On a 27-28 foot sailboat which is the better steering system; tiller or wheel. If it came down between 2 boats; one with tiller steering (which I think is inferior to a wheel) with a furling, versus a boat with wheel steering but no furling, which would be the preferred boat? Steve
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Ron Mills
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Kenneth Pfaff
Depends on your preference
There is no right or wrong answer, but what do you perfer. A tiller give you a better feel for the boat, but takes up a lot of the cockpit. For myself, I perfer a wheel. I found on my old H23.5 that in heavy weather, a tiller was a lot of work. With my current boat, an H290, the wheel is easier to use, but then is not as responsive as a tiller.
There is no right or wrong answer, but what do you perfer. A tiller give you a better feel for the boat, but takes up a lot of the cockpit. For myself, I perfer a wheel. I found on my old H23.5 that in heavy weather, a tiller was a lot of work. With my current boat, an H290, the wheel is easier to use, but then is not as responsive as a tiller.
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Gene
Choices
As a beginner I prefer a wheel as it is direct, want to go port, turn to port, etc. As far as your two boats, I would get the wheel with no furling as the furling is much easier to add on. Gene (27 Cat)
As a beginner I prefer a wheel as it is direct, want to go port, turn to port, etc. As far as your two boats, I would get the wheel with no furling as the furling is much easier to add on. Gene (27 Cat)
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JPF
Up to 30'.. I prefer a tiller.
Had a tiller on my Cat 27 and now have a wheel on my Seafarer 30. The tiller gives you a much better feel for how the boat is balanced and the sails trimmed. I liked my tiller on my cat 27 because while singlehanding, I could put it between my legs to steer while trimming the headsail. The wheel takes up less cockpit space, but in smaller boats can be difficult to get around. The wheel isolates you from heavy weather helm, reducing fatigue, but if there is too much tiller force, then the sails need to be eased, reefed, etc. Regarding furling...regardless of the steering system, this is the way to go. It's safer if the control lines are run to the cockpit, because you don't have to go foward onto a slippery, rocking deck. You have the ability to reef the headsail and you don't have to fold the jib when your'e done sailing. My two cents..and probably not worth that much. JPF
Had a tiller on my Cat 27 and now have a wheel on my Seafarer 30. The tiller gives you a much better feel for how the boat is balanced and the sails trimmed. I liked my tiller on my cat 27 because while singlehanding, I could put it between my legs to steer while trimming the headsail. The wheel takes up less cockpit space, but in smaller boats can be difficult to get around. The wheel isolates you from heavy weather helm, reducing fatigue, but if there is too much tiller force, then the sails need to be eased, reefed, etc. Regarding furling...regardless of the steering system, this is the way to go. It's safer if the control lines are run to the cockpit, because you don't have to go foward onto a slippery, rocking deck. You have the ability to reef the headsail and you don't have to fold the jib when your'e done sailing. My two cents..and probably not worth that much. JPF
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Richard
Tiller
Tiller with furling. Having a wheel for the last 2 yrs on my Cat 30 I would go back to a tiller for a few reasons. 1.A tiller gives you easier access to the control lines, sheets, the galley, etc... 2. In less than perfect conditions you can duck under a dodger to avoid the spray and rain. 3. Cost of an autopilot. 4. easier to get around the cock pit. 5. less maintance, less worry. 6. better feel for the boat 7. Personally, anything under 35' the wheel is overkill.
Tiller with furling. Having a wheel for the last 2 yrs on my Cat 30 I would go back to a tiller for a few reasons. 1.A tiller gives you easier access to the control lines, sheets, the galley, etc... 2. In less than perfect conditions you can duck under a dodger to avoid the spray and rain. 3. Cost of an autopilot. 4. easier to get around the cock pit. 5. less maintance, less worry. 6. better feel for the boat 7. Personally, anything under 35' the wheel is overkill.
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LaDonna Bubak - CatalinaOwners.com
Agree with Richard
It also depends on the type of sailing you're planning on. Performance sailing? Tiller. Long hours of heavy weather? Wheel. Daysailing? Either. I prefer a tiller cuz I have a better feel for the boat - MUCH more so than a wheel - and when I'm done for the day, I can move it out of the way for full cockpit access (important on such a small boat). LaDonna
It also depends on the type of sailing you're planning on. Performance sailing? Tiller. Long hours of heavy weather? Wheel. Daysailing? Either. I prefer a tiller cuz I have a better feel for the boat - MUCH more so than a wheel - and when I'm done for the day, I can move it out of the way for full cockpit access (important on such a small boat). LaDonna
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Bill
Look at the cost of the option
Either can be had for a price. My boat was originaly tiller but the previous owner had her fitted with an Edson wheel. I would have spent the money on the furler. Bill
Either can be had for a price. My boat was originaly tiller but the previous owner had her fitted with an Edson wheel. I would have spent the money on the furler. Bill
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David Foster
Tiller certainly gives better control
The tiller gives a much better feel of the effect of wind and water flows on the rudder. It provides immediate positive indication of the rudder angle. There is little or no backlash when reversing rudder direction. It clearly communicates when excessive rudder use is slowing the boat. For all these reasons the tiller provides the best sailing of the boat. Why not have a tiller? At some point around 30 feet, the forces on the tiller are too high to be comfortably handled by the tiller, particularly for smaller crew. A wheel provides higher mechanical advantage to solve this. Using a wheel allows the helmsman to face the front (while also limiting the position to one plane in the cockpit.) Some of us like the way they look. The space issue has two sides. A wheel permanently takes up a lot of cockpit space, while a tiller easily swings up to clear the cockpit in port. Our tiller curves up nicely to rise above our knees so we don't feel cramped by it in the cockpit, except when changing sides to come about. If you are consistently holding the tiller over the edge of the cockpit seat, then the rig needs to be balanced. With a balanced rig, the tiller stays in the middle of the cockpit 95 percent of the the time. (+- 5 degrees.) It's your boat! Consider the clear advantages for steering the boat underway, then do what you want to do! There is nothing wrong with a wheel in a 25 footer, even if I wouldn't do it! David Lady Lillie '77 h27 with a tiller
The tiller gives a much better feel of the effect of wind and water flows on the rudder. It provides immediate positive indication of the rudder angle. There is little or no backlash when reversing rudder direction. It clearly communicates when excessive rudder use is slowing the boat. For all these reasons the tiller provides the best sailing of the boat. Why not have a tiller? At some point around 30 feet, the forces on the tiller are too high to be comfortably handled by the tiller, particularly for smaller crew. A wheel provides higher mechanical advantage to solve this. Using a wheel allows the helmsman to face the front (while also limiting the position to one plane in the cockpit.) Some of us like the way they look. The space issue has two sides. A wheel permanently takes up a lot of cockpit space, while a tiller easily swings up to clear the cockpit in port. Our tiller curves up nicely to rise above our knees so we don't feel cramped by it in the cockpit, except when changing sides to come about. If you are consistently holding the tiller over the edge of the cockpit seat, then the rig needs to be balanced. With a balanced rig, the tiller stays in the middle of the cockpit 95 percent of the the time. (+- 5 degrees.) It's your boat! Consider the clear advantages for steering the boat underway, then do what you want to do! There is nothing wrong with a wheel in a 25 footer, even if I wouldn't do it! David Lady Lillie '77 h27 with a tiller
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Peter Brennan
We had a wheel
in a Dawson 26, which was a center cockpit boat. That boat was small enough for a tiller and the NorSea 27 uses a tiller that arches over the aft cabin. But still, I preferred the wheel. Our O'Day 37 has a humongous wheel installed by a previous owner. I think it's 60 inches in diameter. Really cuts the cockpit in two. But my! Such leverage, even though when properly trimmed the boat practically sails hands off. The autopilot, after all, has to operate on a much smaller leverage its wheel being opnly a third of the main wheel. I don't find any problem communicating boat feel through the wheel. On the hook, we have a moubnt on the stanchion and can remove the wheel completely to open up the cockpit. If we really want to go tiller, we can. The O'Day has an excellent emergency tiller that fits a slot on top of the rudder post and provides plety of leverage. But you would have to sail the boat from inside the aft cabin. Didn't they used to have something called a whipstave that controlled the rudder and was operated by a tillerman below decks who could not see out?
in a Dawson 26, which was a center cockpit boat. That boat was small enough for a tiller and the NorSea 27 uses a tiller that arches over the aft cabin. But still, I preferred the wheel. Our O'Day 37 has a humongous wheel installed by a previous owner. I think it's 60 inches in diameter. Really cuts the cockpit in two. But my! Such leverage, even though when properly trimmed the boat practically sails hands off. The autopilot, after all, has to operate on a much smaller leverage its wheel being opnly a third of the main wheel. I don't find any problem communicating boat feel through the wheel. On the hook, we have a moubnt on the stanchion and can remove the wheel completely to open up the cockpit. If we really want to go tiller, we can. The O'Day has an excellent emergency tiller that fits a slot on top of the rudder post and provides plety of leverage. But you would have to sail the boat from inside the aft cabin. Didn't they used to have something called a whipstave that controlled the rudder and was operated by a tillerman below decks who could not see out?
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Dennis Thomas
Going in circles
When I was learning to sail I would crew with a fellow in various race series. Early in my education he would leave to steer at the wheel while he adjusted sails, planned tactics, etc. I had only sailed with a tiller and not much of that. In one race, it finally happened. He was trying to really pinch up and I didn’t know enough to realize that he was adding weather helm. With the wheel, I just keep turning to stay on course. Finally, I couldn’t turn any further and we rounded up. Did a full 360! No wonder he couldn’t get his expected speed. I had the rudder almost sideways in the water and didn’t feel anything through the wheel. On my own 25’ Catalina we enjoyed being able to get the tiller out of the way when on the hook or at the dock. On my current boat, a 36’ Catalina, we are talking about getting a mount on the stern rail where we could store the wheel to clear some cockpit space. It’s not often, but from time to time, the cockpit gets crowded with friends and it would be nice to be able to move around more easily. With that said, I would take a wheel on anything over about 27’ because of the forces and fatigue factors. If you’re going to be racing, get a tiller, cruising go with the wheel.
When I was learning to sail I would crew with a fellow in various race series. Early in my education he would leave to steer at the wheel while he adjusted sails, planned tactics, etc. I had only sailed with a tiller and not much of that. In one race, it finally happened. He was trying to really pinch up and I didn’t know enough to realize that he was adding weather helm. With the wheel, I just keep turning to stay on course. Finally, I couldn’t turn any further and we rounded up. Did a full 360! No wonder he couldn’t get his expected speed. I had the rudder almost sideways in the water and didn’t feel anything through the wheel. On my own 25’ Catalina we enjoyed being able to get the tiller out of the way when on the hook or at the dock. On my current boat, a 36’ Catalina, we are talking about getting a mount on the stern rail where we could store the wheel to clear some cockpit space. It’s not often, but from time to time, the cockpit gets crowded with friends and it would be nice to be able to move around more easily. With that said, I would take a wheel on anything over about 27’ because of the forces and fatigue factors. If you’re going to be racing, get a tiller, cruising go with the wheel.
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Chris Hughes
Tiller is more reliable
You don't see an emergency wheel on boats with a tiller but you do see an emergency tiller on wheeled boats. Take a look at the Around Alone boats (see attached link). When reliability really counts - speak softly and hold on to the "big stick".
You don't see an emergency wheel on boats with a tiller but you do see an emergency tiller on wheeled boats. Take a look at the Around Alone boats (see attached link). When reliability really counts - speak softly and hold on to the "big stick".
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Dakota Jim Russell
As the boat gets bigger, wheel becomes the choice
One must really look at the position that the skipper sails when using a tiller and when using a wheel. In a small boat, the tiller is the obvious choice. But in a large boat, one often needs to sit high, or stand for adequate viewing forward. A 27-28 is probably the breaking point between the two and the choice becomes personal. I had a wheel on a H30T and now a H340, and had the tiller on a Hobie 18 and a Catalina 25. With that experience I prefer the wheel.
One must really look at the position that the skipper sails when using a tiller and when using a wheel. In a small boat, the tiller is the obvious choice. But in a large boat, one often needs to sit high, or stand for adequate viewing forward. A 27-28 is probably the breaking point between the two and the choice becomes personal. I had a wheel on a H30T and now a H340, and had the tiller on a Hobie 18 and a Catalina 25. With that experience I prefer the wheel.
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Rob R.
Pure Opinion...
Sail them both, and buy the one that you feel more comfortable. I have a tiller, and I enjoy its sensitivity and acute sense of rudder position. You can really feel the rudder stall out, as well. I also enjoy the reliability of the tiller - generally they just don't break. My buddy, however, also has a C-27, and he broke his during a storm. Even with the broken tiller, he was able to steer the boat though. But... these are mostly my opion. Sail 'em both, and discover what you prefer. Now, Roller Furling... Man, have I got an opinion on that!!! (great stuff)
Sail them both, and buy the one that you feel more comfortable. I have a tiller, and I enjoy its sensitivity and acute sense of rudder position. You can really feel the rudder stall out, as well. I also enjoy the reliability of the tiller - generally they just don't break. My buddy, however, also has a C-27, and he broke his during a storm. Even with the broken tiller, he was able to steer the boat though. But... these are mostly my opion. Sail 'em both, and discover what you prefer. Now, Roller Furling... Man, have I got an opinion on that!!! (great stuff)
Which one are you going to be able to dump
Steve: which one are you going to able to dump when you are ready to move up or out. I do not think that there is any question that it is going to be a wheel. I agree with all the previous posts about moving around the cockpit, getting the tiller out of the way while you are in port etc etc. The only real downside is when you have guests aboard. It is a real pain in the ass the sail in a small cockpit with guests. Move here, move there, move back. You know that you can purchase a HC50 with a tiller!
Steve: which one are you going to able to dump when you are ready to move up or out. I do not think that there is any question that it is going to be a wheel. I agree with all the previous posts about moving around the cockpit, getting the tiller out of the way while you are in port etc etc. The only real downside is when you have guests aboard. It is a real pain in the ass the sail in a small cockpit with guests. Move here, move there, move back. You know that you can purchase a HC50 with a tiller!
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Chris Gonzales
Archives
The archives are great on this site and have lots of opinions on just about everything including this topic. I posted this myself in response to your same question. I have a 36 now and agree with the earlier post that a wheel at this size seems to work well. But I still miss the feel and fun of a tiller. By the way, I agree with the statement Steve Dion made (he's a pretty smart guy/sailor) about resale value of the boat. "Everyone" wants 1)diesel and 2)wheel. Archive: Over the years I had a Capri 25 and Catalina 22, both with tillers. Eventually I purchased a C25 with a wheel. I was so excited to FINALLY have wheel steering. It was going to look and feel so COOL. The fact was, though, that I quickly found I didn't like the feel of it at all. You just can't feel the boat through a wheel like you can a tiller. Also, I didn't like the room the wheel took up in the cockpit and I prefered the tiller with an extension when sitting high on the weather side. I now have a C30 with a very nice Edson wheel. It came with the boat. But if it didn't have the wheel I certainly would have purchased her anyway. I suppose wheels are great for large boats but on the 4 I have owned, including my 30, I opt for the tiller! My suggestion is to sail your 27 for a while and get used to handling her with the tiller. Then steer a buddies boat that is wheel equipped. Bet you feel the same way about the tiller as many of us do after that. Let us know what you do. Chris
The archives are great on this site and have lots of opinions on just about everything including this topic. I posted this myself in response to your same question. I have a 36 now and agree with the earlier post that a wheel at this size seems to work well. But I still miss the feel and fun of a tiller. By the way, I agree with the statement Steve Dion made (he's a pretty smart guy/sailor) about resale value of the boat. "Everyone" wants 1)diesel and 2)wheel. Archive: Over the years I had a Capri 25 and Catalina 22, both with tillers. Eventually I purchased a C25 with a wheel. I was so excited to FINALLY have wheel steering. It was going to look and feel so COOL. The fact was, though, that I quickly found I didn't like the feel of it at all. You just can't feel the boat through a wheel like you can a tiller. Also, I didn't like the room the wheel took up in the cockpit and I prefered the tiller with an extension when sitting high on the weather side. I now have a C30 with a very nice Edson wheel. It came with the boat. But if it didn't have the wheel I certainly would have purchased her anyway. I suppose wheels are great for large boats but on the 4 I have owned, including my 30, I opt for the tiller! My suggestion is to sail your 27 for a while and get used to handling her with the tiller. Then steer a buddies boat that is wheel equipped. Bet you feel the same way about the tiller as many of us do after that. Let us know what you do. Chris
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Rob R.
Chris, how do you like the 36?
Having owned a 30 and a 25, what do you think of the 36. How much more does it cost to keep it running, comparatively? Do you sail it as much as the smaller boats? Most importantly, is it as much fun, more fun, or less fun to sail? I am curious! Rob
Having owned a 30 and a 25, what do you think of the 36. How much more does it cost to keep it running, comparatively? Do you sail it as much as the smaller boats? Most importantly, is it as much fun, more fun, or less fun to sail? I am curious! Rob
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Chris Gonzales
More is better?
We are enjoying this "new" yacht. My wife and I purchased the C36 because of the wonderful cabin room below and a desire to have a heavier, safer boat. Being an '87, she has lots of real oiled teak below and much storage. This boat was in almost new condition in many ways and after having previously deciding to purchase new, we changed our minds and could not pass up such a nice boat at close to half the price. Few things needed maintenance except the sails were original and she had the Hood single line furler (push-pull) and I knew we would change those. This furler became a problem later. Our very first sail was on the day the "Tall Ships" were to come into SF bay. I think it was the 28th of August. We set out across the "slot" on the way to the delta and encountered average winds of 35 knots + and sustained gusts to 50. Now, I have sailed SF bay for 14 years but on this day experienced the most difficult conditions ever. The chop was 3' and even 6' at times. Bay chop is much worse than normal ocean swells. We were sailng fairly close to wind and we had lots of water flying over the bow. It was almost like someone was spraying you with a nozzle on a water hose. The wind was howling through the rigging and we were not too happy. We were definitely not dressed for the occasion. We were both in polo shirt and shorts. Why? In Alameda it was so warm and calm. No one, not even the weather service or Coast Guard expected such conditions. There were 2 dismastings on the bay. We were very close to one and saw it happen. Our 36 was great. Never did I feel the boat was difficult to handle or out of control. We were both rather anxious in the situation but always felt in control. Now, bigger is better? I have never had more fun sailing than on my Capri 25. Loved the tiller and the feel of the boat. Similar to a J boat, she was so fun but could be difficult in similar conditions. I will never enjoy sailing more than then. It's like a sports car ride. It feels so good. But the 36 is bigger and safer, like a Town Car. Better yet, an STS. Especially in SF bay conditions. Now I can have my comfort and still get around at 7 kts.
We are enjoying this "new" yacht. My wife and I purchased the C36 because of the wonderful cabin room below and a desire to have a heavier, safer boat. Being an '87, she has lots of real oiled teak below and much storage. This boat was in almost new condition in many ways and after having previously deciding to purchase new, we changed our minds and could not pass up such a nice boat at close to half the price. Few things needed maintenance except the sails were original and she had the Hood single line furler (push-pull) and I knew we would change those. This furler became a problem later. Our very first sail was on the day the "Tall Ships" were to come into SF bay. I think it was the 28th of August. We set out across the "slot" on the way to the delta and encountered average winds of 35 knots + and sustained gusts to 50. Now, I have sailed SF bay for 14 years but on this day experienced the most difficult conditions ever. The chop was 3' and even 6' at times. Bay chop is much worse than normal ocean swells. We were sailng fairly close to wind and we had lots of water flying over the bow. It was almost like someone was spraying you with a nozzle on a water hose. The wind was howling through the rigging and we were not too happy. We were definitely not dressed for the occasion. We were both in polo shirt and shorts. Why? In Alameda it was so warm and calm. No one, not even the weather service or Coast Guard expected such conditions. There were 2 dismastings on the bay. We were very close to one and saw it happen. Our 36 was great. Never did I feel the boat was difficult to handle or out of control. We were both rather anxious in the situation but always felt in control. Now, bigger is better? I have never had more fun sailing than on my Capri 25. Loved the tiller and the feel of the boat. Similar to a J boat, she was so fun but could be difficult in similar conditions. I will never enjoy sailing more than then. It's like a sports car ride. It feels so good. But the 36 is bigger and safer, like a Town Car. Better yet, an STS. Especially in SF bay conditions. Now I can have my comfort and still get around at 7 kts.
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