Mates, here's a coincidence straight from this list herebouts: Lorrie, he lady who had posted on needing advice about painting her inflatable, many good resonses (didn't know Armorall damaged Hyperlon - thanks-) just happens to go up to the West Marine counter Whence my friends wife is working in Pleasonton California, I had asked Lorrie if she knew Dave and Kelly (they are in the same Benicia Marina--use to be capital of Cal.--)bottom-line, Lorrie met Kelly, had a nice chat, she bought bottom paint for her inflatable, and went her merry way...;-) Okay, doesn't look like that big a deal whence black meets white, but there it is. Anybody hear more on Tony, and Herb? Wilker, instead of messing with a 'rat's nest' cut it free, install a strong forestay with a proper turnbuckle you can sight, then hank on a proper jib, she be right mate. Always hesitate in neutral, and lock in reverse, but remember before starting...;-)