Tim R.'s Ericson is looking real gooooood !!!!!

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Feb 6, 1998
11,759
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Hi All, Yep I'm at it again but this time with another forum members boat! I told Tim R. & his wife I'd help them buff, polish and wax their fire engine red, Imron painted, Ericson. Well, we spent most of today working on Cordelia and the results are amazing. I had never worked with Imron, so I was slightly skeptical, but I have to say this stuff is a dream to work with compared to Awlgrip! When I got there Tim was telling me how they planed on a new paint job withing the next year or two but I think after today they may be able to spend their boat dollars on other boat toys and postpone the paint for a few more years. We experimented for about a half an hour and settled on 3M Super Duty marine Rubbing Compound and a 3M foam polishing grade pad not a buffing grade pad. This combo worked very well with the hard Imron and left a fairly decent shine. The 3M Super Duty was followed with a polishing/glazing phase using Presta Chroma 1500 & Presta's blue wool pad. I'm always amazed at the magic of the Presta Chroma 1500 and it's diminishing grit! Chroma 1500 starts out about the same grit as Finesse It II but the grit diminishes to a true glaze saving an entire step! Tim's wife then came along behind us with a coat of Colinite #885 Fleet Paste carnuba wax. According to Tim his boat was painted with Imron in 1989 and after today it looks almost new! I have to thank Tim and his wife for allowing me to take part in the top sides transformation of Cordelia. Oh and thanks for the lunch and beer too!!!!
 

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gpd955

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Feb 22, 2006
1,164
Catalina 310 Cape May, NJ
Looks great.

Almost inspires me to redo my 79 Catalina. Maybe next season since it would kill me to pull her now. It's good to know that it doesn't take a crazy amount of time to get it done. Well, we have a tendency to use the standard hours to beer ratio when working on the boats---1:2---so it may take a little bit longer!! ;D Love the red, too! You guys busy next April????? Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
 
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Pete D.

Holy Cow

That looks incredible. I was unaware that Imron could be buffed. My boat yard tells me to just hand over 10k for a paint job! You mentioned a pad for the heavy duty compound do you know specifics? What did you use for a buffer etc. I need to do this to my boat. Awsome job and great color!
 
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Jon

Tim you must be psyched

I have never seen a shine like that even when my boat was new! Maine Sail really does know what he's doing I'll have to read his posts more often & more closely. The real question is can you do it on your own now? Did he tell you his secrets?
 
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Rocinante

Imron or Awlgrip or ???

I have a couple of questions for Maine Sail. My topsides are painted, but I don't know if they are Awlgrip or Imron or something else. Do you know how I can determine what it is? If it is awlgrip, what products & techniques do you use for that paint? Do you think I should try your techniques on a small spot to test it? I don't really want to buy the products if it turns out I can't use them on my paint type. Thanks, Rocinante Ericson 33
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,759
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
It's darn near impossible

To tell if you have Imron or Awlgrip. You could try and track down where she might have been painted or a previous owner. Here's the deal with Awlgrip & Imron.. Both Imron and Awlgrip can be touched up and repaired by an experienced professional. The key word there is experienced! There are, however, significant differences between these two linear polyurethane (LPU) paints. Both Imron & Awlgrip happen to be the best-known examples of the two main classes of LPU coatings but they are not he only ones. There are two basic types of LPU's acrylic polyurethanes (Imron, Awlcraft 2000, Interspray 800, PPG Concept, Sikkens Yachtcryl) and the polyester polyurethanes (Awlgrip, Interspray 900, Sterling, etc.) Both acrylic and polyester LPU coatings produce a beautiful wet-look shine that, with proper care, will last a full five or six years before any noticeable difference appears. The main difference is the polyester LPU yields a harder, more weather- and UV-resistant finish so your boat stays glossy longer with Awlgrip than with Imron. This is the claim any way! Hatteras Yachts used Imron for years and years with very good results, this is why I say, "this is the claim".. If I'm not mistaken they have now switched to using Alwcraft 2000 which is very similar to Imron just made by Akzo and not Dupont.. The problem with the polyester LPU's, like Awlgrip & Sterling, is that when they cure a thin hard surface is formed like a built in clear coat. This becomes a problem when & if you try to buff Awlgrip or Sterling. Most people don't realize it but are actually only buffing this very thin surface layer made up of mostly the clear solids. Picture oil & water. As you shake the bottle they almost form together but if you let it sit the oil rises to the surface. This, in a sense, is what Alwgrip cures like with the clear solids rising to the surface to protect the pigment layer. It's really more complicated than that but it's about as easy as I can explain it. In most instances, when buffing Awlgrip, you will burn through this thin outer layer quite quickly using compounds. Once you've done that you'll be a slave to the Awlgrip until it's worn away or re-painted. We've all seen Awlgrip that's been chaffed by a fender or a winter cover. This chafing has basically worn through the "clear solids" and has exposed the base layer of the paint leaving it unprotected from the sun. Many smaller boat shops recommend & use the acrylic LPU's because they are a lot easier to work with. An acrylic LPU, like Imron or Alwcraft 2000, dries faster and, because it’s a softer paint, it’s easier to perform the buffing required to force a smooth shine onto a mediocre spray job full of dust and dull areas. We did an after the fact buff job on Tim's Imron and I can tell you this paint is plenty hard! Finesse It II and Chroma 1500 barely touched it until after we had buffed it with Superduty Rubbing Compound. Awlgrip is quite unforgiving and it’s a lot harder to get good results in marginal painting conditions with but it purportedly lasts longer. Both types, acrylic & polyester LPU's, can be repaired by spraying a patch or brush touch-up and then wet sanding and buffing to blend it with the surrounding finish. Special blending additives help as well as experience. One of the biggest problems in repair work is color matching and that's where Awlgrip shines. Alwgrip has better fade resistance to the acrylic LPU's and an Awlgrip hull color stays stable and fade-free longer than an acrylic. How much longer I don't know but these are the claims.. The problem then becomes how good is your repair guy at feathering an Awlgrip job vs. the much easier feathering of a acrylic LPU like Imron. I'll take an acrylic LPU over a polyester LPU for just the ease of repair any day. Tim's boat had some definite ghosting where the old name was but hell it's fire engine red, the color that fades easiest, and even Awlgrip would have ghosting at that age. Unfortunately there is no way other than sending a chip into a lab to know if you have an acrylic LPU or a polyester LPU. If your boat is due for paint any way, regardless of if it's Awlgrip or Imron, it can't hurt to try. If it's Alwgrip you'll know within a few months as it will start to fade out rather quickly. Once you have buffed Awlgrip you'll need to keep a wax or sealer on it. LPU paints are durable but will not last as long as original gelcoat. Gelcoat is sometimes 10 times the thickness (up to 15 mil) of an LPU paint job (2.5 - 3 mils) so if you can salvage your gelcoat with a wet sand, compound, polish and wax then do it! The take away here is to know that Awlgrip should not be buffed unless it's a last resort and Imron or Awlcraft 2000 can be polished but don't over do it because you only have 2.5 - 3 mils to play with...
 

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
Hey Rodd

I take it you did not go skiing today. Hopefully you got a boat fix. I worked all day on the sole and made good progress. See the link. I think I may be starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel! http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=4717 Tim R.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,759
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
It was raining up there..

And the ski cam showed a few rocks and grass areas so I figured I save the skiing for next season. That's some serious progress from the two 4X8 sheets of teak & holly I saw yesterday! How'd Kathy do on the port side?
 

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
We did not get any polishing done

We had a fairly steady mist today so she worked on cleaning the interior teak. She also made an awesome dinner. It looks like this weather will break Tuesday so we will get back to polishing(and painting) then. Tim R.
 

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
Peter D.

The majority of the effect was accomplished using 3M marine rubbing compound, a Makita 9227 buffer set to low speed and a foam pad. Rod tried many different less agressive compounds before deciding that the rubbing compound was necessary to get through the hard Imron. Tim R.
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,832
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
New Boat

My new 2007 H-36 was given a coat of wax already before I could give it the three step you mentioned for a brand new boat from the factory. Should I still give it the two polishing with fineese it II and meguires polishing and than 885 wax. Nick
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,759
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Nick you're ...

Probably fine with Finesse It II and then Collinite. Seeing as it already has the wax I'd wait a year and then do Finesse It II and Collinite #885. The shine should be decent from the factory...
 
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