the wind came up. Standing on the bouncing bow being beat up by a genny is not for everyone. But usually it went pretty well. On good days I didn't even get the sails wet. My wife never performed this task!!Now we have a roller headsail and most of the time it is OK. It is really great just to pull a line to roll it up. But our boat likes a headsail and the partly rolled up genny performs very poorly. I am thinking of changing my sailing to having a jib on the roller and using a asymetrical spinnaker in lighter breezes. The only problem is that our dinghy is on the deck and makes it very hard to fly the spinnaker. Whenever we plan on using the spinnaker we leave the dinghy at the dock. Tom
To furl or not....
I wrote an article for "Sailnet" about this subject some time ago (link below). At the time, I had a great boat with a lot of hank-on sails in the inventory. It was an easy boat to sail and raising or lowering the sails was no big deal. Since that time, I've gotten another boat that has furling --- and I love it. I'm not sure if I'm just getting older and lazier, but furling and unfurling from the helmsman's seat (I single hand a lot) really beats going out on to the foredeck to raise or lower a sail. But the biggest advantage to furiling that I come to appreciate is the ability to reef a headsail in a blow. Previously, I had to either just drop the headsail if I was overpowered, or drop the sail and hank on another one. This was not fun, and was somewhat dangerous, when doing this alone in high winds. My bottom line is that furling makes sailing a lot more fun and much safer even if hank on sails may give better performance. It's a worthwhile tradeoff.
I wrote an article for "Sailnet" about this subject some time ago (link below). At the time, I had a great boat with a lot of hank-on sails in the inventory. It was an easy boat to sail and raising or lowering the sails was no big deal. Since that time, I've gotten another boat that has furling --- and I love it. I'm not sure if I'm just getting older and lazier, but furling and unfurling from the helmsman's seat (I single hand a lot) really beats going out on to the foredeck to raise or lower a sail. But the biggest advantage to furiling that I come to appreciate is the ability to reef a headsail in a blow. Previously, I had to either just drop the headsail if I was overpowered, or drop the sail and hank on another one. This was not fun, and was somewhat dangerous, when doing this alone in high winds. My bottom line is that furling makes sailing a lot more fun and much safer even if hank on sails may give better performance. It's a worthwhile tradeoff.
another option
i had a similer dilemma...i had 1 good hanked on sail and wanted another, newer genny. did i go with furling for the new sail? what i did was wuss out and rigged a downhaul with hanked on sails. figured i could always have them modified for a furler if i didn't like the downhaul system. its not quite as elegant but it doesn't jam either! its pretty cheap and easy to rig and see if you like a it. you still have to go forward to change sails but this can be done a little more at your convenience.
i had a similer dilemma...i had 1 good hanked on sail and wanted another, newer genny. did i go with furling for the new sail? what i did was wuss out and rigged a downhaul with hanked on sails. figured i could always have them modified for a furler if i didn't like the downhaul system. its not quite as elegant but it doesn't jam either! its pretty cheap and easy to rig and see if you like a it. you still have to go forward to change sails but this can be done a little more at your convenience.
Sunbands themselves are expensive,
I just had one replaced on a Genny and I believe it was $350. I love roller furling, but I'm old, lazy, retired, and the speed difference between hanked on and furled, etc. means little to me.
I just had one replaced on a Genny and I believe it was $350. I love roller furling, but I'm old, lazy, retired, and the speed difference between hanked on and furled, etc. means little to me.
Best of both worlds.
Kiwi Slides are available from www.anzam.com and encompass the best of both worlds. I sewed mine on myself in about 1/2 hour. They allow a hanked (remove the hanks) sail to be used on any furler. If you are willing to drop the sail when you get to the dock, no sacrificial cover is needed. So, conversion is very cheap. The points on sail shape are well taken. But, these slides make sail changes on a furler as easy as hanked sails.
Kiwi Slides are available from www.anzam.com and encompass the best of both worlds. I sewed mine on myself in about 1/2 hour. They allow a hanked (remove the hanks) sail to be used on any furler. If you are willing to drop the sail when you get to the dock, no sacrificial cover is needed. So, conversion is very cheap. The points on sail shape are well taken. But, these slides make sail changes on a furler as easy as hanked sails.
DIY
Chris Burti's recommendation of Kiwi slides should definitely be considered. The cost for the slides was a bit more than the luff tape for me (I had to cut the sail down so I would have to reinforce the luff anyway) so I ended up getting luff tape from signetmarine (real cheap and good quality). Brian at Anzam is extremely helpful and I would have gone with the kiwi slides if I didn't need to cut down the sail. Only thing to consider with the slides is you do have to feed each slide into the foil and can't let the prefeeder do it all for you. If you decide to do the conversion yourself, let me know. I did mine and it was a little trickier than I thought but it wasn't bad and the cost for everything (sunbrella suncover, luff tape, thread, spray on adhesive, and webbing) was under $100. Just used my grandma's old singer sewing machine and it worked fine. I had previously never sewn anything. -Brent
Chris Burti's recommendation of Kiwi slides should definitely be considered. The cost for the slides was a bit more than the luff tape for me (I had to cut the sail down so I would have to reinforce the luff anyway) so I ended up getting luff tape from signetmarine (real cheap and good quality). Brian at Anzam is extremely helpful and I would have gone with the kiwi slides if I didn't need to cut down the sail. Only thing to consider with the slides is you do have to feed each slide into the foil and can't let the prefeeder do it all for you. If you decide to do the conversion yourself, let me know. I did mine and it was a little trickier than I thought but it wasn't bad and the cost for everything (sunbrella suncover, luff tape, thread, spray on adhesive, and webbing) was under $100. Just used my grandma's old singer sewing machine and it worked fine. I had previously never sewn anything. -Brent
I have a dual track
I have a dual track forstay and I believe I have the best of both worlds on my Pearson 26. Just slip the beed in the track and haul away! Goes up quick and slides down fast. Nice flat shape too. Points up very well. I always worried about it pulling out but after 4 years and some almost knock down gusts, all is well. The dual track is so you can put the next sail up and then pull the last sail down and not loose any wind. Great in racing! David
I have a dual track forstay and I believe I have the best of both worlds on my Pearson 26. Just slip the beed in the track and haul away! Goes up quick and slides down fast. Nice flat shape too. Points up very well. I always worried about it pulling out but after 4 years and some almost knock down gusts, all is well. The dual track is so you can put the next sail up and then pull the last sail down and not loose any wind. Great in racing! David
question for david....
is that a dual track furler or a dual forestsy. i have considered a dual forestay.... william
is that a dual track furler or a dual forestsy. i have considered a dual forestay.... william
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