Hi all, my girlfriend Karen and I are considering buying a 1996 42 catalina mk2 pullman,we have been looking at different yachts during the last 18 months.We allways come back to the same boat which has as near as damn it exactly what we want in terms of internal layout and transom which affords our diving and parents boarding needs. We are looking longterm to do the blue water round the world rally and have been very closely looking at various boats angle of vanishing stability. We have been convinced that we should not go for anything with less than 120 degrees angle of vanishing stability and no doubt you guessed it,here we are looking at a boat with 114 degrees. What,s it all about we ask ourselves this catalina has 40.3 ballast ratio or so we are told and therefore ignore the angle of vanishing stability....... Can anyone shed some light on this for us please or at least offer some comfort our kind regards Karen and Chris
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What's the issue with #s?
So much depends on where you want to go and how good your ability is to read and understand weather. Mexico from So. Cal.? C42 - go, go, go, NOW!!! World cruising? -- could do. You like the boat, you can afford it, we don't know your experience level. How else can we help given what you've told us? What part of "exactly what we want after looking for 18 months" do I perhaps NOT understand? If I were you, I'd go for it. Wish I were in your shoes.
So much depends on where you want to go and how good your ability is to read and understand weather. Mexico from So. Cal.? C42 - go, go, go, NOW!!! World cruising? -- could do. You like the boat, you can afford it, we don't know your experience level. How else can we help given what you've told us? What part of "exactly what we want after looking for 18 months" do I perhaps NOT understand? If I were you, I'd go for it. Wish I were in your shoes.
Get the boat!
The C42 MKII Pullman 2 cabin is probably going to be my next/last boat. I think it is a near ideal layout for a cruising couple. The vast majority of boats have a limit of positive stability less than 120deg. 112-118 deg covers most of the IMS fleet. Don't let that worry you.
The C42 MKII Pullman 2 cabin is probably going to be my next/last boat. I think it is a near ideal layout for a cruising couple. The vast majority of boats have a limit of positive stability less than 120deg. 112-118 deg covers most of the IMS fleet. Don't let that worry you.
Hi moody buccaneer & stu jackson,and everyone else. thanks for your reply's. This is the first time on any forum so please excuse us if we are doing this wrong. Karen and I have been viewing boats (mostly in England)we have looked at probably well over 100 different makes and sizes. We are keen on two cabin layout's and the transom on the cat is spot on. Whilst we have been viewing boats,it dawned on us that there are boats that will go anywhere and take on the elements,and there are boats that are more destined for calmer waters and would be somewhat pushed if the going got tough. We have looked at some of the lightweights and basically would not venture to far in them. Here in the Uk the Cat is quite rare and so we cannot find anyone who has the hands on experience (who is not trying to sell us a boat) to say yes this boat will look after you get in relly rough waters or even if you get knocked down. One broker (who did not have a cat to sell) told us that if it got knocked down it would easily roll and it would stay inverted,and basically knocked the cats safety and sailing capability. Karen and I would like contact with someone who knows these boats and has sailed a Cat 42 mk2 in various sea states and therefor is qualified to give us their views so that we can make our decision from a more informed position.
I know three people who have
cruised around the world on Catalina's one on a 42. They are great boats with a better turn of speed than the "traditional" slug speed boats. There is a safety factor in speed it means on long transits you'll do them in less time. I've sailed a C-42 in 45-50 knots of wind and 10 -15 foot seas and although it was wet we trimmed the boat properly and she took it fine.. You'll spend much more time "living" on the boat than "crossing ponds" so the C-42 works. Everytime I'm in the islands I'm amazed at how many C-42's are out world cruising it's a very propular cruiser...
cruised around the world on Catalina's one on a 42. They are great boats with a better turn of speed than the "traditional" slug speed boats. There is a safety factor in speed it means on long transits you'll do them in less time. I've sailed a C-42 in 45-50 knots of wind and 10 -15 foot seas and although it was wet we trimmed the boat properly and she took it fine.. You'll spend much more time "living" on the boat than "crossing ponds" so the C-42 works. Everytime I'm in the islands I'm amazed at how many C-42's are out world cruising it's a very propular cruiser...
Chris
We now understand your question a bit better. However, the choice is basically between a fin keeled boat and a full keeled one, and has been since they started making fin keeled boats that were tough enough to go and stay offshore. As Moody and Acoustic have mentioned, the C42 was produced to go offshore, and being in Europe, you most likely are even more aware than we Americans are of the EU standards. My understanding is that Catalina made the C42 to those standards (for offshore use). Your dealer there should be able to fill you in on that. Otherwise, you really can't go wrong UNLESS your stability analysis says to YOU, and YOU and Karen alone, that you'd personally be more comfortable with a full or modified full keeled boat. All the best, Stu
We now understand your question a bit better. However, the choice is basically between a fin keeled boat and a full keeled one, and has been since they started making fin keeled boats that were tough enough to go and stay offshore. As Moody and Acoustic have mentioned, the C42 was produced to go offshore, and being in Europe, you most likely are even more aware than we Americans are of the EU standards. My understanding is that Catalina made the C42 to those standards (for offshore use). Your dealer there should be able to fill you in on that. Otherwise, you really can't go wrong UNLESS your stability analysis says to YOU, and YOU and Karen alone, that you'd personally be more comfortable with a full or modified full keeled boat. All the best, Stu
Here are a few people
that took some Catalinas Blue water sailing. These are just a few stories I know of more. Catalina Cruisers Hall of Fame http://www.catalinayachts.com/hof.cfm You probably have heard of a beefed up Catalina 27 that was sailed around the world by Patrick Childress. Th C42 is a bigger version of the C27/C30 hull Then again, Thor Hyadahl (sp?) took a raft across oceans so I think it has more to do with seamanship. While a Catalina is not my first choice to sail around Cape Horn its not my last choice to cross open waters. I think the whole "rolling your boat in open seas" is a bit overly discussed concern like it happens that often. It doesn't. You need a "Breaking" wave of at least 21 feet hitting you just perfectly to accomplish that. Did you ever see the stabilty curves of the Volvo ocean boats or those others around the world speedsters. They are way worse than any Catalina stability curves. Just get a good survey (BTW Even though its only a rating but the C42 is rated for CE "A" class -- A. OCEAN: Designed for extended voyages where conditions may exceed wind force 8 (Beaufort scale) and significant wave heights of 4 meters and above, and vessels largely self-sufficient.) http://www.catalinayachts.com/certif.cfm Personally I know of someone on C42 (Story Below) that enter the "Caribbean 1500" back in 2002 and came in 1st in class and weathered the days of storm much better than some "well known" blue water cruisers A Blue Water Adventure on "La Buona Vita" On Oct 26, 2002, "La Buona Vita," a 1997 Catalina 42 MkII, left Snug Harbor Marina, New Rochelle, NY, and started it's first leg on a journey to Tortola, BVI. Capt. Peter A. Luciano at the helm with a crew of two men and one woman headed for Hampton, Virginia, where all the "Caribbean 1500" participants were scheduled to meet. The boat sat deep in the water due to all the extras we needed for our passage. We had installed an additional fuel tank, solar panels, an inner fore stay, SSB, weather fax, and other equipment. The provisions were stowed in one of the aft cabin closets where shelves were installed. Also, necessary fiddles were installed on every shelf area to keep things in place. Utilizing every space for water and provisions we were loaded. Tools, extra manual bilge pump, offshore life raft, type I life jackets, and a sea anchor were just a few of the required items on the rally's check list. The weather was cold and rainy but the anticipation was like adrenaline. Because we had favorable wind we sailed all the way to Virginia. The fleet of 46 boats converged and had meetings to discuss weather, safety, and a check list for all boats. Last minute additions and repairs were being done all around us and there was excitement in the air. The nightly get together's were helping people put faces on names and the sharing of information was very constructive. The list of boats in our fleet included sloops, cutters, ketches, yawls, catamarans, and a schooner. Some of the manufacturers included Hunter, Valiant, Shannon, Cape Dory, Dear foot, and Catalina. Some of the boats had made the trip many times and to some it was going to be their first ‘Blue Water' experience. We were ready and commenced on our rally on November 3, 2002. The day was cold but sunny and now there were three men and a woman. Capt. Luciano, First Mate Ann Perna, Bob Tatem, John Bridgewater and Lew Hill were ready for an adventure they will never forget. After the start, the feeling of being on a safe boat was apparent. We had a good boat, and a crew that was working well together. From the start, our approach was that safety came before speed, but we wanted to make a good showing. We headed south by south east and a light wind soon settled in. Since we wanted to get the gulf stream behind us we turned on the motor and made for the east side of the stream. As the next day approached we were told, on our morning chat, that a front was coming down and would probably hit us the next day. As we started across the gulf stream the winds started up, and the front was on our tail. Passing the gulf stream was a nothing compared to the storm we were about to face. But "La Buona Vita" handled perfectly. We prepared ourselves, always seeming to reef down just before the winds got stronger. We used the tried and true approach that if you think about reefing--reef! First we single reefed the main, then we furled the Genoa and set the staysail. Next we put the second reef in the main, the staysail then came down and last we put the third reef in the main. Using lines that were never run for the third reef by sending John up on a pitching deck and tying down the sail just before the winds clocked over 55 kt. We sailed for over two days in winds that never dropped below 35 and went as high as 57 at about 120 deg. with only a triple reefed main. It is hard for me to understand how attaching themselves to jack lines and going on the deck during a storm can be an enjoyable task. The storm was not going to beat us. We were motivated and knew the Catalina was sound and the crew very competent. Our heading east did help us clear the front earlier than some other boats. It was uncomfortable but bearable. Trying to sleep was not easy, especially when the bed broke. The small wood rail holding the mattress just gave way and there I was on the floor, snug as a bug in a rug. Peter repaired the bed when the weather got better. Trying to stand straight was impossible so we just leaned where the boat put us. Foul weather gear drying from one shift to the other decorated the boat. No cooked meals were possible so we had cereal, sandwiches and lots of snacks. After many days of high winds, they subsided somewhat and shifted, so we set some more sail and made for the BVI. We traded high winds for about a 30 deg. heel and we were on our way east by south east again. Through it all we had a great time, and no severe problems. There were many problems on other yachts, some lost their auto pilots, others had engine problems, wind generators fell of masts, lost head stays, bad fuel, fouled tanks, ripped sails, and lost steering. These problems and weather forced some boats to divert to Bermuda, Puerto Rico, and the Dominican Republic. It seemed the boats that headed south first were hit harder. Some decided to hove two, we never did. We just rode with the wind and sailed, sailed, sailed. One of our crew had made this passage before and told us it was never this bad. We also heard the same from many other boats whom make this passages every year. We believe leaving a day earlier would have made the passage easier. There seemed to have been a problem with the person responsible for the weather and we were without weather data for at least one day. Through it all, however there was the chat twice a day on the SSB led by one of the 1500 people. The chats helped people resolve their problems and seemed to be a stabilizing force for the fleet. Finally, the weather was warm the sun came out and the winds allowed us to sail with almost no heel. John took out his guitar and we all joined in singing in our spacious cockpit. We headed east, south east for a few more days and then south west for the last few hours. We saw Anageda and knew we were almost done. There were five boats in our class. Listening to the chat at night and noting the coordinates we realized two of the boats were ahead of us. What we didn't know was that they were motoring and we never motored after the second day. As the days became better we all showered in the front head, which was so enjoyable and roomy. We had wonderful meals, some included the fish we caught. The wind started to die down as we approached the finish and we invoked the "ten minute rule". We crossed the finish line sailing wing to wing scooping up any wind we could and never starting the engine. It was a beautiful day and we were all happy. Our crew was proud to be on our Catalina for this passage. We faced the storm and the Catalina took the waves and winds with no damage. On Friday, Nov. 15, there was an award dinner at Village Cay Marina. We did not know till that moment that we had won, First in our class, fourth overall! Quite an achievement for a production boat; quite an achievement for any boat. We did it, all of us and La Buona Vita! PETER LUCIANO, SAMS/AMS 533 MAMARONECK NY
that took some Catalinas Blue water sailing. These are just a few stories I know of more. Catalina Cruisers Hall of Fame http://www.catalinayachts.com/hof.cfm You probably have heard of a beefed up Catalina 27 that was sailed around the world by Patrick Childress. Th C42 is a bigger version of the C27/C30 hull Then again, Thor Hyadahl (sp?) took a raft across oceans so I think it has more to do with seamanship. While a Catalina is not my first choice to sail around Cape Horn its not my last choice to cross open waters. I think the whole "rolling your boat in open seas" is a bit overly discussed concern like it happens that often. It doesn't. You need a "Breaking" wave of at least 21 feet hitting you just perfectly to accomplish that. Did you ever see the stabilty curves of the Volvo ocean boats or those others around the world speedsters. They are way worse than any Catalina stability curves. Just get a good survey (BTW Even though its only a rating but the C42 is rated for CE "A" class -- A. OCEAN: Designed for extended voyages where conditions may exceed wind force 8 (Beaufort scale) and significant wave heights of 4 meters and above, and vessels largely self-sufficient.) http://www.catalinayachts.com/certif.cfm Personally I know of someone on C42 (Story Below) that enter the "Caribbean 1500" back in 2002 and came in 1st in class and weathered the days of storm much better than some "well known" blue water cruisers A Blue Water Adventure on "La Buona Vita" On Oct 26, 2002, "La Buona Vita," a 1997 Catalina 42 MkII, left Snug Harbor Marina, New Rochelle, NY, and started it's first leg on a journey to Tortola, BVI. Capt. Peter A. Luciano at the helm with a crew of two men and one woman headed for Hampton, Virginia, where all the "Caribbean 1500" participants were scheduled to meet. The boat sat deep in the water due to all the extras we needed for our passage. We had installed an additional fuel tank, solar panels, an inner fore stay, SSB, weather fax, and other equipment. The provisions were stowed in one of the aft cabin closets where shelves were installed. Also, necessary fiddles were installed on every shelf area to keep things in place. Utilizing every space for water and provisions we were loaded. Tools, extra manual bilge pump, offshore life raft, type I life jackets, and a sea anchor were just a few of the required items on the rally's check list. The weather was cold and rainy but the anticipation was like adrenaline. Because we had favorable wind we sailed all the way to Virginia. The fleet of 46 boats converged and had meetings to discuss weather, safety, and a check list for all boats. Last minute additions and repairs were being done all around us and there was excitement in the air. The nightly get together's were helping people put faces on names and the sharing of information was very constructive. The list of boats in our fleet included sloops, cutters, ketches, yawls, catamarans, and a schooner. Some of the manufacturers included Hunter, Valiant, Shannon, Cape Dory, Dear foot, and Catalina. Some of the boats had made the trip many times and to some it was going to be their first ‘Blue Water' experience. We were ready and commenced on our rally on November 3, 2002. The day was cold but sunny and now there were three men and a woman. Capt. Luciano, First Mate Ann Perna, Bob Tatem, John Bridgewater and Lew Hill were ready for an adventure they will never forget. After the start, the feeling of being on a safe boat was apparent. We had a good boat, and a crew that was working well together. From the start, our approach was that safety came before speed, but we wanted to make a good showing. We headed south by south east and a light wind soon settled in. Since we wanted to get the gulf stream behind us we turned on the motor and made for the east side of the stream. As the next day approached we were told, on our morning chat, that a front was coming down and would probably hit us the next day. As we started across the gulf stream the winds started up, and the front was on our tail. Passing the gulf stream was a nothing compared to the storm we were about to face. But "La Buona Vita" handled perfectly. We prepared ourselves, always seeming to reef down just before the winds got stronger. We used the tried and true approach that if you think about reefing--reef! First we single reefed the main, then we furled the Genoa and set the staysail. Next we put the second reef in the main, the staysail then came down and last we put the third reef in the main. Using lines that were never run for the third reef by sending John up on a pitching deck and tying down the sail just before the winds clocked over 55 kt. We sailed for over two days in winds that never dropped below 35 and went as high as 57 at about 120 deg. with only a triple reefed main. It is hard for me to understand how attaching themselves to jack lines and going on the deck during a storm can be an enjoyable task. The storm was not going to beat us. We were motivated and knew the Catalina was sound and the crew very competent. Our heading east did help us clear the front earlier than some other boats. It was uncomfortable but bearable. Trying to sleep was not easy, especially when the bed broke. The small wood rail holding the mattress just gave way and there I was on the floor, snug as a bug in a rug. Peter repaired the bed when the weather got better. Trying to stand straight was impossible so we just leaned where the boat put us. Foul weather gear drying from one shift to the other decorated the boat. No cooked meals were possible so we had cereal, sandwiches and lots of snacks. After many days of high winds, they subsided somewhat and shifted, so we set some more sail and made for the BVI. We traded high winds for about a 30 deg. heel and we were on our way east by south east again. Through it all we had a great time, and no severe problems. There were many problems on other yachts, some lost their auto pilots, others had engine problems, wind generators fell of masts, lost head stays, bad fuel, fouled tanks, ripped sails, and lost steering. These problems and weather forced some boats to divert to Bermuda, Puerto Rico, and the Dominican Republic. It seemed the boats that headed south first were hit harder. Some decided to hove two, we never did. We just rode with the wind and sailed, sailed, sailed. One of our crew had made this passage before and told us it was never this bad. We also heard the same from many other boats whom make this passages every year. We believe leaving a day earlier would have made the passage easier. There seemed to have been a problem with the person responsible for the weather and we were without weather data for at least one day. Through it all, however there was the chat twice a day on the SSB led by one of the 1500 people. The chats helped people resolve their problems and seemed to be a stabilizing force for the fleet. Finally, the weather was warm the sun came out and the winds allowed us to sail with almost no heel. John took out his guitar and we all joined in singing in our spacious cockpit. We headed east, south east for a few more days and then south west for the last few hours. We saw Anageda and knew we were almost done. There were five boats in our class. Listening to the chat at night and noting the coordinates we realized two of the boats were ahead of us. What we didn't know was that they were motoring and we never motored after the second day. As the days became better we all showered in the front head, which was so enjoyable and roomy. We had wonderful meals, some included the fish we caught. The wind started to die down as we approached the finish and we invoked the "ten minute rule". We crossed the finish line sailing wing to wing scooping up any wind we could and never starting the engine. It was a beautiful day and we were all happy. Our crew was proud to be on our Catalina for this passage. We faced the storm and the Catalina took the waves and winds with no damage. On Friday, Nov. 15, there was an award dinner at Village Cay Marina. We did not know till that moment that we had won, First in our class, fourth overall! Quite an achievement for a production boat; quite an achievement for any boat. We did it, all of us and La Buona Vita! PETER LUCIANO, SAMS/AMS 533 MAMARONECK NY
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