To buy or to charter/rent

ggrizzard · Dec 7, 2019

If you charter you can get several different experiences in different boats and you know the costs going in.
If you buy a boat you're stuck with maintenance (less time to sail, trust me), repairs
(some could be major), dockage/dry storage fees (which can be $600 or more per month as there are few cheap dry storage yards in Florida) and no variety in the type or brand/model boat you're using.
If you knew, for sure, the boat you want to spend your time on well maybe....
Otherwise I recommend the "Try it before you buy it" plan.

leo310 · Dec 7, 2019

You'll be looking at $3500-$4500 per week to rent now I don't know what your looking for but moorage could be let say $6000 per year insurance $800 if not more. Now the boat may need new sails $5000-$10000 so for let say a $85,000 35 foot sailboat, the first year you'll blow your budget.

dlochner · Dec 7, 2019

Most of the major chartering companies have programs where you buy the boat, you get some income to pay the mortgage on the boat, and you get some weeks for personal use. The company charters the boat, pays for upkeep, and makes money on the charter. After 5 or so years you can take the boat as your own (proabably with a mortgage), sell it, or place it in a second tier charter program. This may or may not make sense for you.

smokey73 · Dec 7, 2019

Unless you are really going to use the heck out of the boat (like many of our seasoned poster do) you may want to consider Chartering (or Charter company ownership). If you Charter, you can go to different geographic regions and the only thing you have to "move" is you and your suitcases. On the other hand, if owning a boat is on your bucket list then by all means go ahead and do it if you can afford it. Buying a boat is seldom a financial money maker. It isn't about the money, its about the experience. Take it from me - here is my story.

From the time I was knee high to a grasshopper I went with my Father to boat shows and looked at boats (live aboard powerboats not sailboats though) He always dreamed of owning one but there were 5 kids in our family and he never felt we could afford it. When I went off to the Naval Academy and he didn't have to think about paying for my college (I'm the youngest) he had the money but he never pulled the trigger. He died of a heart attack at 62 two years after I graduated (6 years younger than I am now). He never owned the boat. I had 3 heart attacks, 3 stents and 5 way Cardiac Bypass at age 47! We chartered several times and I started looking at sailboats. Everytime I "ran the numbers" it just didn't make sense to buy rather than charter. When I found my future boat (the Hunter 40.5) my wife and I flew up to New Rochelle to look it over. We decided it was the boat for us in our budget but, again, when I ran the numbers I told her "it just doesn't make sense" to buy. Her response to me was "BUY THE D&%N BOAT!" We almost named her that. Anyway, it still doesn't make financial sense but buying a boat is often an emotional decision, not a financial one. I don't regret it one bit but I am sure I'm not using it enough to justify its costs. HOWEVER, it is going to be 70 degrees Monday here in Beaufort SC and I'm going sailing. Couldn't do that if I Chartered. I wouldn't change anything except try to use it more than I do. So to quote Mark Twain, “Twenty years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”

If its chartering, chartering ownership or outright buying a boat, go for it.

dlochner · Dec 7, 2019

Buying a boat never makes financial sense. It is a desire of the heart.

If your heart desires it, the brain will make it work.

DArcy · Dec 7, 2019

smokey73 said:
Anyway, it still doesn't make financial sense but buying a boat is often an emotional decision, not a financial one.

Ha, that's an understatement. I looked at chartering vs. buying as well over the last few years. I couldn't justify the cost of buying over chartering but I ended up buying anyway. It was most certainly an emotional decision. I saw the boat, I wanted the boat, I bought the boat. Then again, I like just tinkering on boats as much as sailing so that was a big part of the decision form me as well. It is a form of therapy.

Kings Gambit · Dec 7, 2019

A Caribbean charter(s) versus sailing a boat during winter in FL that you would own are two COMPLETELY different things altogether. I lived and boated in FL for 11 yr; plus I've chartered in the Caribbean as I'm sure others here have done as well. They would hardly be comparable alternatives

. Unless your'e thinking to buy a boat in FL, sail it to the Caribbean, then back for storage in FL over a "month or so" each season? I love it!! As my grandmother used to say, "ignorance is bliss."

Sorry. Just kidding. But really--where do you wish to sail? It's hard to give a helpful answer to your question as put forward. But people here in CA do sail to Mexico (e.g., Sea of Cortez and farther) in the fall (Nov) and return home for the summer (by May), etc., in consecutive years. So, I dunno, the distances would be about the same, etc.

JoeWhite · Dec 8, 2019

I decided to buy after I rented a few times and found them to be smelly and poorly maintained. On a good sailing weather no boat was available since they were already reserved.

Tally Ho · Dec 8, 2019

I like to tinker and maintain my own boat almost as much as sailing her...I chartered a few times before I purchased a boat, but I’m glad I bought a boat.

Greg

dLj · Dec 8, 2019

What I am not seeing is the long range plan. I'm also not seeing your current sailing ability.

Are you interested in only sailing for the month each winter for the next few winters then move on to next adventure in some other hobby? Is this possibly exploring spending more time sailing as interest may, or may not, develop?

What are your current sailing levels? Are you both experienced sailors? One of you and not the other? Neither of you with much experience?

The answers to those questions would help me give a better opinion.

dj

OK - while I was writing the not above, you posted again with actually what I suspected - you are exploring to become a liveaboard.

Disregard the first part - charter a few different boats and decide what you like. It's almost a no-brainer....

DonRS · Dec 9, 2019

It’s a great feeling to be able to walk on your own boat any time that you want. Sometimes we go out for the day and sometimes a couple of hours.

Yes, there are costs but at least for now the benefits of ownership have outweighed the cost.

D Snyder
Just Chill’in
Catalina 30
Deale MD

jssailem · Dec 9, 2019

@sbcwolff For a month vacation? Would you buy a house then use it one month a year for a vacation or rent a VROB in your desired "this years vacation" location?

The idea that a boat is a profit center in your financial future is just not viable for most boat owners. Sure there are folks who buy and sell boats. And some of them make a profit in this endeavor. These are usually known as boat brokers.

In financial terms, I look on my boat much like a biker looks at a motorcycle that they spend time shining - polishing - riding, or a car owner looks at restoring a car from his youth into a hot rod that he takes out on the street to show the neighbors what he enjoys. It is a hobby expense for most owners. Nothing wrong with any of this. Some folk spend there money traveling, others on art work, so spending money on a boat makes perfect sense.

But leaving you boat 1600 miles away in a marina to be used 1 month of of the the year feels like a bit extravagant. I would charter a boat before I took that path.

Chartering.. It entails a number of issues. You have to be qualified to bare boat the vessel or take along a Captain to do the sailing (and maybe a cook to do the meal prep). Getting qualified can cost unless you can provide acceptable evidence that you possess the sailing skills and the pocket book to cover losses to the boat.

Still once qualified I suspect the opportunity to choose a newish boat and the trouble free access to the boat on a planned schedule would have a lot of marks in the PRO Charter column of a balance sheet.

For our last charter, we found the getting to the South coast (in this case Houston TX) from the Pacific NW was reasonable. Getting to the port where our boat was located (Belize) cost again as much. This was a whole lot cheaper than trying to fly to St Lucia for a one way charter to Granada. That said the cost and experience of chartering a $750K plus boat for a 9 day sail in the tropics was worth every penny.

dlochner · Dec 9, 2019

After reading this thread and the advice proffered, let me offer a somewhat contrarian opinion.

Sell the Mac 26
Buy a 30-34 foot classic plastic boat
Sail the 30+ footer on the Great Lakes, taking extended 2 week or more trips.
Take a late season charter in the Caribbean. (The best prices are in hurricane season, the second best prices are during the shoulder season.

Let me explain my thinking.

Sailing and maintaining a "big" boat is different from sailing a smaller, trailerable boat. Spend the time on a bigger boat to learn as much as you can about taking care of diesels, electrical systems, heads, rigging and the various systems that are not on a Mac 26. Handling is also different, keel boats with inboards handle differently.

Spending time on a boat that better approximates the kind of boat you want to live aboard will give you a better sense of what's important to you on your live aboard boat. If the boat is near you and you can spend weekends on it as well as a longer vacation you'll end up with a much better idea about the life style and how suited you are to it.

Week long charters in the Caribbean or elsewhere (Gulf Coast, Great Lakes, PNW, the Keys, etc.) will let you experience different boats and learn what is important to you and the compromises you will need to make.

After doing these things, if you still want to follow the dream, go for it. Put the boat on the market and start looking for your live aboard boat armed with a lot of knowledge and experience. You will make better and more informed decisions. Try to structure your finances so that you can buy your dream boat even if you haven't sold the in-between boat.

Remember, this is all supposed to be fun (even when you have the 'I Hate Boats' moments, which you will have).

DrJudyB · Dec 9, 2019

My advice would be to take a couple of charters in the Caribbean before committing to owning a boat in or near the Caribbean.

You can book a cabin in a skippered boat through a sailing school, rather than the whole boat. Cabins on nice boats start at $3500 for two through places like sailing schools. You can find nice 10-day cruises in the caribean for $4000 per cabin, plus a $100 per person/per day for provisioning for breakfast and lunch on board and dinner out.

Judy

Kings Gambit · Dec 10, 2019

My 1st boat was 20 ft: the second 30 ft, and the third, the one we own now, 38 ft. It took 16 yr to do that, and we’ve owned the Bavaria now for 15 yr. So, 31 yr of boat ownership in two great sailing states, FL & CA, where we have lived and worked. I never thought I’d own a boat like me Bavaria for such a long time. Luck, really, as it happened. But I never imagined us selling out to become full time cruisers or live-aboards. Some people do it, and appear to love it, and do love it. They write books about it! For others, it doesn’t work out as imagined, etc. I’ve always appreciated coming back to the house after time on the water; brief or long.

Chartering is an excellent way to introduce yourself to the various aspects of sailing. By the time we bought the Pearson 30 we had ”chartered” (some via a watercraft program) the following, for at least overnight but often longer, sometimes more than once: Cat 22, Paceship 23, Cape Dory 28, Ranger 29, Pearson 34, Beneteau First 35s5, and with friends—Oceanis (Beneteau) 500–for the Windward Islands. By the time we had bought the Bavaria 38, we had chartered with friends: Morgan 32, C&C 38, Catalina 42 & Beneteau 42 (my actual favorite of the bunch-nice boat!). Since buying the Bavaria we’ve chartered with friends the Catalina 380, Bavaria 44, and most recently—Hanse 495. Looks like we are on our way to a 45 to 50 footer!

; but there is no plan for one. Just looking at history. In any event, by doing stuff like that, you know when to “pull the trigger” and for what, etc.

JRT · Dec 11, 2019

Sounds like a solid plan @sbcwolff. We spent a couple of years with our O'Day 25 and moved to a Catalina 310 this year. It was a lot to absorb moving from the simple O'Day to the complex Catalina. We want to cruise but have teenagers so that is 5-10 years till they are on their own. The plan is to stick with the 310 till then and take her out to her first salt water bath in the gulf and around FL to the islands. If you can squeeze a 31' on your mooring look at a 310, it is like a bigger boat built for couples to cruise on. The V birth is a queen bed and stateroom with privacy, that sold my wife.

TheCruisingExperience · Dec 31, 2019

sbcwolff said:
My husband and I are looking to cruise for a month or so each winter (maybe start off by doing a week or two in the beginning) but looking for advice on whether we should bare boat something in the Caribbean or buy a boat that we store in Florida and avoid rental fees. If buying we would be interested in maybe renting our boat out (but we have no idea what that would entail insurance/liability wise, so that might not shake out... just a thought)
Our budget would be 80-100k, so any advice on sturdy and dependable boats would be nice!
What does storage run? To dry dock while not in use? In MN it is usually around 1k to splash and store....

$80k-$100k is plenty of money to buy a well-maintained monohull in the Caribbean; our Hunter 450 cost $130K back in 2010 and can easily be had for $100k today and become an excellent platform to enjoy the Caribbean.

But to answer your question regarding chartering for two weeks or so... yes, it will definitely be much cheaper to charter and enjoy than to maintain and store a boat for the other 50 weeks of the year. Besides... you'll end up spending time preparing and putting away your boat for most of the two weeks you'll spend on it if you decide to own.

There's also another much less expensive option/way to gain some cruising time... befriend someone who already has a boat and volunteer your crewing services and agree to pay for the food. Please send me a private message if you'd like to discuss ownership vs charter in more detail.