Any TIPS, TRICKS for backing out of a slip with a inboard? I have about a 50% success ratio, just when I think I have it figured out, my Bow Pulpit hits the piling at the end of my slip. I understand prop walk and obviously wind and current play a huge part, lets just say for this one instant in time that there is no wind or current in the marina, it is all out on the bay where we are going sailing. I am sure this has been beaten to death in the past, but if you fellow silors are reading this post you are not out sailing anyway!!! Come on give up the goods Thanks and Smooth Sailing
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First thing you need to realize is that unless you have flow over the rudder, it will be completely ineffective. Little or no flow over the surface of the rudder robs you of the ability to steer. Second, when trying to negotiate a tight turn, the faster the RPM's the tighter the turn. Many folks slow down the RPM's during the turn only to wind up increasing the turning circle.
Prop Walk vs rudder
Alan is right in the fact that lower rpms with slow movement will allow the prop walk to be the major factor in steerage. If the direction of the prop walk is not what you want then use burst of higher rpms and neutral along with the direction of your rudder. I will sometimes ues the reverse of the prop walk and high rpm in short burst of forward blowing prop wash over a angles rudder to swing the stern around if the walk alone is not enough or the ares is to tight. Know your pivot point.
Alan is right in the fact that lower rpms with slow movement will allow the prop walk to be the major factor in steerage. If the direction of the prop walk is not what you want then use burst of higher rpms and neutral along with the direction of your rudder. I will sometimes ues the reverse of the prop walk and high rpm in short burst of forward blowing prop wash over a angles rudder to swing the stern around if the walk alone is not enough or the ares is to tight. Know your pivot point.
Induce Movement
As noted, the rudder does nothing unless a boat is moving. And while a prop imparts motion to a boat, not all of the motion, particularly when attempting to accelerate from a stop, is in the forward direction. Hence the "prop walk" - motion in a direction other than forward or reverse. Knowing all that, attempt to get the boats motion started by hand and/or by tensioning lines. Giving the boat - even a heavy one - a little start in the desired direction, before applying power, can help to minimize undesirable prop walk and give you a touch more control. Another tip - attempt to plan ahead to the greatest degree possible. If your boat just doesn't want to back to starboard - try to never put it in a position where you'll need to do that. ("Patient: Doc, it hurts when I do this." "Doctor: Don't do this!"). Good Luck! Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
As noted, the rudder does nothing unless a boat is moving. And while a prop imparts motion to a boat, not all of the motion, particularly when attempting to accelerate from a stop, is in the forward direction. Hence the "prop walk" - motion in a direction other than forward or reverse. Knowing all that, attempt to get the boats motion started by hand and/or by tensioning lines. Giving the boat - even a heavy one - a little start in the desired direction, before applying power, can help to minimize undesirable prop walk and give you a touch more control. Another tip - attempt to plan ahead to the greatest degree possible. If your boat just doesn't want to back to starboard - try to never put it in a position where you'll need to do that. ("Patient: Doc, it hurts when I do this." "Doctor: Don't do this!"). Good Luck! Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
back it up
When you want to back out, position the boat in the slip so that the bow is to the left of the centerline of the slip and the stern is to right (a little crooked in the slip)with the helm centered. Start backing by gunning the engine in reverse to get the boat moving and as soon as it starts to move, turn the RUDDER to port about halfway. When you're halfway out of the slip, turn the RUDDER the rest of the way and reduce RPMs. you should be moving in the right direction. shift into neutral and let the momentum carry you the rest of the way. in the center of the fairway, center the helm, shift into forward and gun the engine to check your reverse motion and get the boat moving. once you're moving, reduce RPM and cruise on out.
When you want to back out, position the boat in the slip so that the bow is to the left of the centerline of the slip and the stern is to right (a little crooked in the slip)with the helm centered. Start backing by gunning the engine in reverse to get the boat moving and as soon as it starts to move, turn the RUDDER to port about halfway. When you're halfway out of the slip, turn the RUDDER the rest of the way and reduce RPMs. you should be moving in the right direction. shift into neutral and let the momentum carry you the rest of the way. in the center of the fairway, center the helm, shift into forward and gun the engine to check your reverse motion and get the boat moving. once you're moving, reduce RPM and cruise on out.
Use a Spring line.
One whichever side you want to back toward, hold that spring line in the cockpit. hold it in your hand. Don't let it be too short. This is really helpful if you are backing out against your prop walk. (That is you have port prop-walk and need to back to starboard.) If you are leaving a transient slip, it is good to have a line twice as long wrapped around the piling. Then hold both ends. Pull it in fast when you are out - put the engine in neutral to keep from getting it stuck in the prop. Easy as pie.
One whichever side you want to back toward, hold that spring line in the cockpit. hold it in your hand. Don't let it be too short. This is really helpful if you are backing out against your prop walk. (That is you have port prop-walk and need to back to starboard.) If you are leaving a transient slip, it is good to have a line twice as long wrapped around the piling. Then hold both ends. Pull it in fast when you are out - put the engine in neutral to keep from getting it stuck in the prop. Easy as pie.
I make it a point to run the engine
in reverse in my slip for 10 or so minutes prior to departing to put some load on the diesal to warm it up. There is no doubt that there is water moving past the rudder at this point as can be seen by looking at the movement of the water near the bow of the boat. I place the engine in neutral so that the lines can be cast off, center the rudder and attempt to back out. I then give the engine a little throttle, but you guessed it the bow pivots to starboard and the rest is history. Is it that I should be gunning the engine in reverse then shifting to neutral or gunning the engine in reverse then reducing the throttle and backing out? In my old marina I had to back up through the entire marina past about 30 slips then back into my slip. No doubt once the rudder had enough water flowing over it manuvering was certainley possible. Funny, I could back up about 60 yards before and put my boat in it's slip, now I have trouble backing up 30 feet. GO FIGURE!!
in reverse in my slip for 10 or so minutes prior to departing to put some load on the diesal to warm it up. There is no doubt that there is water moving past the rudder at this point as can be seen by looking at the movement of the water near the bow of the boat. I place the engine in neutral so that the lines can be cast off, center the rudder and attempt to back out. I then give the engine a little throttle, but you guessed it the bow pivots to starboard and the rest is history. Is it that I should be gunning the engine in reverse then shifting to neutral or gunning the engine in reverse then reducing the throttle and backing out? In my old marina I had to back up through the entire marina past about 30 slips then back into my slip. No doubt once the rudder had enough water flowing over it manuvering was certainley possible. Funny, I could back up about 60 yards before and put my boat in it's slip, now I have trouble backing up 30 feet. GO FIGURE!!
No one has mentioned the value of a boat
in this maneuver. My boat is bad to back anywhere. Kicking the stern left or right with the rudder and engine is a skill everyone should learn. We back into our slips in our marina and being too cautious in your approach is always a mistake. You must have steerage if you are going to be able to control the boat. Once the boat is moving astern then you can counter prop walk with a little rudder. You only have to back for the length of the boat and then make your turn. Our pump out dock is the old launch basin and it is a beast when there is a north wind or the river is up and running.
in this maneuver. My boat is bad to back anywhere. Kicking the stern left or right with the rudder and engine is a skill everyone should learn. We back into our slips in our marina and being too cautious in your approach is always a mistake. You must have steerage if you are going to be able to control the boat. Once the boat is moving astern then you can counter prop walk with a little rudder. You only have to back for the length of the boat and then make your turn. Our pump out dock is the old launch basin and it is a beast when there is a north wind or the river is up and running.
get it moving
It is very important to get some motion on the boat - even a little bit will allow some steering. By getting the boat moving straight back, then shifting to neutral, there is no prop walk effect from that point and you can back the boat accurately, putting her back in gear when you have more room to spare. Also, don't try to steer it too soon - another few seconds under power, backing straight up, will give you that little extra speed that translates to flow over the rudder - then when you put it over, the boat will respond much better. Many folks just put it right over immediately, with almost no motion on the boat. Much better to get motion, then feed in the rudder.
It is very important to get some motion on the boat - even a little bit will allow some steering. By getting the boat moving straight back, then shifting to neutral, there is no prop walk effect from that point and you can back the boat accurately, putting her back in gear when you have more room to spare. Also, don't try to steer it too soon - another few seconds under power, backing straight up, will give you that little extra speed that translates to flow over the rudder - then when you put it over, the boat will respond much better. Many folks just put it right over immediately, with almost no motion on the boat. Much better to get motion, then feed in the rudder.
Bill go to neutral
after you have gunned it (1/3 -1/2 throttle)in reverse for a few seconds or until the boat has moved about 1/2 boat length, with the rudder hard to starboard. If I idle in reverse the stern keeps walking. I also push the bow to port, as others have said, after I cast off to get a little advantage. Once in neutral with the boat moving back, be patient waiting for the bow to come around. If no luck, then another short burst of reverse and back to neutral.
after you have gunned it (1/3 -1/2 throttle)in reverse for a few seconds or until the boat has moved about 1/2 boat length, with the rudder hard to starboard. If I idle in reverse the stern keeps walking. I also push the bow to port, as others have said, after I cast off to get a little advantage. Once in neutral with the boat moving back, be patient waiting for the bow to come around. If no luck, then another short burst of reverse and back to neutral.
practice
This won't work to well for a full keel, and I would try it away from things till you get the feel. You can back the boat out, get it moving (not crawling), 1/2-2/3 way out go to netural, turn the rudder to full port. After the bow clears the slip and you have used up about 1/2 of you working space lay the rudder to full starboard while go into forward at high (not insane) enough rpms to stop you before you hit something. You will find that the boat will most likely spin on a dime while it is stopping. It works going the other way to. Add wind and current and it can get interesting.
This won't work to well for a full keel, and I would try it away from things till you get the feel. You can back the boat out, get it moving (not crawling), 1/2-2/3 way out go to netural, turn the rudder to full port. After the bow clears the slip and you have used up about 1/2 of you working space lay the rudder to full starboard while go into forward at high (not insane) enough rpms to stop you before you hit something. You will find that the boat will most likely spin on a dime while it is stopping. It works going the other way to. Add wind and current and it can get interesting.
PS
It will spin to starboard. The prop wash over the rudder acts as a water jet drive and has enough power to over power the fact that the rudder is to starboard while you are slowly moving backward. It will really start to spin as the backwark movement slows and stops.
It will spin to starboard. The prop wash over the rudder acts as a water jet drive and has enough power to over power the fact that the rudder is to starboard while you are slowly moving backward. It will really start to spin as the backwark movement slows and stops.
In case it hasn't been mentioned ... those little
wing keels are useless when backing. There is little side resistance. The bigger the fin the easier the boat is to back. I couldn't believe the slide slip on the 272 when I first got it. Vic "Seven"
wing keels are useless when backing. There is little side resistance. The bigger the fin the easier the boat is to back. I couldn't believe the slide slip on the 272 when I first got it. Vic "Seven"
Yeah, putting a 27' boat in a 35' slip.
From a dead stop, don't gun the engine as it will just increase prop walk and make you hit the pole harder. You have to get the boat moving back rather than sideways before you can make use of gunning the engine or shifting to neutral control tecniques. You can accomplish that by the use of a spring line tied to the dock or to the back pole opposite the direction of prop walk. The object is to hold the line in hand to prevent the stern from moving sideways. Do not pull, just hold to counter act prop walk. With no way to go the boat will start moving straight back and once you gain stearage you can release the line. Now you can place it in neutral to stop prop walk altogether and let the boat slide out or gun the engine in spurts to fight wind and current as you back out. Most boats are equipped with rub rails and they are a functional part of it so don't be afraid to let your boat lean on them poles. Different boats behave differently so what works for somebody else may not work gor you and viceversa. A light boat with a small engine will walk more than a heavy boat with a more powerful engine. Learn to use prop walk to your advantage and don't be afraid to try different approaches just to see how the boat reacts. At minimal speed you are not going to cause any damage so what if you get a little sideways, just fend off and get back in line and try again. Learn to use spring lines as in strong cross currents and wind they may provide the only way out of a slip. Practice makes perfect (or near ).
From a dead stop, don't gun the engine as it will just increase prop walk and make you hit the pole harder. You have to get the boat moving back rather than sideways before you can make use of gunning the engine or shifting to neutral control tecniques. You can accomplish that by the use of a spring line tied to the dock or to the back pole opposite the direction of prop walk. The object is to hold the line in hand to prevent the stern from moving sideways. Do not pull, just hold to counter act prop walk. With no way to go the boat will start moving straight back and once you gain stearage you can release the line. Now you can place it in neutral to stop prop walk altogether and let the boat slide out or gun the engine in spurts to fight wind and current as you back out. Most boats are equipped with rub rails and they are a functional part of it so don't be afraid to let your boat lean on them poles. Different boats behave differently so what works for somebody else may not work gor you and viceversa. A light boat with a small engine will walk more than a heavy boat with a more powerful engine. Learn to use prop walk to your advantage and don't be afraid to try different approaches just to see how the boat reacts. At minimal speed you are not going to cause any damage so what if you get a little sideways, just fend off and get back in line and try again. Learn to use spring lines as in strong cross currents and wind they may provide the only way out of a slip. Practice makes perfect (or near ).
Spring Line Location
I have heard spring line a couple of times, I assume that we are talkng about placing the spring line on the rear pole, starboard side aft???
I have heard spring line a couple of times, I assume that we are talkng about placing the spring line on the rear pole, starboard side aft???
see DAMN FLIES in New E
One post has damn flies, this one spiders. Take the spiders from thier boats, put em on yours, fly problem solved. If that doesn't work, then get a gecko or lizard as a pet. They eat flies and spiders.
One post has damn flies, this one spiders. Take the spiders from thier boats, put em on yours, fly problem solved. If that doesn't work, then get a gecko or lizard as a pet. They eat flies and spiders.
Bill
I think all sailors should have a line that one can use at any dock available on their boat. This line needs to be at least twice the lenght of the boat but doesn't need to be very thick so it shouldn't cost that much. How you use it is to loop it around the cleat on the dock and have both ends on the boat (one end can be attached to a cleat on the boat). U use that line to pull the boat in the direction you want when you leave and when you no longer need to use the line, you just let go of the un-attached end and retrieve it back into the boat. There is a concern though...you need to make sure you don't get it caught in the prop. Putting the prop in neutral will solve that problem. Using a floating line helps too. Having a line like this on your boat all the time will come in handy. I used my painter for this a couple of times at the pumpout and fuel dock.
I think all sailors should have a line that one can use at any dock available on their boat. This line needs to be at least twice the lenght of the boat but doesn't need to be very thick so it shouldn't cost that much. How you use it is to loop it around the cleat on the dock and have both ends on the boat (one end can be attached to a cleat on the boat). U use that line to pull the boat in the direction you want when you leave and when you no longer need to use the line, you just let go of the un-attached end and retrieve it back into the boat. There is a concern though...you need to make sure you don't get it caught in the prop. Putting the prop in neutral will solve that problem. Using a floating line helps too. Having a line like this on your boat all the time will come in handy. I used my painter for this a couple of times at the pumpout and fuel dock.
Prop behind the rudder?
Lots of good suggestions here but, if you have an inboard mounted on the centerline of the transom aft of the rudder, as I do, you will find that the boat backs with more control than it has going forward. This is because the propwash hits the rudder only in reverse (while backing). Propwash makes the rudder more effective. I typically back into difficult situations. Try backing into your slip and then driving straight out. Also, consider that if prop-walk works against you in forward it should work for you in reverse and vise versa.
Lots of good suggestions here but, if you have an inboard mounted on the centerline of the transom aft of the rudder, as I do, you will find that the boat backs with more control than it has going forward. This is because the propwash hits the rudder only in reverse (while backing). Propwash makes the rudder more effective. I typically back into difficult situations. Try backing into your slip and then driving straight out. Also, consider that if prop-walk works against you in forward it should work for you in reverse and vise versa.
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