Timber for bowsprit

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Mar 29, 2008
10
Ta Chiao CT41 Long Beach
HI, all. Due to rot I will have to replace my 6' wooden bowsprit before doing any 'serious' sailing. The rough dimensions are 12"x12" and 6' long (tapering as it goes). I'm in need of suggestions from someone who knows where to get rough cut timber these in dimensions. I expect I'll probably want something like Oak or Teak....though I think the one on it now is a softer wood. Any helpful suggestions appreciated. ...someone on the dock told me to get out the chainsaw and save 50$/mo. in slip fees...ie. not helpful :)
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Have you considered California Redwood?

You could make the thing out of balsa wood with those scantlings.
 
Mar 29, 2008
10
Ta Chiao CT41 Long Beach
hmmmm.

Thanks guys. I think the original might be fir (or perhaps spruce). Its not so much the material (no balsa!) but where one would get raw sawn material in those proportions. I haven't asked around too much yet, in fact, because its the weekend and I can't call about I thought I'd register and post here first. I'm also possibly in the market for someone with tools to shave the thing down for me, if the price was right. Anyway, I'm on the west coast and due to shipping etc. it would be nice to find a supplier in this general region. thanks.- Jason
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Jason , Go to the yellow pages and look for sawmills,

Then go to a hardware store and get a power plane. Then taper the thing to the shape you want. This is simple wood butchery 101.
 
Mar 31, 2007
59
- - SF Bay
Concrete would work

Just a joke - but the load on a bow sprit is compressive and concrete is good for that. The dolphin striker balances the upward pull of the forestay. Fir would be ok if it was kept painted. You could laminate it from 2" boards, rough it out with a chain saw, belt sander, etc. Use wood dowels and clamp it a week after each gluing.
 
Sep 6, 2007
324
Catalina 320 Gulfport, Fl
you should stay with a soft wood

the soft wood will flex, a hard wood will just break./ All tall ships with wooden masts and yards use pine as it flexes. A hard wood doesn't flex, just snaps at the worst time
 

CalebD

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Jun 27, 2006
1,479
Tartan 27' 1967 Nyack, NY
First of alll, that is a rather nice boat.

What happened to the bowsprit that requires replacing it I can only imagine. Stuff happens with boats. As other posters have noted you can laminate boards together with epoxy to make up dimensions required for your bow sprit. As far as the different types of wood to be used there are lots of choices to choose from: spruce, white oak, ipe, etc. Ipe is a good choice because it is oily and rot resistant but it is hard to work with tools as it it is so hard that it is denser than water and can sink on its own in the briny salt water. There is spruce which is much more easily worked into shape and there is white oak which is supposed to have mythical qualities. Good luck with this.
 
L

Liam

a peg leg

Traditionally, to insure that you are blessed with fair wind and the good graces of Posideon, a "peg-leg" would be used for this purpose. This wooden appendage should be liberated from a pirate. The more mean-spirited and offensive the pirate the better. In your case this pirate will also need to be quite tall.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Patrick, You need to stick to sailing and avoid giving advise about wood

Nobody makes axe and hammer handles out of soft wood and hickory is as hard as you will ever want to have to shape. Pine masts were used because their weight was relatively low and the trees grew tall and straight. Oak was used for timbers and planking because of its great strength and shock absorbing ability. The last time I looked baseball bats were made of hard wood. He should stay with one of the soft woods to keep the weight down but a properly made bowsprit is not allowed to flex. It is stayed port and starboard and from beneath by the bobstay.
 
May 5, 2006
1,140
Knutson K-35 Yawl Bellingham
Spruce, sitka spruce. That's the wood of preference for spars.

That's what Oh Joy's spars are made of.
 
May 28, 2006
58
Hunter 34 Solomons, MD
Sitka spruce, if you can find it....

in clear or better boards. Failing that, use clear or better pine. Then laminate it using Gorilla or resorcinol glue -- that will make a stronger sprit than a single natural piece of wood.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Jason ----

I looked at your blog pages (nice boat) and offer the following: Your current sprit seems to be 'pinned' to the stem with a throughbolt, plus (I cant see from the pics) a large cross bolt that connects to samson posts. Both are subject to 'sawing' the wooden sprit as the sprit moves in reactance to the rigging loads. I have a similar sprit - To prevent rot in the future I have 'ferruled' all the through holes in the sprit - I epoxied thin stainless 'liners' (thin walled tube) for all the holes so that the cross-through bolts cannot wear the wood. All the 'motion' is guarded by the thin stainless tube thats in the OD of the bores into the sprit. If your sprit is also laminated youll also want to set the bobstay at the correct tensions (by trigonometry) so that the sprit doesnt flex .... and so the sprit is ONLY in compression when sail-loaded. Typically and because of the 'angles' the bobstay will be near TWICE the rigging tension of the headstay, even with the dolphin striker that you have mounted. Any flexure in the sprit will cause the laminations to eventually separate ... and water will enter into the subsequent cracks; balancing the headstay to bobstay reactions correctly will prevent the flexure ... and the movement flexure that promotes laminate separations hence rot. To avoid lamination separations take a look at how the Valiants and Baba's pin their bowsprits to the stem .... they use a 'gammon iron', which is simply a stirrup through which the bowsprit is located but does not bear stress onto the sprit, lets it move up and down slightly .... but if you break a stay the gammon will capture the sprit. The gammon iron allows the sprit to move slightly up and down at the stem connection and this movement doesnt apply pressure that causes the *adverse flexure*. Such sprits are usually laminated of fairly straight grained hardwood. Mine is a lamination of mahogany and teak but any straight grained hardwood will work. Solid sprits are vulnerable to splits and 'chunks falling out', especially solid teak or ipe, etc. due to the sometimes extremely high compression loads so the usual choice for replacment should be a lamination using only recorcinol as the 'glue'. Near any large metropolitan area you should be able to find a specialty 'hardwood' dealer ... who probably 'ricks' his own woods. The current price of prime hardwoods is 'astonishing'. A specialty dealer should also have suitable alternatives for such high compression loads ... something you are NOT going to find in a 'lumberyard'. For the softwood portion consider Honduran straight grained, certainly NOT any asian softwood such as luan, etc. (that rots easily). The 'modern' design of the same function are now showing up as stainless steel tube bent into a 'horseshoe' that connects to the bulwarks (the horseshoe in place of the whisker stays) and leaves the space where the older single sprit were placed now 'open' .... and you can mount your windlass there 'on deck' without interference. Bob Perry used this 'horseshoe' design on his PacificSeacraft 38.5 (but was never built due to the bankruptcy of PSC. I might have a line drawing somewhere of this horseshoe shaped sprit that I can email if you're interested or you may want to contact Perry directly (www.perryboats.com) for a fee.
 
Mar 29, 2008
10
Ta Chiao CT41 Long Beach
Thanks for all the info people. :)

the original sprit was formed from a solid piece. The rot I only recently discovered because the area had been well painted after being "repaired" by the prior owner. He used a both some kind of hard plastic resin and bondo, both of which failed to do anything about the underlying rot/termite problem. the rot is localized to one specific area about 10" in length and across the bottom half of the sprit. At that point about 35-40% of the material was reduced to pulp and removed by me yesterday. I applied antifreze to kill the fungus causing the rot and plan to use a wood epoxy followed by a filler to effect temporary repairs. This will not do for serious ocean going, planned for later in the year. BaySailors observations on the compressive nature of the loads affecting the sprit have given me more confidence in daysailing the sprit as she stands. I really need to call and see what is available in terms of lumber though I reckon that spruce has acquired the most votes thus far. Steel is out of the question unfortunately, purely on aesthetic grounds. Rich, thanks for the comments on lamination. It is always an option and I will certainly look into applying your "sleeving" of the bolt holes technique as a preventative and strengthening measure when the time comes. I'll let you all know how things progress!
 
Jun 12, 2004
1,181
Allied Mistress 39 Ketch Kemah,Tx.
Make a dutchman

You can look it up in just about any book on boat repair. First clean up all rot and soft spots. Next, carfully plane or chisel an area starting well before the missing area to taper into the bottom of the 'hole'. Do this on both sides. In effect, you are making a giant "V". The slope should be at least 12 to one on both sides and as flat as possible. then, from the same kind of wood, make a wide "V" shaped wedge to fit as perfect as you can into that area. Epoxy it into place and that should do it. If you feel like you must replace the sprit in its entirety, check the prices at local lumber yards. You might be surprised that genuine mahogany (honduras) not the Phillipine Mahogany, may be less expensive or close to the price of Sitka Spruce. Mahogany is strong, light and handles up to weather fairly well. Sometimes it can be had in fairly thick sizes or just go ahead and laminate. Laminated wood is much stronger and more stable tha a solid piece. Also note that mahogany machines very well. That is, cuts and sand easily. Tony B ,
 
Mar 29, 2008
10
Ta Chiao CT41 Long Beach
update

talked to a boatyard. They told me that though spruce is commonly used for spars (and guitars), ,in their experience Fur is what most bowsprits are made from. I removed the bowsprit yesterday and found even more rot where it was bolted through the deck. I called about and discovered a lumber supplier in Orange County (www.ganahl.com) who told me that they had high quality Fur in those dimensions in stock. I also found a cabinetmaker in LA who was willing to take on the job of fashioning a new one, including all the blocking for under 500$.. I'll let y'all know how everything goes.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Jason, 500 is a bargain. But you should use fir and

not fur. I know they sound the same but fur has a tendency to get on your clothes.
 
Jun 13, 2005
559
Irwin Barefoot 37 CC Sloop Port Orchard WA
Jason, Don't take offense at Ross. I think he was just pulling your leg.

Sitka Spruce, at least the long grain variety commonly used in spar making, is extremely hard to find even if you could afford it; so fir is probably an acceptable substitute. One thing to know however is that the best looking fir, that is; the clearest looking and straightest grain fir comes from old growth timber, and most that that suddenly came on the market a number of years ago, was recovered from old growth fir that had been downed, in the many millions of board feet, from the old growth forests around Mt. St. Helen, when the volcano erupted. For some strange reason, that no one has been able to explain to me, the word had spread that that fir was subject to premature rotting. I have no personal experience to support that claim, but thought you should know about it anyway. Maybe someone else could comment on it. But to get to your project, Frames are no longer steam bent, tillers are seldom shaped from one piece, and most beams are no longer sawn from one piece. They are all laminated. Laminates are stronger and more predictable in failure, better looking, easier to shape, are more rot, split, and warp resistant, and are usually cheaper. Why not look into that? Good Luck Joe S
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Jason, If you can contact this man you will be able

to get an explaination for the early decay in Mt St Helens Douglas Fir. He is the resident go to man on the wooden boat forum for questions about wood and many other things. http://www.woodenboat.com/forum/member.php?u=6936
 
L

Liam

Stainless

Have you thought about getting one made from Stainless Steel? That should last the life of the boat. Also make one hell of a battering-ram.
 
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