To be, or not to be, a PROTESTER . . .

[RobertLangdirect]

A while ago, I was racing in a multiday event at another club, a club that in particular goes out of their way to welcome others from further up and down the waterway, BTW. I saw two events that caused me to wonder about the rules and when I should protest.

One had to do with safety and using a motor to avoid a peril. The skipper on that boat seemed to think that the peril justified using his motor, not to better his position but rather, to maintain safety on the course.

The other was a port tasking boat who cut me off even as I was on a starboard tack, at full speed, ten seconds after the start of the race and right in front of the committee boat. In fact, the CB asked, "are you going to protest?"

I was too busy sailing in a crowd, now yelling at other port tacker that I was driving through, to respond or get out the red flag. Oh well.

In the first instance, the CB -- not knowing that the boat had motored -- actually scored the boat ahead of me in that leg (where I was next to dead last). So at the time, it did not seem to matter. However, at the end of day two, I finished TIED for the overall third and that one point would have prevented a tie -- IF ALL OTHER THINGS REMAINED CONSTANT.

In the second instance, protesting PROBABLY would have made NO difference to my finish position, but it may have changed the positioning of the overall first and second place boats. As I see it, by not protesting, I encouraged a boat to gain an advantage through a risky and prohibited move, and not have to incur his penalty; or I punished the second place boat that sailed a longer course by ducking below me.

So, now, I ask, what is your opinion? Would you protest and when?

 

[Freedom77]

USYRU rules were created by a bunch of old rich guys. The language usually states "shall" instead of "will". You had a right to protest both situations and let the RC sort it out at a hearing. The port tack boat definitely should have been flagged because you had to give way and he probably would have had to do a double 360. The 720 rule is a fairly recent invention which kept offenders from being disqualified outright. I got T-boned in a similar situation and the other skipper called me an SOB and told me to stay the F... out of his way. The RC sanctioned him and he lost that one. He told the protest committee to go to hell. There is one in every outfit. The committee was in the wrong by encourging you to protest. Maybe this guy was notorious for this type of thing. The motor issued would have had to be decided on circumstance and the offender could seek relief from the committee due to what he thought was "peril". Fair winds and Full sails....

 

[Maine Sail]

A while ago, I was racing in a multiday event at another club, a club that in particular goes out of their way to welcome others from further up and down the waterway, BTW. I saw two events that caused me to wonder about the rules and when I should protest.

One had to do with safety and using a motor to avoid a peril. The skipper on that boat seemed to think that the peril justified using his motor, not to better his position but rather, to maintain safety on the course.

The other was a port tasking boat who cut me off even as I was on a starboard tack, at full speed, ten seconds after the start of the race and right in front of the committee boat. In fact, the CB asked, "are you going to protest?"

I was too busy sailing in a crowd, now yelling at other port tacker that I was driving through, to respond or get out the red flag. Oh well.

In the first instance, the CB -- not knowing that the boat had motored -- actually scored the boat ahead of me in that leg (where I was next to dead last). So at the time, it did not seem to matter. However, at the end of day two, I finished TIED for the overall third and that one point would have prevented a tie -- IF ALL OTHER THINGS REMAINED CONSTANT.

In the second instance, protesting PROBABLY would have made NO difference to my finish position, but it may have changed the positioning of the overall first and second place boats. As I see it, by not protesting, I encouraged a boat to gain an advantage through a risky and prohibited move, and not have to incur his penalty; or I punished the second place boat that sailed a longer course by ducking below me.

So, now, I ask, what is your opinion? Would you protest and when?

We often don't protest but probably should do it more. Some racers choose to blatantly ignore the rules, and they often get away with it, thus furthering and perpetuating the problem..

 

[thinwater]

I cruise not race, but I used to race.

Protesting in a sailing race is like calling off-sides in a 20-way soccer match. It is not an acusation of poor character, just statment that either on purpose or by accident a boat gained advantage or broke a rule. A small penalty (often a 360 or 720) settles it and the race goes on, just like any simple sporting penalty.Though it may not have damaged you, it may have damaged others in the scoring. It's part of the game, and the sailor being protested should be no more offended or surprised than if a strike was called.

I do like to avoid protesting things I'm not sure of, perhaps because it was very close or because my perspective was poor; for fun racing appeals are a waste. I also dislike after-race protests. It should be finished and be Miller time!

 

[Tim R.]

Some racers will assume you do not know the rules if you are not familiar to them. Informing the port tack skipper that you were on Starboard and to stay clear may have solved that but you still could have protested without the warning. We would rather have the boat tack or sail behind us than to leave it up to the RC to determine.

The motoring vessel should have been protested also.

We have a guy who yells Starboard at virtually every crossing whether he be on starboard or port tack. We all get a big laugh from this one. We have another that uses the tonnage rule because he has a big heavy boat that no one wants to get hit by. You try to tell him to change course and he just smiles and keeps going. He usually always finishes last so no one ever protests him.

 

[Tim R.]

It should be finished and be Miller time!

Ugh, I would rather deal with a hotly contested protest than drink that swill!

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

USYRU rules were created by a bunch of old rich guys. The language usually states "shall" instead of "will".

Those "rich old guys" were only following the rules of grammar (that no one pays any attention to any more)... Shall is the correct word in formal situations--legal documents, minutes of meetings...AND rules..etc) to express obligation...iow, what the rules require you to do..and is still used correctly in legal docs etc.

 

[shemandr]

Count me as one who probably wouldn't have protested. If you made a big course change to avoid the port tacker then maybe. But if it was just a little duct I would consider it part of racing. Sometimes people make judgements which turn out to be wrong. As long as it didn't materially alter my race I wouldn't spend the time and mental energy.
The motor guy: Maybe again. Are you sure he didn't start the motor to insure the safety of his boat? Did he put it in gear? Are you sure?
I enjoy racing but I'm not excessively competitive. I might see if differently if I had dropped big bucks on a racing program. Nevertheless, I'm out there for fun and protesting isn't fun. Besides, you never know what will happen in the room (Read the Appeals book for evidence of this). Its usually not worth it.

 

[Don12364]

Brinkmanship!
The port tacker may have watched you carefully and, as he did not see or hear any sign of you protesting, decided to ride his luck.
If you had indicated you were protesting he would probably have done his 720° turns.

You were also vulnerable to being protested yourself by the other boat whose position might have been better if you had forced the port tacker to do his turns.

But now you ended up with a lowly series position and (almost) everyone thinks you are a nice guy - and you will be welcome back next year.
That's better than a prize.

 

[higgs]

I attended a rules seminar where the presenter made the case that it is the duty of a skipper to protest in order to maintain the integrity of the sport.

 

[Stu Jackson]

The only time I received a protest in over five years of racing was when a sore-loser (way far back in the pack) claimed I'd sailed out of bounds. I was ready to show him our track on the GPS when he retracted his protest.

We have a "be a good guy and don't get into protest territory" advice before all of our races. That said, sometimes stuff happens, but when someone's yelling starboard, they mean it, and the post earlier about the guy yelling it all the time was fantastic!

If there was reason to protest, it's part of the sport, so don't ignore your obligations to do so and keep everyone honest.

 

[Maine Sail]

That said, sometimes stuff happens, but when someone's yelling starboard, they mean it, and the post earlier about the guy yelling it all the time was fantastic!

The guy is a classic. He once yelled STARBOARD at us while we were on starboard tack and he on port tack. Perhaps he was just remining us that we had stand on position...... It really threw our game off for a few seconds while we let our brains calculate what was just yelled at us.....

 

[Merlin Clark]

The guy is a classic. He once yelled STARBOARD at us while we were on starboard tack and he on port tack. Perhaps he was just remining us that we had stand on position...... It really threw our game off for a few seconds while we let our brains calculate what was just yelled at us.....

I think I'll start doing that in parking lots and see if it works!

 

[Kevin3447]

Put your red flag in a film canister (remember what those are?) tied to your backstay, with a little pull string on the cap. Then, in the heat of the moment, you don't need to look for the flag (you'll lose the hearing if it took you too long to fly it), just pull the ripcord and yell "Protest". Hopefully, the offender will realize his mistake, do his turns, and won't make the same mistake again, and the fleet will be better off.
If it's questionable, you don't have to file the protest if you flew the flag, but you can't file the protest if you didn't fly the flag.
I think it's a fine line - you don't want to be the "marshmallow", but you don't want to be "the guy that protests everything" either. Whatever keeps it fun for you.

 

[sinnettc]

The only time I received a protest in over five years of racing was when a sore-loser (way far back in the pack) claimed I'd sailed out of bounds. I was ready to show him our track on the GPS when he retracted his protest.

There's an out of bounds in your races? How's that work? They have an olympic circle on our lake and I've never heard discussion of anything out of bounds.

 

[Freedom77]

Ugh, I would rather deal with a hotly contested protest than drink that swill!

Per Leslie Neilson in Naked Gun. Swill has chunks of stuff in it. Only thing worse than Miller is Coors, aka Colorado Kool-aid. Newcastle, Hoorah!! Fair Winds and full Sails....

 

[Freedom77]

USYRU rules were created by a bunch of old rich guys. The language usually states "shall" instead of "will".

Those "rich old guys" were only following the rules of grammar (that no one pays any attention to any more)... Shall is the correct word in formal situations--legal documents, minutes of meetings...AND rules..etc) to express obligation...iow, what the rules require you to do..and is still used correctly in legal docs etc.

HI Peggy, You are correct as always. These old rich guys were "gentlemen" an thus the verbiage. I think Mark Twain said, "Diplomacy is the art of calling someone a son of a bitch and having him thank you for it." Fair Winds and Full Sails...

 

[Stu Jackson]

There's an out of bounds in your races? How's that work? They have an olympic circle on our lake and I've never heard discussion of anything out of bounds.

Chris, there's a large daymarker near a shoreline on the first uphill section of the course. It's pretty far off the beach and with high water is deep enough to cut inside to gain relief from the current, but at low water it's a bottom killer. Anyone who sails between the shore and the daymarker is disqualified. That's what "out of bounds" means. I am sure that many other sailing venues have areas at the edges of courses that preclude transit.

 

[Old Skool Neil]

WOW, great thread. Of the first 18 posts at least 16 of them address why I don't race.

It's not that I'm foreign to it. I crewed on a factory team racing a quarter tonner in the 70's. I found all the hollering, fist shaking and flag waving in direct contrast to why I'm on the water. Y'all that somehow enjoy that stuff, more power to ya. Not me.

 

[JVB]

WOW, great thread. Of the first 18 posts at least 16 of them address why I don't race.

It's not that I'm foreign to it. I crewed on a factory team racing a quarter tonner in the 70's. I found all the hollering, fist shaking and flag waving in direct contrast to why I'm on the water. Y'all that somehow enjoy that stuff, more power to ya. Not me.

A quarter of a ton is 500 pounds, right ?